Riding Techniques, Tips and Questions

Toecutter · Jan 31, 2006

Kinda like the politics of turn carving. I'm thinking we could have some good discussions/debates/arguments about the quickest & safest way to get down the road and back.

Another good discussion here, relating to the safest way to avoid contact with errant oncoming vehicles.

Also, this is a good guideline for street riding. Keeps the fun AND the perspective:

The Pace

Ignacio · Jan 31, 2006

Actually, I think this technical discussion thread is the place for it.....unless or until it devolves. Since you make first mention of the subject that I can remember in a long while....I'd say you should start up a new topic and lets watch traffic. No need to create new forums unless traffic warrants.

madmike2 · Feb 1, 2006

Or, you could go buy a book like:

"Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling", David Hough

"Motorcycling Excelence" from MSF

"Smooth Riding", Reg Pridmore

"Sport Riding Techniques", Nick Ienatsch

""A Twist of the Wrist" and "A Twist of the Wrist II", Keith Code

At least that's a start!

BTW, I'm on my 3rd time through the first two listed, and still trying to learn and apply the information.

OrangevaleFJR · Feb 1, 2006

I think the forum members should donate money to buy FO test FJR's for us to see where the limits are without ruining our own bikes. Then we can write those books.

JimLor · Feb 1, 2006

I gotta tip from something I learned this morning. Don't push your Entomytic ER6i plugs deep into your ears and then put on a helmet liner and helmet. Earplugs were so damn deep in my head my nose was plugged up. And the only way I could get sound from the left speaker was to tilt my head down and to the left - listened to mono for 42 miles! Probably not the tips you're looking for huh?

Toecutter · Feb 1, 2006

I think the forum members should donate money to buy FO test FJR's for us to see where the limits are without ruining our own bikes. Then we can write those books.

If you don't mind scratched cans, alternator covers and slider pucks it's not that hard to find the limit of adhesion in a parking lot. Maybe they'll set THAT up at WFO! Someone could bring a salvaged bike and we could all pitch in for the repair bill once we're done. Hey, Turbo Dave's gettin' a new bike! Pay it forward, good buddy!

Don't push your Entomytic ER6i plugs deep into your ears and then put on a helmet liner and helmet. Earplugs were so damn deep in my head my nose was plugged up. And the only way I could get sound from the left speaker was to tilt my head down and to the left - listened to mono for 42 miles!

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Or, you could go buy a book like:"Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling", David Hough

"Motorcycling Excelence" from MSF

"Smooth Riding", Reg Pridmore

"Sport Riding Techniques", Nick Ienatsch

""A Twist of the Wrist" and "A Twist of the Wrist II", Keith Code

I own three of those already, plus Total Control by Lee Parks and I've taken his clinic, but I didn't start this thing to share my vast expertise with the less talented. I was hopin' to get some help. I also own several golf books and still struggle to keep the scores in double digits. Or do you actually have to READ the books?

O.K. first two questions:

1. If you go down, when is it best to stay with the bike and when should you kick away?

2. When "hanging off", should it feel like you are holding the bike more upright and dragging it around the corner, or what?

vectervp1 · Feb 1, 2006

O.K. first two questions:1. If you go down, when is it best to stay with the bike and when should you kick away?

2. When "hanging off", should it feel like you are holding the bike more upright and dragging it around the corner, or what?

1. With the minimal (thank god) experience I have in being separated from my bike while under way, your not really going to have time to do much. You and your motorcycle are going to slide at different rates. I honestly think people think too much about what to do in that half second before you loose all control.

When I had my low-side the bike's front end washed out on me. One moment I was looking hard right leaning half off the bike, next thing I felt was a hard pull at the bars making me let go and my shoulder hitting the asphalt. I looked down and saw the bike sliding down the road and me sliding after it! I managed to stay on my back most of the way until I clipped a road puck (reflector) and started tumbling. Because of the tumble, I got some road rash on my knees (wearing jeans) and hit my helmet where my temple is.

2. Yes. Part of the reason for hanging off the bike is to hold it more upright and give the tire a larger contact patch. If you consistently ride hard and have no chicken strips on your tires, you should consider hanging off the bike a bit. This will shift the center of gravity and will allow the bike to stay more upright during the turn.

Shadowfax · Feb 1, 2006

>1. If you go down, when is it best to stay with the bike and when should you kick away?

If you're on the ground and sliding, try to slide away. If you are not on the ground yet, apply brake as long as possible as tire/brake->ashpalt friction is considerably higher than denim->asphalt and skin->asphalt friction.

>2. When "hanging off", should it feel like you are holding the bike more upright and dragging it around the corner, or what?

It should not feel like you are dragging it around the corner, it should feel like you and the bike are working together. Relaxing is more important (and harder to do) then hanging off. With centrifical forces, you should feel like you're still on "top" of the bike. IMO.

Try picking one thing to work on at a time, and remind yourself before the corner what you are working on.

Toecutter · Feb 2, 2006

When "hanging off", should it feel like you are holding the bike more upright and dragging it around the corner, or what?

Yes. Part of the reason for hanging off the bike is to hold it more upright and give the tire a larger contact patch. If you consistently ride hard and have no chicken strips on your tires, you should consider hanging off the bike a bit. This will shift the center of gravity and will allow the bike to stay more upright during the turn.

It should not feel like you are dragging it around the corner, it should feel like you and the bike are working together. Relaxing is more important (and harder to do) then hanging off. With centrifical forces, you should feel like you're still on "top" of the bike. IMO.

O.K. Sounds like conflicting info. maybe I was a bit confusing with my description. Obviously, I'm not really going to be able to "drag" a 600 lb. bike anywhere, much less one that's in motion a different direction than I want to go. It seems to me that it doesn't matter how relaxed I am when I lean over far enough to run out of ground clearance and start scraping hard parts. I guess I could just go slower, or buy a slower bike. BTW, neither is an attractive option for me. In order to gain ground clearance, I feel like I'm getting the best results when I shift my whole body, upper and lower, to the inside of the turn and down toward the ground. Then I can kind of push the bike more upright and carry more speed through the turn without scraping hard parts and thereby risking a lowside. It also feels more solid to move toward the front of the bike, to balance the weight between the front and back tires. Kinda like a sport bike position on a touring bike. Am I headed in the right direction here? Don't want to practice bad habits, practice makes permanent. Anybody with some actual race-winning experience here that can chime in? Or otherwise experienced credentials? I'm tryin' to get safer and still have some fun. Winter chill keeps Eve from tagging along, and the mouse won't be able to play much longer before things warm up in these parts.

JimLor · Feb 2, 2006

I'll never pose as a parts draggin' expert on this topic, but Toecutter - your last post is spot on as I understand it. "Total Control" (Lee Parks) and "Twist of the Wrist II" (sorry, forgot the author) are both great books that delve into the details of cornering, physics, and how to do it correctly. I've tried the technique a few times and it really does work...again, those above are two great books on the subject.

Shadowfax · Feb 2, 2006

Couple books for you

Smooth Riding

Twist of the Wrist series

>>

In order to gain ground clearance, I feel like I'm getting the best results when I shift my whole body, upper and lower, to the inside of the turn and down toward the ground.

It also feels more solid to move toward the front of the bike, to balance the weight between the front and back tires.

>>

Sounds like a good description of how I ride when aggressive. Note that you didn't mention "dragging" the bike this time - you should not feel like you are forcing it.

Drop the inside elbow

Point the inside shoulder towards the corner

Make sure all your weight is on the inside peg - (to check, lift the outside foot off the peg. don't ride like that, just check you form once in a while)

Look through the corner (remember, you go where you look)

Tilt your head to keep the horizon level through the corner

Relax

Be smooth on the throttle, clutch and brake. Get a passanger and ride around town. If you ever bump helmets you need more practive being smooth.

Find an open road. ride at 40MPH. Shift up and down through all gears until you can do it smoothly and evenly, matching engine speed to road speed to clutch action

Go to a track day or school and follow a smooth guy around.

I'll be hitting CLASS at Road America and Barber this year - come on out and get some good advice/training/practice

Shadowfax · Feb 2, 2006

One more, if you need more ground clearance - get on the gas. Brake early and get a little on the throttle just before the apex.

Toecutter · Feb 2, 2006

I'll be hitting CLASS at Road America and Barber this year - come on out and get some good advice/training/practice

That sounds like a good time. I'll definitely look into going, probably in the fall. Thanks to all you guys for all the tips and help!

OrangevaleFJR · Feb 2, 2006

I'll be hitting CLASS at Road America and Barber this year - come on out and get some good advice/training/practice

Click to expand...

That sounds like a good time. I'll definitely look into going, probably in the fall. Thanks to all you guys for all the tips and help!

I skipped over TC's topic...I support creating a new section called:

"Riding Techniques, Tips and Questions"

Or something like that.

Toecutter · Feb 2, 2006

I skipped over TC's topic...I support creating a new section called:
"Riding Techniques, Tips and Questions"

Or something like that.

Great, two votes. That oughta do it. :clap:

Fallen Jim Rides again · Feb 2, 2006

Make it three.

At least a sub topic or sumpin?

Just the kind of thing I was looking for. and the input from different riders, sometimes just that they say things a little differently, helps my understanding lots.

I def need to ride more smoothly, but I just love the feel of that torque coming on in each gear

bikerskier · Feb 4, 2006

Here is another vote for a Riding Tips Section. I hope I never quit learning!

Toecutter · Feb 4, 2006

Okay, let's roll. Next issue, line selection. According to most books, technique has you cutting across the lane, through the apex and back across the lane to exit. Great for the track, but not for me. Even with my limited group riding experience, I've seen some pretty squidly and scarey riding. And, I was recently told a story by a friend who had witnessed a biker decapitation on our local foothill roads (guess how). I've also seen some of the best riding skill there is, and developed my own style accordingly.

In the twisties, I try to pretty much stay in the right side tire track. I've found that the middle of the lane tends to be a gathering place for debris. I'll sacrifice a bit of downrange vision on the right-handers. If I do overcook the entry a bit, there's a bit of a margin to run wide without entering the oncoming lane. On left-handers, I leave a little room in case the oncoming vehicle runs a bit wide and into my lane. It's not guaranteed foolproof, or the fastest way to the gas station, but I figure it's the best way to maximize the odds into my favor.

Feedback? Corrections? Additions? Criticism? Cheap shots?

I skipped over TC's topic...I support creating a new section called:
"Riding Techniques, Tips and Questions"

Or something like that.

I'd add "Safety practices", or something like that.

OrangevaleFJR · Feb 4, 2006

I would add that on your left hand turns, although you sacrafice some fudge factor by riding on the right side of the road, you also a better view of where you are going so you have more time to set your speed and adjust if necessary. The risk is, of course, entering too fast without the line set up that gives you room to correct. If you blow it, you're in the dirt, or something harder. This is where mixing the slow entry with roll on technique saves us!

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