I thought wet clutches were Indestructable.....

[SIZE=24pt]DUDE!!!!![/SIZE]

I FRIED MY CLUTCH!!!!

:focus:

:angrysmiley:

So........................

I was having a grand ol time tonight at the Winter Skill Enhancement Class ***CLICKY HERE*** put on by the nice folks of the Arizona Precsion Motorcycle Drill Team for FREE. Slow speed stuff, but good excercises for improving all kinds of skills. Tonight was classs number 2 of 6. Braking drills tonight, but also a couple of weaves, and the slow speed drill - you know, how slow can you go for the designated distance.

Well there I was..... engine revving, rear brake dragging, inching forward like a snail. I was Master of the Friction Zone!!!! Did a bunch of passes. 20 or so? Towards the end, I felt the clutch lose some of it's *grabbyness*. I figured I just overheated it. Well, on the way home, I was taking it easy as I was riding with a relatively new rider. Once she turned off, I did a first gear hard acceleration and quickly found out my clutch, well.....she ain't so good, Capt'n! Further experimentation showed that any moderate throttle input in any gear and the clutch slips, the engine racing away.

NOT GOOD!!!! If I ride relatively easy, no slipping that I can detect, so far.

FUKE ME!!!! I though wet clutches were indestructable.

Even if my poor dirty ol whore of an FJR does have 136,000 miles on it.

Ok, so where do I go from here?

A) Is it possible to get it fixed under my Y.E.S. warranty? With 136k on the clock? I still have 7 months left.

B) If 'no' to 'A' above, can I fix it myself?

I am assuming that with all that slipping of the clutch tonight, I fried (glazed?) the clutch plates. Any other possiblities out there? My DOW (Dirty Ol Whore) is my daily driver and I want to get it fixed ASAP. I have never done anything to a motorcycle clutch before. How hard is it? I looked at the service manual, and while not completely complicated, all those damned parts look intimidating. First of all, I don't have a 'Universal Clutch Holder' like the SM shows for holding the clutch boss while loosening (disassembly) or tightening (assembly) the clutch boss nut. Any way around that tool? Anywhere to get one cheap?

Plus, the SM talks about aligning various shit while re-assembling. Not feeling real good about that. Nothing to worry about? Or is this somewhat of a complicated procedure? How badly can I fuke things up?

So, if I decide to tackle this project, what parts do I need to order? New clutch plates? New friction plates? New clutch spring? If I disassemble, how do I know what's fuked up?

Here's the parts diagram of the clutch, what the hell is going on there wit all dat sheee-ut?



Item Part # Description Notes Req

1 5JW-16150-00-00 PRIMARY DRIVEN GEAR COMP. 1

2 5JW-16154-00-00 PLATE, THRUST 1 1

3 5JW-16370-00-00 CLUTCH BOSS ASSY 1

4 36Y-16384-00-00 .PLATE, SEAT 1

5 36Y-16383-00-00 .SPRING, CLUTCH BOSS 1

6 4XV-16331-00-00 .PLATE, FRICTION 2 1

7 2H7-16325-00-00 PLATE, CLUTCH 2 1

8 2H7-16385-00-00 .RING, CLUTCH BOSS 1

9 5JW-16321-00-00 PLATE, FRICTION 7

10 2H7-16325-00-00 PLATE, CLUTCH 2 7

11 4XV-16351-00-00 PLATE, PRESSURE 1 1

12 36Y-16335-00-00 HOUSING, SPRING 1

13 5JW-16334-00-00 SPRING, CLUTCH 2 1

14 1TX-16352-00-00 PLATE, PRESSURE 2 1

15 95817-06025-00 BOLT, FLANGE 6

16 93306-00304-00 BEARING 1

17 341-16321-13-00 PLATE, FRICTION 1

18 5JW-16183-00-00 SPACER 3 1

19 90387-28002-00 COLLAR 1

20 5JW-16181-00-00 SPACER 1 1

21 90215-25218-00 WASHER, LOCK 1

22 90170-20323-00 NUT 1

23 93109-08061-00 OIL SEAL 1

24 5JW-16357-00-00 ROD, PUSH 2 1

25 93511-32017-00 BALL 1

26 4KG-16356-00-00 ROD, PUSH 1 1

27 93210-06422-00 O-RING 1

28 5JW-16381-00-00 PUSH LEVER COMP. 1

29 99530-08012-00 PIN, DOWEL 2

30 95024-06025-00 BOLT, FLANGE

Somebody throw me a life preserver for crying out loud!!!!! I want my mommy.

I would say that clutch gave you good service, to say the least! At least they are easy to change.

Skooter,

I would replace all the diaphram spring, clutch and friction plates for sure. Check the pressure plate, clutch boss and primary driven gear(clutch basket) for wear and replace if necessary. The weakening diaphram spring is the cause of most failures in the Yammy platforms(Venture, VMax, FJ, Maxims all used this style clutch.) The primary driven gear and the clutch basket are an integral unit so you just can't replace the basket. You will also need the special tool to hold the basket to break part number 22 loose and then re-torque it on assembly. Here is my homemade tool for the job.

Clutch repair is a pretty easy job. On a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being easy and 5 the tough end I would rate clutch repair(in this case remove & replace) about a 2. The one thing that will bite you is if you forget about part #25 when disassembling. It sometimes pops out and ends up rolling around the floor. Don't lose it. Put it back in the reverse order of disassembly. Don't be imtimidated. I did my Venture clutch in under an hour and that included fab time on my "tool".

Easy enough job to replace.

At 136K, definitely do the springs and you might think about changing the seals in your slave cylinder while you're at it.

Bob

Just happened to think that with so many miles, don't be surprised to see notches worn into the fingers of your basket.

If the clutch still operates smoothly, but is not grabbing enough, you will likely be able to get away with just replacing all of the friction plates and the springs. The friction plates are the primary "wear" item. As they get thinner you lose tension from the spring. But it's best to replace the spring at the same time as it may have lost some of it's, uhm... springiness too.

You get the plates and springs off by removing the 6 bolts (item 15). You will be able to check the edges of the basket and hub for any "notched" after removing the plates.

You will not have to remove the nut (item 22) unless you need to replace the hub and/or basket.

Being a cheap-ass frugal Yankee, i'd probably just dress up the sides of the basket if there is wear, rather than replacing the whole kahuna. I haven't looked, but I'm sure there are specs for allowable wear.

It is easy. an hour the most to get it done. What I was told I needed to do when I was replacing my clutch on FZ1 is to pre-soak new plates it in engine oil. Not sure if it made any difference, but I like to marinade

Hola El Pendejo Grande,

I've already answered your personal post; responded to your home e-mail. But I'll also post the information here, in case you look here first. The excellent mechanic that fixes our Kraut Krap is Mark Meadows. His repair shop company web site is www.azmotoman.com and his phone number is 480-390-3296 and his work e-mail is [email protected] If you like, I can run my FJR Shop Manual over to Mark's garage this morning, so when you talk on the phone he will have the diagrams.

Recuerdos, Chuy

Cell: 602-722-0427

With 7 months to go, Try the YES. The only thing they can do is say no.

By all means try to get it done under YES. But I'm guessing that clutch wear at this kind of mileage will be deemed "normal wear and tear" and not covered.

Just for grins I looked up the clutch replacement specs.

Friction plate thickness

2.9 ~ 3.1 mm (0.114 ~ 0.122 in)

<Limit>: 2.8 mm (0.110 in)

There is no spec for wear on the metal plates. Just warpage, which would be seen as clutch drag when disengaged.

No sped on the spring. Just inspect for damage.

No spec on the notching either. It just says either smooth it out or replace the parts.

It does mention in the procedure that you have to remove the rear balancer and the Clutch slave. Is that true?

No need to remove the clutch slave. All work is done through the clutch cover. An easy job...as I said...if you take your time and be really careful it shouldn't take more than 1.5 hours even for a novice who has turned a a wrench or two over time. Get the friction plates ahead of time and let them soak overnite.

Thanks for all the help everybody. I think I will try this myself. So I am going to order some parts from U Motors, which ones do I want?

Is this list accurate and complete?

1 ea. of (13) 5JW-16334-00-00 SPRING, CLUTCH

7 ea. of (9 )5JW-16321-00-00 PLATE, FRICTION

7 ea. of (10) 2H7-16325-00-00 PLATE, CLUTCH 2 7

What about these parts:

(17) 341-16321-13-00 PLATE, FRICTION

And parts 12, 14, and 16, the bearing?

And the rest I guess I will wait to see how everything looks. The clutch had been working fine until last night's abuse.

MNFJR05 - Nice homemade tool! How did you make it?

Oh, and what is the 'rear balancer' that the SM is talking about needing to remove. After reading that last night, I was like WTF are they talking about?

Thanks again everyone!

Skoot,

The first thing I'd do is hide this post - that way when your dealer contacts Yamaha re:YES payment, they won't know how you did it.

Second thing - take it to the dealer. Let them take care of it.

SkooterG said:

Well there I was..... engine revving, rear brake dragging, inching forward like a snail. I was Master of the Friction Zone!!!!

Click to expand...

Yep, that's exactly how to ruin a clutch. Heat is the enemy -- a clutch converts energy into heat (temporarily) to get you underway. At low speeds, it can get rid of most of the heat (transfers into the engine oil) -- but at high speeds (showing-off in a parking lot) much of the heat stays in the clutch; just too much heat generated. This glazes and warps and, generally, ruins clutch parts.

Is it possible to get it fixed under my Y.E.S. warranty? With 136k on the clock? I still have 7 months left.

Click to expand...

Dood! Have you no shame...?!

what parts do I need to order? New clutch plates? New friction plates? New clutch spring?

Click to expand...

All -- there's nothing like new parts -- "they good!" You might want to check the after-market, like Barnett? But, altho you'd get a good high performance clutch (after-market), you may give-up some of the little 'niceties' built into the stock clutch that make it so....pleasnt to use? Yamaha puts in little 'cushioning devices' that make for smooth operation.

If your future includes more displays of (your) 'slow-riding' prowess? You may want to consider forgoing such 'niceties' -- and just get down to friction plates and metal plates...?? (sometimes makes for a more durable, yet not-so-nice, clutch)

Scoot, you're going to need a gasket for the cover as well.

I wouldn't think it would be covered under YES anymore than brake pads would be covered. They're a designed wear item...and 136K is very good for a life of service. Since you single-handedly have the highest mileage FJR to exist...you're crossing into that zone that many BMW riders are....the life of extended service. Things like this, bushings, brake lines if they were the stock ones, cylinders, seals, etc. are going to be more questionable as Flipper matures and grows gray hai....skin I guess.

It's up to you to predict these things and replace them before they fail.....like in the middle of a rally.

In fact, maybe it would be prudent at the next rally to saddle up to a BMW wrench head with a 200K+ bike and say, "So, we both have bikes that last forever. What did you do around the 150K mark yourself?" The look would be priceless for sure.

charismaticmegafauna said:

...At low speeds, it can get rid of most of the heat (transfers into the engine oil) -- but at high speeds (showing-off in a parking lot) much of the heat stays in the clutch; just too much heat generated. This glazes and warps and, generally, ruins clutch parts....

Click to expand...

+1 on the heat.

But I always thought it was the other way around...high speeds to cool off the clutch. The Top Gun dudes I know all suggest making a run across the parking lot in a higher gear every so often to cool the clutch off.

SkooterG said:

1 ea. of (13) 5JW-16334-00-00 SPRING, CLUTCH 7 ea. of (9 )5JW-16321-00-00 PLATE, FRICTION

7 ea. of (10) 2H7-16325-00-00 PLATE, CLUTCH 2 7

What about these parts:

(17) 341-16321-13-00 PLATE, FRICTION

And parts 12, 14, and 16, the bearing?

Click to expand...

SkooterG

I can't say I've worked on my FJR clutch but I've done a number of them.

I wouldn't hesitate to take on this job. They aren't complex and as you don't need to remove the boss assembly you won't need the clutch holder tool. Your only going to be removing the 6 flange bolts and slide the clutch and pressure plates off.

I would suggest relacing all friction plates, the clutch spring and possibly the bearing if you feel comfortable with replacing bearings (have you done wheel bearings? it looks as though it will be much the same routine.)

I'd also suggest being a little cautious and keeping all it's components in the correct order. You do have the diagram if the plates get mixed up but it's always easier to reassemble in the reverse order just putting the new friction plates into the mix.

As for that bearing, it may be in good order. of your 130K miles were most highway or city miles?

From what I can see the bearing would only be in action when the clutch is disengauged.

Sorry I've just had another look at the exploded view. It looks like friction plate #6 sits under the main assembly (boss) nut, which in turn is relained by item #8. I'd probably not bother changing item #6 friction plate. (because I'm cheap and it's a pain in the butt unless you have a rattle gun and or a clutch relaining tool.)

If you don't have a rattle gun and air compressor they are a very handy tool. hmmm just thinking how often I've used mine.. OOOOO must have used it at least 6 times in 10 years.. Anyway they are really handy to have and they make lots of noise so the wife thinks your being really productive..

A rattle gun can at times make removeal of that impossible nut or bolt a simple job..

Anyway enough on this rattle gun stuff, You won't need one for this proceedure..

Go for it.....

Come one....

Are you finished already...?

I've had a couple of beers so I'm happy to be silly..

I should mention that riding your bike with a slipping clutch will not do it any favours.. Worst case you may warp the clutch plates. Fix it sooner rather than later.

Items I'd relace are 13,16,17,9 if your cashed up or you have clutch shudder issues replace item 10 also. (of course items 9 and 10 there are 7 of each.)

Cheers mate.

BustANut said:

charismaticmegafauna said:

...At low speeds, it can get rid of most of the heat (transfers into the engine oil) -- but at high speeds (showing-off in a parking lot) much of the heat stays in the clutch; just too much heat generated. This glazes and warps and, generally, ruins clutch parts....

Click to expand...

+1 on the heat.

But I always thought it was the other way around...high speeds to cool off the clutch. The Top Gun dudes I know all suggest making a run across the parking lot in a higher gear every so often to cool the clutch off.

Click to expand...

High speed of the engine and clutch -- not the m/c. With the engine at high speed (crank revolutions) and the bike stopped or moving slowly, the disparate energy is given-up as heat.

I think cooling of the clutch would require allowing it to bathe in the cooling medium (in the FJR's case -- engine oil) maybe dis-engaged and rotating?

A run across a parking lot would cool-off a Ducati clutch -- I guess?