FJRF003.0: Ignition Failures on FJRs

[Great! Yamaha seems to be getting the message, these switches seem to be dropping like flies. What you will most likely get is a direct replacement switch - hopefully with a re-key job [SIZE=14pt]if you insist on it![/SIZE] The bad news is that switch will fail just as the old one did if the root cause isn't addressed. There are too many amps passing through the small contact creating excessive heat. As the switch ages the contact gets dirty it adds more resistance which generates more heat. Something will give when the thermal runaway happens - solder joint, plastic melting, something.

I think the final fix for this problem will involve a high amperage relay taking the switching duties away from this antiquated switch design. Perhaps the reason why it seems to be a second generation issue (2006 - 2008) is because the alternator output has been bumped up 100 watts and the bike makes more demands on the system. If you have one of these second generation machines be prepared to deal with it if you haven't already. I'm glad I took a proactive stance by fixing it with a relay two weekends before my 3 week trip in june. Mine melted the floating contact carrier causing an intermittent fault. Once it rears it's ugly head it will not go away by itself.

FoolJustRide when you get the bike back from the dealer, do the relay farkle.

Brodie

Thanks for the heads up on the relay. I'm not really up to speed on the wiring in of a relay but I have a few friends that will be able to help me out. The reason I didn't go the fix-it -yourself route is because I wanted to see what my dealer and Yamaha were going to do about this problem. Yamaha tried to tell me that this was an isolated incident and they were unaware of this happening to FJR's. I then told them there were 12 pages ( at the Time) of FJR owners on this site having problems so don't tell me you aren't aware of the situation.

I know I'll need to do something because the next time it happens it will be coming out of my pocket.

Again, I want to thank Brodie for the heads up and this Forum for helping me out. :clapping:

I'll be riding my brothers 1100S for the next few days so I can continue to get my riding FIX. Hey it's no FJR but at least I'm riding!

Update.... Called my Yamaha dealer and explained what I had read here and they cut the zip ties off. Bike started perfectly for them the whole time they had it so they didn't do anything. Went and picked it up Saturday. BUT a friend who used to work for a large dealership near Cleveland explained WHY my dealer wouldn't do anything...Yamaha will NOT pay them for the work unless the part has FAILED. Because my bike didn't display any signs of not starting for them they had NO reason to take it apart. Talked to the mechanic and he told me he moved the front end every which way and it worked every time. This is a good dealership with a very nice bunch of people, the Owner even came out before I left and told me if it happens get it back here and we'll fix it quick as we can AND we'll fix it to your key. So I've ridden over 300 miles this weekend with lots of stops and starts and the damn things hasn't blanked out again. Guess I'll wait for it to go and hope it's not while I'm riding the Dragon on my way to Road Atlanta!

Also DID file a complaint with the Safegov thing above......

If it is in fact a loose wire pulled away from the solder connection, tugging on the wiring loom coming out of the switch will settle the issue most likely. Just turning the handlebars left/right may not duplicate it beccuase of the zip-tie directly onto the switch housing. Pull on the wiring loom.....

FlyingTurtle said:

Update.... Called my Yamaha dealer and explained what I had read here and they cut the zip ties off. Bike started perfectly for them the whole time they had it so they didn't do anything. Went and picked it up Saturday. BUT a friend who used to work for a large dealership near Cleveland explained WHY my dealer wouldn't do anything...Yamaha will NOT pay them for the work unless the part has FAILED. Because my bike didn't display any signs of not starting for them they had NO reason to take it apart. Talked to the mechanic and he told me he moved the front end every which way and it worked every time. This is a good dealership with a very nice bunch of people, the Owner even came out before I left and told me if it happens get it back here and we'll fix it quick as we can AND we'll fix it to your key. So I've ridden over 300 miles this weekend with lots of stops and starts and the damn things hasn't blanked out again. Guess I'll wait for it to go and hope it's not while I'm riding the Dragon on my way to Road Atlanta!Also DID file a complaint with the Safegov thing above......

Click to expand...

Did you even consider the possibility it was just a dirty switch? You know that does happen occasionally. So before making assumptions, and jumping to conclusions, do some of your own troubleshooting and keep an open mind.

Just filed.

Well, I have just entered this not-so-elite club... and I am not happy about it, mostly because it means my ignition failed, but also because I have seen the list of other "members" and being on the same list might keep me from ever getting a respectable job in the future...

Bike: 2007

Miles: 10655

Color: (faster) Black Cherry

Purchased: July 2007... I do have Y.E.S.

When: Today, August 19, 2008 5:58pm Mountain time

Where: IN THE MIDDLE of a left hand turn in HEAVY traffic... (second busiest intersection in Salt Lake City... at rush hour!!!!)

Ambient Temp: 94 degrees

Speed: 20mph

Drive time before failure: 3 minutes from last startup (running errands in town)

Prior failure: NEVER

Yamaha Dealer contacted: Not Yet (Pushed bike out of HEAVY traffic at 6:01, called local dealer... alas, they were closed at 6:00.) Will be calling in the morning.

Thanks to having read this and other threads I had immediate idea of what the F just happened, so I jiggled the wires and got intermittent power. I did have a Pep Boys Auto thirty feet from where I pushed it to, so I went in and purchased a toggle switch incase I had to do a real J-rig.

Temporary: Electrical taped the ignition wires into a "power positive" position and crept home on lesser-trafficked roads with no further interruption.

Tomorrow I will make all necessary calls and arrangements. If I need to I will print out every page of this thread and present it as well. My guys here have been pretty good to me so far so we'll see how this plays out.

Other than this and the fact that my throttle sucks horsenuts, I love the bike...

I will update as it happens

Chris

Just went to NHSA and "almost" had them do Research until I saw their fees! Crap... only if Yammie will reimburse then I'll do it...

My 2007 with 22,000 miles failed to turn on initially 3 times, about a week apart. Twice in Colorado and once in Wisconsin. I moved the switch several times and then it would come on. Twice the bike was cool, but only off a few mins. on top of Mt. Evans. I finally sprayed the key hole with PB Blaster. Will see? I carry the toggle switch repair just in case and will probably wire it so its there for the big one!!!!.

SkooterG... Yeah I did consider a dirty ignition and I sprayed it with PB Blaster before I took it to the dealer...very possible that's why it hasn't failed to start sense. But I didn't want to take a chance, that's why I had them look at it.

my switch failed on Aug. 6 it is now Aug 21st and the dealer just told me that it was the switch on the 20th.

my fjr is a 2007

It has 13500 miles on it

failed at home when i cut the bike off to open the garage door got back on and nothing!!

The dealer was called the day it happened Aug.6th , it took them tell the Aug 14th to deside what they were going to do.

I took the bike to them on Aug 14th and they finley looked at it on Aug21st and told me that Yamaha was going to foot the bill. 15 days to tell me what was wrong when i told them what it was at first.now maybe another 7 days or more to fix it!!! the dealer says they will take the bike to a lock smith to have all the locks keyed the same.So i can only hope to get it back before WINTER!!!

Jarmons sport bikes Charlottesville Va. the dealer!!

I would like to add an alternative way to hot wire your FJR

In advance of a failure purchase a pair of Posi Lock taps and install them on the red and brown wires. Buy the 18 to 12 awg wire size tap. These taps are somewhat large so I would recommend the black color, if they can be seen they won't look like what they really are.

Install these taps from the comfort and convenience of your own garage or farm it out to your trusted mechanic. Once these are installed all you need to carry is a short jumper wire and a small flashlight. Should you have a melt down all you have to do is insert the jumper wire and twist the collars. Done. If you have to leave your bike and want to make it secure all you need to do is take the jumper wire with you.

I'm only recommending this as a more convenient emergency field band aid, you still should seek a proper fix.

Clickable Pic

ionbeam said:

I would like to add an alternative way to hot wire your FJR
In advance of a failure purchase a pair of Posi Lock taps and install them on the red and brown wires. Buy the 18 to 12 awg wire size tap. These taps are somewhat large so I would recommend the black color, if they can be seen they won't look like what they really are.

Install these taps from the comfort and convenience of your own garage or farm it out to your trusted mechanic. Once these are installed all you need to carry is a short jumper wire and a small flashlight. Should you have a melt down all you have to do is insert the jumper wire and twist the collars. Done. If you have to leave your bike and want to make it secure all you need to do is take the jumper wire with you.

I'm only recommending this as a more convenient emergency field band aid, you still should seek a proper fix.

Click to expand...

Very cool looking. Please bear with me, and see if I have this right. You put one posi-tap on the red, and another on the brown wire and leave them. If a failure occurs down the road, you then have a proper gauge wire stripped on both ends prepared, which you then use to connect the two positaps. Then you are good to go until you get home. Do I have that right? Seems too easy. Any downsides? TIA.

S-P-U, you've got it right. The only thing you may want to do is put a piece of tape over the open end to keep the elements out. Simply unscrew the splice end, put the pre-prepared jumper wire through the cap and into the body of the Posi Lock and screw the cap down. Much better than the 3M blue taco connectors and no tools or stripping of the main wires like the crimp type. 100% reversible when Yamaha comes out with a quality replacement switch.

Here are the install instructions:

Clickable Pic

ionbeam said:

S-P-U, you've got it right. The only thing you may want to do is put a piece of tape over the open end to keep the elements out. Simply unscrew the splice end, put the pre-prepared jumper wire through the cap and into the body of the Posi Lock and screw the cap down. Much better than the 3M blue taco connectors and no tools or stripping of the main wires like the crimp type. 100% reversible when Yamaha comes out with a quality replacement switch.
Here are the install instructions:

Clickable Pic

Click to expand...

Ion, you know that I usually agree with you and I like the "go prepared" concept. But not with pre-installing hardware. Any time that the copper is exposed is a chance for corrosion to start and especially for those of us who regularly ride in the rain. Further, 9 out of 10 people (even licensed mechanics) damage the copper when they play with a wire in any way. Since only a minority of FJRs will have an ignition failure and installing the taps add potential failure modes, I'd suggest a mod on what you wrote.

What I've done is to throw one of those Dollar-Store disposable plastic razor-knives in the tool kit, ready to strip the two wires if needed, but I won't do it unless there is a reason. (I usually have a Leatherman tool in there, too.) Throw in a set of your taps and you're ready. Personally, I carry one of those cheap disposable little squeeze lights for night and a jumper wire with alligator clips that is as heavy as the original wires.

Bob

Checkswrecks said:

ionbeam said:

S-P-U, you've got it right. The only thing you may want to do is put a piece of tape over the open end to keep the elements out. Simply unscrew the splice end, put the pre-prepared jumper wire through the cap and into the body of the Posi Lock and screw the cap down. Much better than the 3M blue taco connectors and no tools or stripping of the main wires like the crimp type. 100% reversible when Yamaha comes out with a quality replacement switch.
Here are the install instructions:

Clickable Pic

Click to expand...

Ion, you know that I usually agree with you and I like the "go prepared" concept. But not with pre-installing hardware. Any time that the copper is exposed is a chance for corrosion to start and especially for those of us who regularly ride in the rain. Further, 9 out of 10 people (even licensed mechanics) damage the copper when they play with a wire in any way. Since only a minority of FJRs will have an ignition failure and installing the taps add potential failure modes, I'd suggest a mod on what you wrote.

What I've done is to throw one of those Dollar-Store disposable plastic razor-knives in the tool kit, ready to strip the two wires if needed, but I won't do it unless there is a reason. (I usually have a Leatherman tool in there, too.) Throw in a set of your taps and you're ready. Personally, I carry one of those cheap disposable little squeeze lights for night and a jumper wire with alligator clips that is as heavy as the original wires.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob,

Could you clarify? Unless I'm misunderstanding, it appears from Ion's description that the only time copper is exposed is after the jumper wire's been used, which presupposes that the ignition has failed. So preinstalling the female parts just saves you time and maybe fumbling in the dark.

And thanks, Ion, for an elegant solution.

The tap does make a weather tight (not proof) seal, plus the area where the taps would be going is fairly sheltered. There is a seal between the main tap and the jumper tap. The piercing point is supposed to separate the wires, not cut them.

While there may be some risk as Checkswrecks points out, IMO it is fairly small for the convenience of the repair while on the road at a time or place not of your choosing. Besides, the wires coming from the switch will be replaced with Yamaha's newly designed ignition switch soon

ionbeam said:

... when Yamaha comes out with a quality replacement switch.

Click to expand...

And right there, ionbeam says the magic phrase. If these failures prove not to be a manufacturing process defect, i.e., an ill-trained assembly worker or mis-calibrated soldering jig, and are in fact an actual design defect, we're going to be waiting a while on that replacement switch. Design, prototyping, testing, refining, more testing, tooling, production, QA, etc., can (and will) take months. If anyone is expecting an immediate fix, don't. It won't happen.

1. 2006

2. 21992

3. Accelerating up on-ramp

4. Appears wires pulled loose. Moving them around restores power. Found brown wire came off inside switch.

5. Repaired it myself.

6. 3 days

7. Out of warranty

8. Starcom1 Advance, Garmin GPS, Aux Lights, Gerbings heated gear all thru relay triggered by running lights, main power direct from battery.

9. -

10. Was unable to meet up with group going to North Rim of the Grand Canyon.

ionbeam said:

The tap does make a weather tight (not proof) seal, plus the area where the taps would be going is fairly sheltered. There is a seal between the main tap and the jumper tap. The piercing point is supposed to separate the wires, not cut them.
While there may be some risk as Checkswrecks points out, IMO it is fairly small for the convenience of the repair while on the road at a time or place not of your choosing. Besides, the wires coming from the switch will be replaced with Yamaha's newly designed ignition switch soon

Click to expand...

How about filling the Posi-Tap with dialectic grease prior to making the connection. It seems like this would make the tapped connection pretty much risk free.

How hard is it to get to the proper portion of the ignition switch harness to install this backup?

To get access to the wires you have to lift the tank. I'm not sure of the layout for a Gen II, but on my Gen I the wires are right at the steering stem part of the main frame. At home it's simple. On the road, beside the road it's an adventure.

1) What year FJR? 2003

2) How many miles? 137,000

3) Failed while turning ignition

4) Type of failure: Switch failure

5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer: Desert Valley Power Sports will repair the bike and then it will be traded in for a 2008

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service? It's still there. We dropped it off on Monday 8/18 & they are just now getting to it.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? It will be paid for by us. With 135k miles on the bike, somethings gonna wear out eventually

8) Non-OEM accessories added that contribute to electrical draw: heattroller for Gerbings gear, HID low beam, HID driving lights, Starcom, radar detector, GPS

9) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? We're going to let the dealer deal with that, we're getting a new bike

10) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure.

1500 miles from home on a Sunday, no dealer open, we hadn't paid attention to this thread to know that it was a big problelm. Ended up renting a u-haul to get home because the town we were in had no dealer and it was a Sunday morning. We needed to get home for work by Monday evening. Cost over $2000.00 to rent the truck and pay for fuel.