ES VS A

FNG here with a few questions for the group.

Currently riding a 2016 Majasty S scooter (excellent for the area in Japan) and am looking to get a full touring bike when I get back to the states.

Having done lots of research I noticed the big difference between the 2 is the quickly adjustable electronic suspension. As a guy who doesn't like to fiddle with the bike a lot (main reason I'm eye balling these beasties is their utter reliability and comfort) Is it worth the extra money for it and what will it do for me?

I owned an 06 Honda Shadow Spirit, excellent bike, rather fun, extremely reliable and taught me that never again with a chain. I hated lubing that thing up every other week, (I'd average 250 miles per week) and I'm looking to do that again. I have narrowed down my bike that I'm looking at to either the FJR or the S10, and after finding out that the S10 is gonna be quite a bit more then the FJR for insurance (reasons are involved I'm told) I'm leaning to the FJR. And yes the S10 would have been quite the pavement princess anyways. I already have a RDL seat planned as the first aftermarket item.

As a final note this is going to be my primary vehicle as I am finally giving up my car, so good cargo capacity for things like groceries and the like is a must. And as such what are the groups thoughts on the Entrosys AC unit?

Just want some thoughts from the group.

Thanks for the help guys!

Kitt, your A vs ES question has been asked many times since 2014 when we got the ES version. You might try doing a search to review those old threads. (See how nice I was? )

If you do not like to fiddle with your bike, get the A and just Set and Forget. The A suspension has to be cheaper to repair and replace. The primary benefit of the ES is to be able to quickly and easily change settings based on different road conditions and load conditions.

For example, I might set the preload to single rider and the damping to Soft -3 for a run down the Interstate and then switch the preload to single and luggage and the damping to Hard +3 for a blast down a curvy road. Or I can compensate for luggage, or a grocery trip, or a fat passenger.

Good luck.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll also start rooting through old threads as well.

If you will be riding solo most of the time I would stick with the "A". As Redfish said, set it and forget it. I carry groceries in mine quite often.and don't have any problems with fitting a large paper bag that is about 2/3 full. Plastic bags are a little easier to fit in. I don't change the suspension settings at all when carrying groceries as the ride home is only a couple of miles at less than 35 MPH and I doubt there is more than about 30 pounds additional weight. Be prepared for lots of questions in the parking lot. The FJR draws a lot of attention. Lots of discussion in the old threads, this place is a goldmine.

I have two complete sets of suspension for my dirtbike, about $3000 including revalving. Yet it was a fairly easy decision to buy an "A" over an "ES". No regrets. Yet on dirtbike I know the difference (and not too happy) after 10 miles and the shock has gotten hot/warm.

Kitt190 said:

As a final note this is going to be my primary vehicle as I am finally giving up my car, so good cargo capacity for things like groceries and the like is a must. And as such what are the groups thoughts on the Entrosys AC unit?

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If I was cutting down to just one vehicle for the sake of economy then I'd be looking for a used Prius. 50 MPG. Tires cost same as FJR set but last 40,000 miles. Air conditioning. Lots of room.

N4HHE said:

Kitt190 said:

As a final note this is going to be my primary vehicle as I am finally giving up my car, so good cargo capacity for things like groceries and the like is a must. And as such what are the groups thoughts on the Entrosys AC unit?

Click to expand...

If I was cutting down to just one vehicle for the sake of economy then I'd be looking for a used Prius. 50 MPG. Tires cost same as FJR set but last 40,000 miles. Air conditioning. Lots of room.

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Well not pure economy, Coming from a lovingly modded '12 WRX STI I am looking for something that gets slightly better then 18 MPG. Besides I love riding, caught the bug off that aforementioned 06 Honda Shadow. Also insurance on the FJR is significantly less then the Prius and the WRX. It is over 1400 a year for that beasty and I have no accidents, no tickets and a great driving record. So I just need to be able to do it year round. A few Goldwing riders up in the PNW where I was previously were out in the snows as well so I know it's possible with the right gear, hence the Entrosys question.

+1 on the A. Nothing against the ES, I can appreciate the ability of the ES for easier suspension adjustments plus the '16 model now has those nifty lean angle cornering lights. But as a technician and a cheap bastage, I went with the A because I cringe at the thought of having to rebuild an ES suspension once it gets past the YES warranty period and repairs become out of pocket. Or ......just trade it off every 5 years and be done with it.

Get the A then spend the saved money and get a set of AK20s and a Penske.

"... what are the groups thoughts on the Entrosys AC unit?"

My first thought is: I've never heard of it. (So thanks for introducing me to something new.)

Then my old-fart, cranky-*** cynical self wakes up and says, "One more thing to break. Probably doesn't work well anyway. Takes up the entire pillion? Where's my tailbag and bike cover going to go? How much does this thing cost?"

The bikeairusa.com website (US distributor) says it costs $1,500, but they're sold out for 2016 and have no availability date for 2017. So I'd say order that thing before you leave Japan.

All I'll say is that I'll never go back to an "A" model FJR after having ridden the ES for a year now (and I have an '07 with a custom suspension in the stable as well). It's only as fiddly as you make it.

So it looks like one for the ES several for the A and one for the A with racing suspension upgrades. And NTXFJR brings up a point I should have realized, I fully intend to keep this thing for 200k+ Miles. Yes it will be a well used machine but like every other vehicle I've owned it will also be well pampered, I have followed the owner's manual for all of my vehicles as far as oil changes and maintenance and never had an engine/transmission problem with one of them. I'm also not looking to trade in every 5 years unless the new model becomes a better fit for me.

So far it seems like an A model is getting a lot of love.

Thanks much guys!

If there has been some problems with the electronic suspension, this forum hasn't heard about it. And it's out 3 years now, so there has been enough time for things to develop. At least from my perspective, the ES seems to be every bit as reliable as the A.

Having written that, for the same reasons previously discussed, I chose the A model with no regrets.

I had a '13A and a '14ES sitting side by side in my garage for 2 years and rode both of them 18K miles before selling the '13A. The inverted forks on the ES are clearly superior to the conventional forks is any situation that is putting stress on the frame, why Yamaha has elected to not to upgrade the A models with inverted forks is hard to understand. As far as suspension, I think the A and ES fork's spring rates are the same and the damping performance seems to be a push. Both perform very well and I think the gain from Ak-20s or revalving the A models would be minimal for most riding conditions. I think the the ES shock has slightly better damping than the A model but it should with all the different damping options and because it costs 6 times as much. The A shock is not (officially) rebuildable but the cost to rebuild the ES shock is a unknown (at this time) and a concern.

I think the ES shock is great up to a 360 lb load, after that the sag rates become unacceptable. The A model shock is probably good for 400-420 lbs load and then the sag rate for it also becomes unacceptable. Bottom line, if you are going to regularly exceed a 400 lb load, you probably should buy the A model and install an aftermarket shock.

My fat rear, plus gear, plus maybe groceries or a few changes of clothing and the open road? Not likely to exceed that 360 pounds on any kind of regular basis (I'm at 170 at 5'8" so not exactly skinny here) but every once in a while take a full load out depending.

Kitt190 said:

My fat rear, plus gear, plus maybe groceries or a few changes of clothing and the open road? Not likely to exceed that 360 pounds on any kind of regular basis (I'm at 170 at 5'8" so not exactly skinny here) but every once in a while take a full load out depending.

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It sounds like either model will work for you...solo or 2-up.

...am looking to get a full touring bike when I get back to the states...

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If that means you are moving to Florida or Kansas the ES probably won't do much for you. If you are moving to New England where the road surface sucks in a lot of places but is good in some other places the ES has appeal. If you are moving to West Virginia, the Carolina's California or other areas with sporting roads the ES has a lot of appeal.

Maybe one other data point to consider: What are the road conditions like where you'll be doing most of your riding?

My happy full day rides consist of a couple of hours of traffic with about one of those being on interstate stuff before I get to where I want to be. Same coming home. Once in the enjoyable areas I might encounter some stretches with frost heaves or long over-due for a repave. After I first upgraded my Gen I's suspension I found myself more and more playing with the adjusters for road conditions during a day's ride or consciously not doing so. When I was ready to upgrade, the ES was something I thought I might enjoy.

Edit : Damn. Ionbeam always seems to make the point quicker doesn't he?

Your count might be different from mine but just to clarify, I always vote for the ES. There are some financial advantages to the A, but I love my ES.