Wiring for Trickle Charger and Auxiliary Power

[RossKean]

Huh? My heated vests draw about 3 amps each at full toasty. Or are you specifically referencing the air pump since it is the highest draw?

I have Tourmaster Synergy 2.0 heated jacket liner and heated gloves which connect to it. (It also has a connector for heated pants liner which I do not have). The controller cycles on and off over a approx. 5 second period but power is either 0 or 100%. The following chart is the power requirements for Tourmaster gear. Jacket liner is 5.4 amps and gloves are another 2 amps. (Pants would be another 3.8 amps, insoles 1 amp, if you have them)
Definitely too much for a 5 amp pigtail. (As much as 12.2A total.) Since all is interconnected, a single fused circuit is normally used with a single or dual controller. Note: I frequently use the jacket liner. Gloves less often.

https://www.motorcyclegear.com/neml_images/heated_gear/synergy_owners_manual.pdf

 

[Bumppa]

I'm looking for suggestions on how and where to run a fused pigtail from the battery. I would use this to connect a trickle charger or to supply power for a tire pump, etc. If the battery was under the seat it would be straight forward - remove the seat and pull out the wire. I want the wire to be hidden and protected from the weather. Thanks for any help.

I mounted brackets both on my '05 and my current '14 ES. A fellow that used to frequent these forums was making them. When the ES came out he sent me prototypes to try. The left side was a little tricky. Used a fused Powerlett product to connect to the battery. BMW plugs. I really like helmet locks so I opted for the version that uses a Yamaha lock that my local locksmith keyed to match the ignition key. I have one one on each side and have used two heated jackets with no problem. And my trickle charger is connected at this moment, given that is is 6 frickin degrees F here.

Lets see if I can post some pictures.

 

[user 99198]

I mounted brackets both on my '05 and my current '14 ES. A fellow that used to frequent these forums was making them. When the ES came out he sent me prototypes to try. The left side was a little tricky. Used a fused Powerlett product to connect to the battery. BMW plugs. I really like helmet locks so I opted for the version that uses a Yamaha lock that my local locksmith keyed to match the ignition key. I have one one on each side and have used two heated jackets with no problem. And my trickle charger is connected at this moment, given that is is 6 frickin degrees F here.

Lets see if I can post some pictures.
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I think you guys are over thinking this. I have used the standard pig tail that comes with either the Battery Tender or Gerbings and the ONLY thing I have done differently is to put in a heavier fuse for the occasional air compressor use. Never ever an issue after more than a dozen bikes. I don't think I would try to jump it though. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rbentnail]

I have Tourmaster Synergy 2.0 heated jacket liner and heated gloves which connect to it. (It also has a connector for heated pants liner which I do not have). The controller cycles on and off over a approx. 5 second period but power is either 0 or 100%. The following chart is the power requirements for Tourmaster gear. Jacket liner is 5.4 amps and gloves are another 2 amps. (Pants would be another 3.8 amps, insoles 1 amp, if you have them)
Definitely too much for a 5 amp pigtail. (As much as 12.2A total.) Since all is interconnected, a single fused circuit is normally used with a single or dual controller. Note: I frequently use the jacket liner. Gloves less often.

https://www.motorcyclegear.com/neml_images/heated_gear/synergy_owners_manual.pdf
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Geez, if I were going to have all that I'd wiring in a small PLC with variable selection inputs to rotate when each load has power supplied to it. Then the max load would be based on only the largest amp draw and not all of them potentially added together. Seriously, if you NEED all that just take the car.

 

[user 99198]

FWIW, I have a full heated Gerbings set up that I bought new in 2006. Jacket and pants on one half of a dual temp controller. The socks and gloves are on the other half. All of this running on the single Gerbings lead directly from the battery. Never any issues. Just saying

 

[RossKean]

Geez, if I were going to have all that I'd wiring in a small PLC with variable selection inputs to rotate when each load has power supplied to it. Then the max load would be based on only the largest amp draw and not all of them potentially added together. Seriously, if you NEED all that just take the car.

Lots of times I have heated jacket liner and gloves that plug into it. Not a big deal but draws up to 7.4A in the "on" part of the duty cycle. Significantly more than the 5A SAE pigtail. I don't use heated pants liners or insoles but those would raise the total even higher. A typical tire inflator draws up to 10A or possibly more. Using a larger fuse is an acceptable solution but only if the wire itself is sufficient for the load. Wire gauge needs to be checked for ampacity rating. Since these devices are interconnected, the single fused circuit is the easiest way to manage it.
I have a Fuzeblock on my FJR with dedicated circuit for heated gear. I have an appropriately fused dedicated Powerlet socket on my BMW F700GS. Wire gauge is more than sufficient.

 

[torch]

Lots of times I have heated jacket liner and gloves that plug into it. Not a big deal but draws up to 7.4A in the "on" part of the duty cycle.

Not exactly. The PWM controller will deliver the full 12v to the clothing during the on part of the duty cycle, but won't necessarily be drawing 7.4A. At max duty cycle it will probably be drawing close to that (within, say, 5%), but at lower duty cycles (ie: less heat) it will be drawing a similar percentage of current from the bike. EG: at 50% duty cycle, it will draw somewhere around 3.5 amps. That's the beauty of PWM controllers compared to resistive controllers.

In any event: DO NOT attempt to use an outlet fed from a PWM heat controller to connect a battery charger! Or supply an air compressor, even at max duty cycle. In the first case, it won't work and may damage the controller. In the second it will probably damage the controller.

I do use my rear SAE connector for either a charger or passenger vest, BUT I have an inline controller for the passenger. The connector is simply a fused connection to the battery, the inline controller or charger plugs into that. My front connector is dedicated to my vest and fed from a dash-mounted controller.

 

[RossKean]

Not exactly. The PWM controller will deliver the full 12v to the clothing during the on part of the duty cycle, but won't necessarily be drawing 7.4A. At max duty cycle it will probably be drawing close to that (within, say, 5%), but at lower duty cycles (ie: less heat) it will be drawing a similar percentage of current from the bike. EG: at 50% duty cycle, it will draw somewhere around 3.5 amps. That's the beauty of PWM controllers compared to resistive controllers.

In any event: DO NOT attempt to use an outlet fed from a PWM heat controller to connect a battery charger! Or supply an air compressor, even at max duty cycle. In the first case, it won't work and may damage the controller. In the second it will probably damage the controller.

I do use my rear SAE connector for either a charger or passenger vest, BUT I have an inline controller for the passenger. The connector is simply a fused connection to the battery, the inline controller or charger plugs into that. My front connector is dedicated to my vest and fed from a dash-mounted controller.

The controllers are PWM, I believe, although some of the literature describes them as rheostats (definitely not). There are 5 distinct settings and the knob is a multi-position switch (6 including off) rather than a potentiometer.
I was mistaken about the ones on my Tourmaster stuff - I thought they were a proportional controller with a on-off duty cycle more like a stove element controller than a PWM. I mixed it up with a controller I had (built-in by previous owner) on another bike which was indeed 100% on or off on a duty cycle of approximately 5 seconds.

I would like to see exactly what the Tourmaster is doing but don't have an oscilloscope available. I rarely run it above the "3" setting, so I could probably get away with running it with a smaller fuse assuming the PWM frequency is reasonably high.

 

[torch]

5 seconds pulse width? Wow, I guess that technically still belongs in the PWM category but yeah, even the longest length of nichrome won't have enough induction to keep the current down on that puppy.

Even without a scope, you could get a rough idea what kind of controller you have using a volt meter. Plug the clothing in with the controller in-line and measure the voltage. If the pulses are 5 seconds duration you'll be able to count them! But if it's a more traditional PWM frequency of many KHz, then the voltage should remain relatively stable at the various settings (give or take a few tenths, depending on the frequency response of your meter). If it's resistive, the voltage will follow the settings (ie: low voltage at low settings, rising as you crank up the heat).

(Or, if you are ever in Muskoka, stop by. I have several scopes to choose from)

 

[user 99198]

5 seconds pulse width? Wow, I guess that technically still belongs in the PWM category but yeah, even the longest length of nichrome won't have enough induction to keep the current down on that puppy.

Even without a scope, you could get a rough idea what kind of controller you have using a volt meter. Plug the clothing in with the controller in-line and measure the voltage. If the pulses are 5 seconds duration you'll be able to count them! But if it's a more traditional PWM frequency of many KHz, then the voltage should remain relatively stable at the various settings (give or take a few tenths, depending on the frequency response of your meter). If it's resistive, the voltage will follow the settings (ie: low voltage at low settings, rising as you crank up the heat).

(Or, if you are ever in Muskoka, stop by. I have several scopes to choose from)

Can you imagine the outcome if these guys channeled their energy into curing cancer?!

 

[RossKean]

5 seconds pulse width? Wow, I guess that technically still belongs in the PWM category but yeah, even the longest length of nichrome won't have enough induction to keep the current down on that puppy.

The 5 second one was the built-in proportional controller on a previous bike. I never actually checked it with a meter although that seemed to be what it was doing based upon the LED indicator lamps. Proportional on/off as opposed to actual PWM, as far as I could tell - no literature or measurements. I always set it to 100% and used the separate Tourmaster controllers.
Just for fun, I am going to check voltage on the current Tourmaster setup - in both AC and DC modes. Meter has a frequency function (for AC) - I assume it would work for a PWM DC output... I'll give it a try sometime.

(Or, if you are ever in Muskoka, stop by. I have several scopes to choose from)

Definitely a better way to check it but if I am in the Muskoka area (often pass through on the way to visit daughter in Winnipeg in the summer), I am unlikely to be traveling with heated gear.

 

[torch]

That could work, depending on the frequency response of the meter. Some will also measure the duty cycle.

I always carry the electric vest. It doesn't take much space in the luggage and can be a real boon if caught by surprise. I vividly recall one particular instance. I was working as a rescue swimmer at the Canadian Waterski Championships and had been in the water all day. It was unseasonably cool, things ran late and the temperature plummeted when the sun went down. Still damp and shivering 20 minutes into a 2-1/2 hour ride home, I remembered the vest was still in the luggage. Made the rest of the journey much more comfortable.