Woman passenger dies after bike hit from behind on Oregon coast

[madmike2]

I think reflective material on your body and helmet- things that make you look bigger, do a lot more for you than blinky LEDs.

I've heard it said many different ways...

The best defensive tool you have in your arsenal lives between your ears. Hopefully you have it connected to your eyes, your right wrist and your right foot so that you can execute (put into action) whatever evasive maneuver you choose to save your motorcycle or your life.

The hyper lights won't save you if you aren't aware and participating in your own escape. You can't put as many lights on your bike as the Police departments have on their vehicles, and officers are still hit. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle as the various DOT/Road Departments do, and highway workers are still struck and killed. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle nor can you make it appear as large as an 18-wheeler or a Greyhound bus, and I've heard people say, "Officer, I didn't see him".

 

[bikerskier]

And the dumb *** who hit the bike WILL say "I didn't see them", the courts WILL give several slaps on the wrist with a limp noodle and the poor woman WILL still be very dead, and the rider WILL be crippled to some degree, and the ******* beat WILL go on and nothing WILL change. Because we are overun with dumb ***** who can't find their *** with both hands, should still be stuck to the bottom of the gene pool and are oblivious to the world around them, with their mouth hanging open and stupid dribbling out of their noses.

Damn, that feels a bit better...

 

[zenwhipper]

Frankly, I can't believe the posts in this topic that say "...lights aren't gonna do you any good'. Please tell me this is not what some people believe.

There's a freakin reason we see the sun and don't see the new moon. Light my comrades. Out there, life is a game of inches and lumens to me. I'll hedge my bets with a pair of $79 LEDs on the back. I want to be visible on my bike plain and simple.

Ferchristsakes!

ZW

 

[SkooterG]

Frankly, I can't believe the posts in this topic that say "...lights aren't gonna do you any good'. Please tell me this is not what some people believe.

There's a freakin reason we see the sun and don't see the new moon. Light my comrades. Out there, life is a game of inches and lumens to me. I'll hedge my bets with a pair of $79 LEDs on the back. I want to be visible on my bike plain and simple.

Ferchristsakes!

ZW

WTF do you know anyways?!

You're just a dog in a Santa hat ferchristakes!

 

[madmike2]

Frankly, I can't believe the posts in this topic that say "...lights aren't gonna do you any good'. Please tell me this is not what some people believe.

There's a freakin reason we see the sun and don't see the new moon. Light my comrades. Out there, life is a game of inches and lumens to me. I'll hedge my bets with a pair of $79 LEDs on the back. I want to be visible on my bike plain and simple.

Ferchristsakes!

ZW

There used to be a point in time when members could offer differing points of view without taking it perpsonally and without responding with personal attacks. Have those days gone by the wayside?

IF you could light up your bike like the sun.

The couple who was rear-ended were riding a Goldwing. The Goldwing comes OEM with more lighting than most would add to an FJR.

Their Goldwing with rider and passenger has a rear profile roughly 25%-30% larger than our FJRs.

The perpetrator didn't see the intersection or the turning vehicle or he wouldn't have struck them with the force (momentum) that caused these injuries.

Nothing short of a force field would have prevented this driver from striking anyone stopped for traffic or turning. I think he was probably driving "distracted" (cell phone, computer, changing radio stations, day dreaming, whatever).

Another thought is that some people put the hyper lights on their bikes thinking that the lights will protect them, and they won't. They (and other technology) might help you be more visible in certain situations, but the only thing that is between a rider and tragedy is awareness of each situation.

As I understand the story, the rider in the post that opens this thread was turning and was struck from behind. We don't know if he had his signal on (a blinking amber light) that the car driver didn't see. Should that be the case, hyper lights or any other auxiliary lighting wouldn't have helped.

Nothing can save you from an inattentive cager. I'll admit that any lighting can aid in making you visible to someone who is actually looking or who cares. I cannot accept that it will prevent a careless or distracted driver from "taking you out".

 

[radman]

I've heard it said many different ways...The best defensive tool you have in your arsenal lives between your ears. Hopefully you have it connected to your eyes, your right wrist and your right foot so that you can execute (put into action) whatever evasive maneuver you choose to save your motorcycle or your life.

The hyper lights won't save you if you aren't aware and participating in your own escape. You can't put as many lights on your bike as the Police departments have on their vehicles, and officers are still hit. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle as the various DOT/Road Departments do, and highway workers are still struck and killed. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle nor can you make it appear as large as an 18-wheeler or a Greyhound bus, and I've heard people say, "Officer, I didn't see him".

+180, GUNNY, etc, etc. And, for what it's worth, 18 wheelers and buses get *** ended too. Firm believer that any rider that gets hit participated in the activity, however minutely.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Apparently? -- some of you guys aren't into "Passive Safety"?

Passive Safety is the current darling of American motoring -- "What can we do do improve our odds -- without actually having to know anything?"

Extra lights, blinking lights, seat-belts, air-bags, ABS, traction control, dynamic vehicle control, bigger vehicles, heavier vehicles, (deer whisltes) -- ad nauseum. All efforts to keep drivers/riders safe without any, actual, personal involvement (smarts).

If you're not into Passive Safety -- You're runnin' against 'conventional wisdom'..... :huh:

 

[radman]

He said, turning right at Politics Ave, just before entering that dark, dirty neighborhood.........

 

[zenwhipper]

(Ok... gotta keep my head about me on this one it seems like. But...)

First and foremost we all talk about risk on a motorcycle. Risk is an easy formula to calculate:

[SIZE=14pt]PxC=R[/SIZE]

Probability of the event X the Consequences of the event = RISK

Many things we do when we ride and many pieces of motorcycle equipement in regard to safety all function to lower one or the other of the variables P or C. Lighting would help lower the probability of the event. A helmet helps lower the consequences of the event. Its pretty easy to understand it if you look at it this way. Don't like formulas, then I think we can all agree intuitively, lighting helps. Well, maybe not and that is why we are having this discussion.

Now- there are many perceived examples in the specific that may at first glance seem to violate the generalized principles. Ok, so the Gold Wing has a ton of light on the rear. And he was rear ended. You cannot conclude, just from this that lights don't work.

We as riders, must have an arsenal of skills, knowledge and equipment out there to lower our risk of riding. We take advanced rider courses, get the best helmet money can buy, add armor to our gear, add items to make us more conspicuous, and even get loud pipes to lower our risk. Some of these work better than others - but more is typically better when you're trying to be safe.

Scott

 

[madmike2]

Apparently? -- some of you guys aren't into "Passive Safety"?Passive Safety is the current darling of American motoring -- "What can we do do improve our odds -- without actually having to know anything?"

Extra lights, blinking lights, seat-belts, air-bags, ABS, traction control, dynamic vehicle control, bigger vehicles, heavier vehicles, (deer whisltes) -- ad nauseum. All efforts to keep drivers/riders safe without any, actual, personal involvement (smarts).

If you're not into Passive Safety -- You're runnin' against 'conventional wisdom'..... :huh:

Exactly....I love "tilting at windmills"!

Passive Safety has begotten passive drivers. I say remove everything from the current crop of vehicles...no radios, CD players, cell phones, electronic gadgetry, etc.

Leave safety items like seat belts, etc., and create a scenario whereby the driver must be connected and engaged in actually driving and controlling the vehicle rather than emotionally and intellectually assuming the mindset that their automobile is an extension of their family room or office.

I've heard it said many different ways...The best defensive tool you have in your arsenal lives between your ears. Hopefully you have it connected to your eyes, your right wrist and your right foot so that you can execute (put into action) whatever evasive maneuver you choose to save your motorcycle or your life.

The hyper lights won't save you if you aren't aware and participating in your own escape. You can't put as many lights on your bike as the Police departments have on their vehicles, and officers are still hit. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle as the various DOT/Road Departments do, and highway workers are still struck and killed. You can't put as many lights on your motorcycle nor can you make it appear as large as an 18-wheeler or a Greyhound bus, and I've heard people say, "Officer, I didn't see him".

+180, GUNNY, etc, etc. And, for what it's worth, 18 wheelers and buses get *** ended too. Firm believer that any rider that gets hit participated in the activity, however minutely.

That's why we read books and take courses to improve our own abilities and open our minds and senses to what is taking place around us while we are riding our bikes (or as an extension, driving our cars).

How many of us trust the car behind us at an intersection? I've seen motorcyclists choose the worst possible placement when stopped and just shake my head. One of the questions during my recent adventure at Streetmasters (and I'm sure, part of the MSF course) was, "Why should you leave your bike in gear when you come to a stop at an intersection?" The answer assumes you are watching behind you in order to elude an errant following vehicle.

I still maintain (as does ScooterG) that lights won't help you. If a distracted car driver doesn't see a truck or bus (I'm a commercial driver, Class A with TPX and M1 endorsements), there are not enough lights to cause or force them to recognize you.

They MIGHT help an approaching driver notice that you have changed speed if he can calculate his closing distance based on the spread (distance between) your lights...much the same issue most drivers have in calculating our approach speed from a frontal view. The spacial difference creates an illusion that we are farther away than actual measured distance. This has been written and reported by different authors.

That being said, everyone should do whatever they think is going to help. Just don't rely on any technology that assumes another rider or driver is going to see and recognize approaching danger and act accordingly. Take responsibility for yourself and for them so you can live to tell about it.

(Ok... gotta keep my head about me on this one it seems like. But...)
First and foremost we all talk about risk on a motorcycle. Risk is an easy formula to calculate:

[SIZE=14pt]PxC=R[/SIZE]

Probability of the event X the Consequences of the event = RISK

Actually, my take on your formula it thus:

Probability=Risk Every time I ride there is probability, that's why I double check my mental state and use parking lot drills to assess my physical state....to be sure I am prepared to recognize and avoid every probability by using my thought processes and muscle memory that I retain from practice drills. That is the only way I can reduce the probability to an intellectually controllable level so that I ride at all.

Consequences I try to mitigate by wearing the best riding attire I can and the best helmet and gloves

 

[Sherman]

But I don't think Hyper-Lite's do squat in increasing visibility. Just my oberservations from riding behind them at times.

You must be absolutely blind. :blind:

This is one of my big bugaboos, getting rear-ended, hyperlites go a long way to increasing visibility day or night.

How can you miss the irritating blinking?

dougc

Holy crap - you got dougc to post!!! That should win you a prize.

I have the Kisan tailblazers and get flashed sometimes.

...as in headlights.

er...car headlights with lightbulbs in 'em.

 

[Silver Penguin]

I still maintain that the hyperlites help, as does brightly colored riding gear. For some drivers, there is nothing other than getting out of their way that can prevent them hitting you. My Mom used to say 'There is none so blind as they who will not see'. For other drivers, who are actually looking at you, something out of the ordinary such as bright flashing lights, will help jolt them into actually SEEING you.

Jill

 

[dougc]

I agree that the best defense to getting rear ended is what's between your ears. To that end I always watch mirrors and leave an escape route.

My point is that I've received numerous comments from following riders about how much more visible, in both day and night time situations, my FJR is since adding hyperlights that include tail, stop, and turn signal functions. True they are small but they are also much brighter than stock FJR rear lighting.

I have also added quite a bit of retro-reflective material to the *** end of my ride.

dougc

 

[David C]

I've got one of These mounted just above my marker plate. So bright it's almost irritating, but nobody can say they didn't see me.

How difficult was it to mount this light? How did you tie it in to the brake light assembly? Any pictures? Thanks

David

 

[SkooterG]

My point is that I've received numerous comments from following riders about how much more visible, in both day and night time situations, my FJR is since adding hyperlights that include tail, stop, and turn signal functions. True they are small but they are also much brighter than stock FJR rear lighting.

Dude. They are just being nice.

It's your big butt that increases your visibility a thousand fold.

:****: :****:

 

[madmike2]

I agree that the best defense to getting rear ended is what's between your ears. To that end I always watch mirrors and leave an escape route.
My point is that I've received numerous comments from following riders about how much more visible, in both day and night time situations, my FJR is since adding hyperlights that include tail, stop, and turn signal functions. True they are small but they are also much brighter than stock FJR rear lighting.

I have also added quite a bit of retro-reflective material to the *** end of my ride.

dougc

While I agree you are more visible to other riders (because the stinking hyper lights flashing in our face is irritating as all "heck"), other riders are actually LOOKING for motorcycles and you in particular because you're their "lead dog".

I too have the reflector material on my top case and side cases because I know we disappear in the darkness (I leave for work @ 0415-0430) and the reflective material "lights me up" to the point cagers will slow down and try to figure out what I am. That's a good thing!

I don't know how one would do a test to see if hyper lights truly warn brain-numbed distracted and disconnected cage drivers who can't see a truck or bus stopped in front of them. Again I make the point that Policemen get hit while writing tickets or at the scene of an accident and highway workers inside a coned area with flashing yellow caution lights. While its likely that these incidents are more a case of target fixation, I don't know that I want a normal cage driver fixating on my "6" if I'm stopped at a signal, stop sign or stop and go traffic. At some point they could become hypnotized and even more oblivious than normal

There's simply no way to actually prove either position (like my personal experience with Kevlar mesh did for me). Everyone should do what they want.....and trust NO technology or "farkle" to save your bacon. You are more in charge of your own destiny than anything you will add to your bike.