Symax helmet owners read !

I'm copying this from FJRowners board, I'm sure Bill won't mind the post. This was his responce to Bounce after he asked if he was OK, since he was selling his FJR and now took it off the market......

QUOTE "

Am I ok ? I am alive and at home but have some injuries to recover from.

I was on my way home to Kentucky from Key West. In Chattanooga I was rearended on I-75. I had reduced speed due to an accident on the other side of the interstate, traffic ahead of me had slowed to about 45, I was hit from behind by a car that didnt slow down. I was ejected from the bike and nearly run over by other vehicles. My bike was pushed 120 ft from the point of impact. I was wearing good protective gear or so I thought. My Symax helmet was damaged and came off at some point causing some head injuries. It had been fully closed and buckled up , but the chin bar release broke and allowed the helmet to open. I have now found out that the HJC will not come off your head while closed but will easily roll forward and off your head with the chinbar open.

There were photographers on the scene of the previous accident and when they heard my accident occuring they turned to catch it on film and video, pretty amazing and scary shit. I'll be o.k. but its going to take a while. There is some photos here;

https://www.carsonphotos.net/webpage1028.htm

"end quote

so I ask if flip fronts can't handle a 45 spill would you trust them at higher speeds?

I'll stick to full face helmets forever.

I wonder, was his helmet open? My Schuberth operating instructions, and HJC flip front (if I rememmber right) both say NEVER ride with front open.

I ride with a Nolan flip front, have been for several years. Always wondered about what would happen if it was open and flipped up. Would a full face helmet have done any better and not come off?

I am getting ready to purchase a new helmet and it was going to be another Nolan flip, now I wonder.

Hope you recover with no problem I wish you a speedy recovery.

Gawkers at wrecks going by are just as bad as cagers on cell phones.

They just don't get it weekend rider

I've been wearing a Symax for a few years, and I think it is a good helmet. I don't think all helmets are going to function at 100% all the time. Even full face helmets are not a panacea. Although it sounds like Bill had some injuries, it would seem that even though the helmet failed, it may well have still kept his injuries from being much worse. I don't know that, and I don't have enough details to say, but I can tell you that it would take a lot to get that helmet to come off your head. I certainly hope never to test that statement, though.

I doubt that Bill had the chin open. It'd be pretty hard to have it flipped up at 45 miles an hour. I have cracked mine open to get my hand in and scratch or whatever for a second, but riding more that 5 mph with it up is very difficult. The open chin would catch the air and try to rip your head off.

The Symax chin release button is fairly well recessed and the mechanism is a pretty good positive lock, but I have certainly caught the button just handling the helmet while not on my head. I can imagine that in an accident it is very possible while flailing around to catch the button and pop the chin open. And I would imagine that if you hit it just right it will break. You'd hope at that point the energy had dissipated and the helmet had done it's job. But if you have secondary, tertiary contacts during an accident, you've lost your lower face protection and could be in danger.

Hard to believe that with the chin broken off that the helmet is inclined to come off your head. At that point it would be like a 3/4 helmet, and I would hope that if the strap was secured that the helmet would stay on your head.

Although I am quite comfortable with my Symax, I just bought a Scorpion EXO-700 full face. What I'm finding is that the convenience of the flip front was not as much an improvement over a full face, and the EXO is quite lite, quieter, more aerodynamic and more comfortable on my head. So I've made the switch back to a full face for comfort more than safety. The added safety is just a side effect in my case.

Just like with all gear ( or no gear ), we all have decide our own comfort zones. It's a matter of degree of risk. I think for what it is, the Symax flip front is a good helmet. I think it's certainly not as safe as a full face helmet, but better than a 3/4 and certainly better than no helmet at all.

Sounds like Bill is going to be ok. CHECK SIX!! Cagers are trying to kill you 'round the clock.

In the write up, he says the helmet was closed. Seriously though, how strong can the mechanism be. As far as I know, none of the flip ups have been submitted for Snell Testing. DOT well we know what some get legally by with.

Car probably couldn't steer with the bike lodged in it's front end. If there was ever a time to check your six it's at a traffic tieup. You can still be involved if a car 2 or 3 back fails to stop. PU or van behind it isn't always possable to see it coming.

If your going to get a new helmet, why not contact snell and see if they would test how much force it takes to brake the flip mechanism. You would be doing everyone (excpt maybe Nolan) a favor.

On the other hand, I have not heard of a chin piece on a certified helmet of breaking in any accident. Shields can be ground off, but usually prevent initial penetration.

I am sorry to hear of this accident. Physiically and psychologically can be difficult wounds to heal. On the road makes it difficult being away from (friends family) support. The accident already having safety response teams there was a plus. We all hope everything goes as well as possible. TJ

If your going to get a new helmet, why not contact snell and see if they would test how much force it takes to brake the flip mechanism. You would be doing everyone (excpt maybe Nolan) a favor.

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Snell testing ain't cheap. Snell doesn't have a standard defined for modular helmets yet. Even they admit that is probably the main reason that modular helmets haven't been submitted. On top of that there's the whole debate about Snell vs DOT for street use. A company can amortize the cost of testing across all the units sold. An individual might be helping others to have a modular helmet tested as if it were a full-faced helmet or they might not. What they will be doing is lightening their bank account.

Beyond that, each person can test a modular helmet like they should be testing their other helmets (open or full faced). With it secured, grab the back edge of the helmet and try to roll it forward, over the top of your head. For modular helmets, try this both with the chin bar closed and open.

BTW: The impact speed wasn't 45 mph. Bill said he had slowed (or was slowing) to that speed. The other driver didn't slow at all when he hit Bill. No telling what speed they were traveling and what odd, geometrical vectors were in play when the impact happened they caused the chin bar to fail.

Flip helmet = very convenient design & tempting to try. Always concerned when I hear about a chin guard opening during impact. I'm not in the mood for grinding my chin with asphalt. Worst still, helmet completely removes during collision as described above. There are enough hazards on the highway, without stacking the deck. Thanks, but no thanks. :nono:

For me and my pillion = race spec Shoei X-11 full face helmets. I :wub: my SO and want to give her and myself the best chance possible.

Thank God he survived OK. Too many of these end in tragedies.

Please guys - remember the rules. Stack the odds heavily in your favor. Keep as large a cushion as you can. While I can make no testament to Bill's skills, how he was riding that day, or the traffic conditions, I have a habit of trying to analyze these safety scenarios and I can't imagine the possibility that a bigger following buffer may have prevented this outcome.

I keep my fingers crossed that it doesn't ever happen to anyone ever again!! Unrealistic, but hopeful!

-BD

BrunDog

Read the post again. Accident was not due to Bill's following too close. He was rear ended by a jerk in a cage that was "rubbernecking" ie looking at the accident on the other side and not paying attention to driving and what was in front of him.

Oops - jumped to conclusions. You're right, Murf. Foot duly inserted in mouth.

Lesson is to watch out when you slow down, the jackass in back may not too (like everyone else said). I knew there was something to be learned here...

Something needs correction here. Motorcycling is getting more popular and we cannot allow the moronic driving propulation to run around killing us at will.

The penalties for hitting a motorcyclist should be harsher than those of hitting another auto. Or how about some motorcycle training for all motorists?

-BD

Hey,

I too own a Sy-max and liked the convience of being able to open it up at the gas station, etc. I found that you must be sure when closing the chin bar that both side lock in place with an audible "click". Although I now wear a Scorpion for the same reasons Rocket mentioned, I think a flip front helmet will obviously protect better than an open face and a well as a full face.

I have heard of so many people getting rear-ended from distracted cagers that having an excape route off to the side of the car infront is the best way to protect yourself.

Bill

Neil Young said it: "Piece of crap"

Stick to real full face helmets. I have quite a few helmets (Sy-Max, Nolan flip-ups and Shoei RF 1000, Arai Quantum F and I the construction of the full face helmets is so much better there is no comparison.

I stopped wearing the flip-ups as I lost confidence in them.

I don't know about safety of flip ups and suppose I distrust them. I've been using full face helmets since 1977, and have no plans to wear anything else -- I do trust them. It's possible that if I lived in a climate where it was regularly 95+ degrees and very humid, I MIGHT also own an open face, but it'd require an experience of almost passing out from the heat and humidity for me to make that buying decision.

The day before yesterday I got involved with a traffic slowdown situation. A car in the next lane over and two cars back got rear-ended. Being in CA is an advantage as I always line up for lane sharing opportunities. I recommend it to all as the space between lanes makes for a great safety zone.

Use (or don't use) whatever helmet and PPE (personal protective equipment) you want. Myself, I'd rather walk away poor than get rich by being disabled or disfigured by PPE that didn't do its job.

Jeez! That car damn near split the bike! I'm glad to know that he survived that hit.

Full face, single shell. 'Nuf said.

Glad to see he is okay!

I currently have 5 helmets:

2 Arai Quantams

1 Arai Open face (3/4)

1 Schuberth Concept and a

New Nolan Flip.

I feel the comfort of a flip is worth what I see as a slightly higher risk in a crash. If I wanted to be 100% safe I'd never ride.

You have to assess the +&- yourself and decide for yourself.

I ride a Symax locally and full face on trips. IIRC the one negative to the Symax is that the chinbar locking pins are PLASTIC where Nolan uses steel. Who knows if that would have made a difference but glad to hear you're here to talk about it. Thanks for the warning...and get well soon.

George

I wonder, was his helmet open? My Schuberth operating instructions, and HJC flip front (if I rememmber right) both say NEVER ride with front open.

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Um...read what Highlander said "It had been fully closed and buckled up" Full face helmets are better IMOH because there is no real weak link in overall structural damage on impact. Of course they are only rated at about 25kph anyway so anything over that and it protects you is a bonus.

Just glad he's OK

Thanks for the posting Dave - a good "heads up" for everybody.