you two guy's interpretation on model comparisons!

[Cdogman]

Made this thread for Howie and FJR RObert so they wont get in trouble........ for highjacking

Howie sed

I had to look...MSRP web prices

ST1300 = $14,399

FJR1300A = $13,799

ST1300ABS = $15,499

FJR1300AE = $15,599

Damn, that REALLY shows what a value the FJR is...only a $100 more than a motorcycle half its worth.

Seriously though, I was very surprised to find the FJR more than the ST. Some of you guys have spouted the ST's higher price for so long I was convinced. Guess it's true...don't believe everything you read on the Internet. smile.gif

FJRRobert Sed

And about $7000 cheaper than the BMW things....

I need to look into an IBA approved 4.8g setup for my '06 or just keep to running some smaller rides for a while...

Then along came dunhamg and he sed

The problem is you are comparing the wrong prices. Here would be the correct comparison.

FJR1300A = $13,799

ST1300ABS = $15,499

Since the FJR1300A has ABS and the ST does not have the electric shift option. The FJR is $1700 less.

Then Howie sed

But, but, but....

If you compare the top-of-the-line FJR with the top-of-the-line ST, then my numbers work.

Using your comparison, which is 100% legitimate, then the ST1300 standard is an orphan with no comparison in the marketplace, so at $14,399, it is NO bargain at all, making the ST1300ABS, at $15,499, the "Stupid Buy of the Decade".

Honda product planners may be ignorant, but they're not stupid. I wouldn't be at all surprised seeing a completely revamped ST, or possibly an entirely new model, in the next year or so, ala Kawasaki.



I say the FJR with the mostest has to be compared to the ST1300 with the mostest.

Feej Wins!! Hands down.

Not Feej's fault it is the inly one with that option, web havta start takin things off the beemer too if we adopt the old apples for apples thingy

 

[user 3386]

As a long-time Honda rider who recently returned to the Yamaha fold, I believe you're correct when you write: "Honda product planners may be ignorant, but they're not stupid. I wouldn't be at all surprised seeing a completely revamped ST, or possibly an entirely new model, in the next year or so, ala Kawasaki."

Just before buying the '06 FJR-A I rode the new Honda ST1300 and came away with the following impressions about the ST: slower, ugly, uncomfy seating position. Even at a higher price, the FJR delivers better value. Honda: time to re-invent your sport-tourer.

One thing that didn't cloud my judgment: the stories on ST boards worldwide about the 17 or so European police officers who've been killed so far on ST-1300Ps due to "severe rear end wobble." US ST1300Ps are "governed to a max of 125mph," according to Huntington Honda's service manager who imports/sells more police STs than any other dealer. The Honda 1300 "Pan European" police accidents all occured during chases at over 130mph! At that speed, many things can go wrong.

 

[Mike-H]

Just an FYI...if you check all U.K. ST's have been pulled out of service.... :blink: ....think about it...

 

[RadioHowie]

Made this thread for Howie and FJR RObert so they wont get in trouble........ for highjacking

I say the FJR with the mostest has to be compared to the ST1300 with the mostest.

Kinda sorta what I said. Just you said it better.

But it really comes down to this...feature-wize, the base ST and the AE are the orphans...the ST1300ABS and the FJR1300A are really the apples-to-apples comparo.

Feejer wins, hands down, in every department with the possible exception of weather protection and I'll gladly give up a little wind protection in sunny Florida to drive a bike with enough power to get out of its own way and looks that don't attract sex-crazed armadillos.

:rofl:

 

[Cdogman]

Made this thread for Howie and FJR RObert so they wont get in trouble........ for highjacking

I say the FJR with the mostest has to be compared to the ST1300 with the mostest.

Kinda sorta what I said. Just you said it better.

But it really comes down to this...feature-wize, the base ST and the AE are the orphans...the ST1300ABS and the FJR1300A are really the apples-to-apples comparo.

Feejer wins, hands down, in every department with the possible exception of weather protection and I'll gladly give up a little wind protection in sunny Florida to drive a bike with enough power to get out of its own way and looks that don't attract sex-crazed armadillos.

:rofl:

:assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: My AE IS NOT AN ORPHAN Her name is "lil *****" and she has a home and is loved :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :assassin: :lol: :lol:

 

[Warchild]

The Honda 1300 "Pan European" police accidents all occured during chases at over 130mph! At that speed, many things can go wrong.

The ST1300 has always been - ALWAYS been - unstable at high speed.

I rode one of the first ST1300 "press bikes" in June, 2002 at the conclusion of the Utah 1088, and immediately reported the high-speed weave issue to Torrance. It was unacceptable... anything above the Ton, and the chassis would start to roll and pitch about it's axis, similar to being stuck behind the prop wash of a 18-wheeler at highway speeds. The higher you went, the worse it got. This was with the bike empty of load, windscreen all the way down, etc, etc.

The problem is obvious to me: it's an aerodynamic bodywork issue. Honda will never, EVER admit they got it wrong. Until/unless the bodywork is re-done, it will weave at speed. This is how it killed motor-cops in England.

This issue was a fundamental reason why I gave up on the ST1300 as a worthy successor to the ST1100. Because plain and simple: it isn't. At all. It's a woofer, a horrible over-engineered POS dog.

And this is coming from (what was) about the most steadfast, loyal Honda proponent in the country.

Me.

But, not anymore. :angry2:

Between that dog ST1300, abandoning the hyper-bike market, and some of the real "gems" they've put out the last half-decade (Wingabagoes w/ cracked frames, the heavy, slow CBR1K, that ridiculous VTEC noisemaker on the Viffer, etc, etc), Honda can just pound sand.

And little wonder Honda has lost focus on their motorcycle division....

Because they are spending too much money building Jets! :angry:

HondaJet | The Sky Is Yours

And too much money building goofy-*** white robots... :angry:

Honda Worldwide | ASIMO

And too much money building racing cages..... :angry:

Honda Racing

Piss off, Honda.... :glare:

 

[nusman68]

Good info, Warchild. Somehow I had not heard of the high-speed stability issue; that's terrible, to say the least. You would think Honda would be concerned about litigation, especially what with police agencies being involved.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Well said WC, well said. I was at the B.A.R.F. gathering at a Honda Dealer a week ago. I think its Bay Area Riders Forum, mostly all sportbikes. I was talking to a Honda salesman and even he admitted Honda miss market opprotunities. They are getting farther away from what is selling and where the market is heading.

 

[Luke]

But is there a 4.8 gallon portable fuel cell that will fit both the ST and the faster FJR?

 

[chornbe]

...sex-crazed armadillos.

Don't knock it 'til you tried it, pal!

In all seriousness, I liked the two STs I rode. I like the Feej more and yes, it's better looking. I didn't take the ST up high enough to notice any high speed wobble, but frankly, Honda's been in the game a long time and knows how to build a bike. I doubt there's anything in the inherint design that causes a wobble.

$.02

Well said WC, well said. I was at the B.A.R.F. gathering at a Honda Dealer a week ago. I think its Bay Area Riders Forum, mostly all sportbikes. I was talking to a Honda salesman and even he admitted Honda miss market opprotunities. They are getting farther away from what is selling and where the market is heading.

Yep, I'll agree with that. They have two RR bikes that people love. The F4i is a FANTASTIC bike but sales pale in comparison to the Gixxer because the Gixxer is just a little better all around (if you believe the hype) and the Gixxer gets more recognition with the street squids. Shame - I owned an F4i and it's an all around grreat machine. I'd still have it if I hadn't fallen into my Feejer deal. A niche market segment loves the VFR, but it will never expand beyond its current (and shrinking - thanks VTec! ) market segment niche. A *lot* of people love the VT1100, but rather than update it for the new EPA regs, they're discontinuing it in favor of a broader VTX option offering. The VTX is the ******* of all cruisers. You don't put mechanical valve adjustments on cruisers these days, and you don't charge in excess of $12k for such a base bike. It's just silly. The Goldwing is... and this is hard for me to say because I love the Goldwing line... yes, it *is* turning into the motorhome that people have been joking about for years. Sorry to say it, but it's true. The 599 and 919 are great bikes, but they should have sold the 599 with FI, and the 919 under the Nighthawk name to gather the flock. Discontinuing the Nighthawk (the *real* nighthawk, not the 250cc thing they still sell) was a HUGE mistake. The Magna... small sales numbers but they sold every machine they built and they have a wicked faithful cult following. Well, they did, anyway.

Honda = missed boat. They have to pull some pretty fancy tricks out of their collective *** to win a lot of folks back.

 

[Big Sky]

My first two rides were Yamaha - 1976 RD 400, then 1980 XJ650G Maxim. Switched to Honda for the 1982 Sabre and stayed with the marque 20 years until I opted for the '03 FJR over the ST. Honda has lost focus on their motorcycle division. They are uncompetitive in every class except luxo-touring. Look at the mags' top-ten selections: hell, Honda can't even muster an honorable mention. They don't even have an entry in some classes (open-class muscle bike - no Blackbird, which only reigned one year anyway). The head of their motorcycle division - maybe the chairman of the board - needs to be sent packing. At this rate, Honda motorcycles will be history in a decade.

 

[Warchild]

I didn't take the ST up high enough to notice any high speed wobble, but frankly, Honda's been in the game a long time and knows how to build a bike. I doubt there's anything in the inherint design that causes a wobble.

Yeah, normally you wouldn't think so, but that's not the case here. Honda dicked up the ST1300 design for high-speed work, of that there is NO doubt.

Just ask the widows of the dozen or so dead British cops that died doing 120+ chases on these oinkers. Little wonder the ST1300 has been pulled from the British Police Force fleet.

Now they'll probably look hard at the FJR1300... in which case, the chances of doing a runner just got worse for the bad guys! :lol:

 

[Donnie Aiken]

Hi All,

I am a ST owner, 06 with ABS, and I would like to respond to a couple things.

I test drove the an 06 FJR 1300AE before buying my ST. The FJR is an awesome bike and I almost bought it. The dealer wouldn't deal and it had been sitting on the showroom floor for 5 months. The warranty was ticking by. Matter of fact, it is still sitting on the dealer floor. Dealer wanted 15,299 and thats is way too much.

Made this thread for Howie and FJR RObert so they wont get in trouble........ for highjacking
Howie sed

I had to look...MSRP web prices

ST1300 = $14,399

FJR1300A = $13,799

ST1300ABS = $15,499

FJR1300AE = $15,599

Damn, that REALLY shows what a value the FJR is...only a $100 more than a motorcycle half its worth.

Seriously though, I was very surprised to find the FJR more than the ST. Some of you guys have spouted the ST's higher price for so long I was convinced. Guess it's true...don't believe everything you read on the Internet. smile.gif

FJRRobert Sed

And about $7000 cheaper than the BMW things....

I need to look into an IBA approved 4.8g setup for my '06 or just keep to running some smaller rides for a while...

Then along came dunhamg and he sed

The problem is you are comparing the wrong prices. Here would be the correct comparison.

FJR1300A = $13,799

ST1300ABS = $15,499

Since the FJR1300A has ABS and the ST does not have the electric shift option. The FJR is $1700 less.

Then Howie sed

But, but, but....

If you compare the top-of-the-line FJR with the top-of-the-line ST, then my numbers work.

Using your comparison, which is 100% legitimate, then the ST1300 standard is an orphan with no comparison in the marketplace, so at $14,399, it is NO bargain at all, making the ST1300ABS, at $15,499, the "Stupid Buy of the Decade".

Honda product planners may be ignorant, but they're not stupid. I wouldn't be at all surprised seeing a completely revamped ST, or possibly an entirely new model, in the next year or so, ala Kawasaki.

I say the FJR with the mostest has to be compared to the ST1300 with the mostest.

Feej Wins!! Hands down.

Not Feej's fault it is the inly one with that option, web havta start takin things off the beemer too if we adopt the old apples for apples thingy

This is fairly sound logic if you assume a few things.

1. All bikes sell from MSRP.

2. All bikes are financed at the same terms and rates. Honda does its own financing with a lot lower rates.

I agree that Honda could do a better job at knowing what will sell and what will not sell. Judging by the number of non- abs bikes still leftover, Honda should just make the ABS standard.

The issue with High Speed wobble, I don't seem to have this issue. But It is a serious topic. We don't know the WHOLE story of what happened with the british cops that died. I will not assume it was the driver and I will not assume it was the ST. I did have to adjust my rear suspension when I fist got my bike home. The rebound damping screw was adjusted way to far out from the factory. You would think that professional riders would realize this also. Maybe not. Besides that, no one knows what kinds of modifications were done to the 1300 P models.

I have had my bike over 150 indicated a lot. My best friend rides a Busa.

My ST is steady as a rock at 150+

Now for the price comparing. Like I said, I have NEVER bought a bike for MSRP, I hope you all didn't either. Most ST's with ABS are going for around 12,500 to 13000. I don't know what the actually sell price on the FJR is. It may come down if Yamaha decides to make it a standard order bike instead of a special order. But when I bought my bike, I payed 13800 out the door.

That 13800 included :

1. Heated Grips

2. Extended Warranty ( for a total of 7 years) ST comes with 3 years.

3. Gap coverage and Tire coverage

4. Free services at my Dealer. I have yet to pay for anything including oil changes and tire mountings.

By the time you factor in a nice low interest rate from Honda, I bet a few Yamaha and Suzuki owners wish that they did there own financing.

I have enjoyed riding serveral different bikes before I bought my ST. All were great bikes and ALL had plenty of power to do what they were designed to do. That included the FJR and serveral beamers.

Be safe all and I hope to meet a few FJR riders at the Dragon next year.