Thanks and Goodbye

Maddog · Aug 26, 2009

Today the shipper will be picking up my FJR to deliver to its new owner. After my little accident in March I've just never felt the same on it, so it's gone. I just wanted to thank everyone on the forum and especially the mods for creating such a great community.

By the way, the new owner is my brother so I thought I should make sure the bike is at least in reasonable mechanical condition before I ship it to him. So I had the shop put in a new timing chain, adjuster and guides. Then just to make sure everything was okay, I had them do a compression check. Let's put it like this, Yamaha has limits on fixing tickers. At 86,000 they said they would not cover bad exhaust guides and burnt valves (all of the exhaust valve guides were bad, one valve was completely burnt and the other valves were in poor condition). Yamaha was zero help despite efforts by the dealer to get them to at least provide free parts. It was a disappointing end to an otherwise great ownership experience.

Thanks and goodbye

Maddog

Fred W · Aug 26, 2009

At 86,000 miles those valves don't owe you anything. I would never have expected any help out of warranty for a bike with that kinda miles. Just tell your Bro to keep riding it till it really needs to be fixed.

[edit] One quick question since you mentioned burnt valves: Did you have the clearances checked by the schedule? And were the clearances in or out of spec now?

And good luck in your future.

Maddog · Aug 26, 2009

Fred W said:
At 86,000 miles those valves don't owe you anything. I would never have expected any help out of warranty for a bike with that kinda miles. Just tell your Bro to keep riding it till it really needs to be fixed.
[edit] One quick question since you mentioned burnt valves: Did you have the clearances checked by the schedule? And were the clearances in or out of spec now?

And good luck in your future.

My point in mentioning the valves is that they are a known weakness in early FJR engines. I have heard it said that Yamaha has always stepped up to take care of tickers. In my personal opinion I believe the valve train should last longer than 86,000 miles. Yamaha disagrees.

With regards to maintenance, I had the bike maintained EXACTLY to the factory schedule including valve adjustments. At 26,600 miles all valves were within spec. At 52,000 one valve was out of spec and it was adjusted to bring it back to spec. At 76,000 miles one valve was out of spec and it was adjusted to bring it into spec. All valve checks and adjustments were performed by reputable Yamaha dealers.

I'm not sure what the valve clearances were when I took in for the recent work. I vaguely recall the mechanic saying that the valves were in spec and that there must be some other reason for low compression in cylinder 3. The reason turned out to be the burnt valve.

Fred W · Aug 26, 2009

OK, that is very interesting.

Exhaust valves don't generally burn up because of a loose guide or seal. That is what the ticker fix is all about.

They usually burn up because they are left open. It would have had to be making a gawd awful racket for the guide to be loose enough to cause the valve to not close and burn up.

You say this diagnosis was done preventively? How good was the engine running prior? Why not just keep running it until you have a real problem?

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

Maddog said:
Today the shipper will be picking up my FJR to deliver to its new owner. After my little accident in March I've just never felt the same on it, so it's gone. I just wanted to thank everyone on the forum and especially the mods for creating such a great community.
By the way, the new owner is my brother so I thought I should make sure the bike is at least in reasonable mechanical condition before I ship it to him. So I had the shop put in a new timing chain, adjuster and guides. Then just to make sure everything was okay, I had them do a compression check. Let's put it like this, Yamaha has limits on fixing tickers. At 86,000 they said they would not cover bad exhaust guides and burnt valves (all of the exhaust valve guides were bad, one valve was completely burnt and the other valves were in poor condition). Yamaha was zero help despite efforts by the dealer to get them to at least provide free parts. It was a disappointing end to an otherwise great ownership experience.

Thanks and goodbye

Maddog

you may know my head grenaded as the bike did a RadioHowie/Ionbeam...I see you also have an '04

can I ask where and how much the work on the head cost you and how long the bike was down

maybe RadioHowie and I should consider shipping the head somewhere that does good work like that

I can't seem to find anyone around here I trust with pulling my head and rebuilding it, but I'm open to it as a possibility

Maddog · Aug 26, 2009

Fred - I'm just repeating what the mechanic told me. I don't know how one "burns" a valve. The mechanic said it was related to the valve guide. There was some minor noise but nothing major. With respect to your question about "just keep running it until you have a real problem?" the buyer is my brother. I try not to screw relatives. It just seemed prudent to have a compression check done (if I were a buyer of any vehicle with 86k I would ask for a compression check before purchasing).

Patriot - I had the work done at Yamaha Rancho Cucamonga in SoCal. I have been satisfied with their work. I originally went there based on the recommendation of others on this forum. I think it was TurboDave that uses them.

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:

new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Since my accident I haven't followed the forum very close. I didn't know there had been two more grenaded engines. It was Ionbeam's experience that made me so cautious about the engine and replacing parts well before failure. Sorry to hear about your engine. Good luck getting it repaired/replaced.

Fred W · Aug 26, 2009

Good on ya getting it fixed up for your Bro. I dinm't catch that you had already fixed it up.

When you said he was the new owner I thought you gave it to him. Didn't realize it was a sale.

I just hope the work was really needed and not just the mechanic drumming up some extra work for their shop.

FWIW, I would never ever sell anything to a relative or good personal friend. There is just no upside. OTOH, I did give a bike to my BIL once before. A '75 Zook GT550. That bike was a real pisser

Take care.

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

Maddog said:
Fred - I'm just repeating what the mechanic told me. I don't know how one "burns" a valve. The mechanic said it was related to the valve guide. There was some minor noise but nothing major. With respect to your question about "just keep running it until you have a real problem?" the buyer is my brother. I try not to screw relatives. It just seemed prudent to have a compression check done (if I were a buyer of any vehicle with 86k I would ask for a compression check before purchasing).
Patriot - I had the work done at Yamaha Rancho Cucamonga in SoCal. I have been satisfied with their work. I originally went there based on the recommendation of others on this forum. I think it was TurboDave that uses them.

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:

new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Since my accident I haven't followed the forum very close. I didn't know there had been two more grenaded engines. It was Ionbeam's experience that made me so cautious about the engine and replacing parts well before failure. Sorry to hear about your engine. Good luck getting it repaired/replaced.

damn, I wish my bike grenaded in Rancho as that's where the Run For The Wall ride began. I'd just need a crystal ball to have gone there 2 weeks early and find someone who is willing to put up lil ole me.

$2600 for the engine plus fixing the other things Isabella needs like steering head bearings, I probably could raise $3k and have my bike on the road. Maybe I'll call around some more and find somebody who I believe would do a good job for about your amount of $$$ within 100 miles or so from New Orleans.

Anybody have some advice on finding a competent shop to rebuild my head from start to finish ???

Mcgyver74 · Aug 26, 2009

MadDog,

Sorry to hear your woe's with Mamma Yamma and sorry that you had to get rid of the bike,

But, Even though you are not riding a Feej anymore, who says you can't stay around and still hang with us on the forum (and off the forum

)

Would hate to see ya go!

johnny80s · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
Maddog said:

Fred - I'm just repeating what the mechanic told me. I don't know how one "burns" a valve. The mechanic said it was related to the valve guide. There was some minor noise but nothing major. With respect to your question about "just keep running it until you have a real problem?" the buyer is my brother. I try not to screw relatives. It just seemed prudent to have a compression check done (if I were a buyer of any vehicle with 86k I would ask for a compression check before purchasing).
Patriot - I had the work done at Yamaha Rancho Cucamonga in SoCal. I have been satisfied with their work. I originally went there based on the recommendation of others on this forum. I think it was TurboDave that uses them.

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:

new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Since my accident I haven't followed the forum very close. I didn't know there had been two more grenaded engines. It was Ionbeam's experience that made me so cautious about the engine and replacing parts well before failure. Sorry to hear about your engine. Good luck getting it repaired/replaced.

Click to expand...

damn, I wish my bike grenaded in Rancho as that's where the Run For The Wall ride began. I'd just need a crystal ball to have gone there 2 weeks early and find someone who is willing to put up lil ole me.

$2600 for the engine plus fixing the other things Isabella needs like steering head bearings, I probably could raise $3k and have my bike on the road. Maybe I'll call around some more and find somebody who I believe would do a good job for about your amount of $$$ within 100 miles or so from New Orleans.

Anybody have some advice on finding a competent shop to rebuild my head from start to finish ???

Trailer it out here Mike. Make it a road trip.

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

Maddog said:
The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Maddog...was the above price calulated on having the dealer do ALL the disassembly and reassembly? Or was the $2600 just for the head work alone?

The reason I ask, if the price doesn't include tearing the bike apart, it might be advantageous to having my cylinder head rebuilt, if the price is right, rather than trying to find a reasonably low mileaged Gen I complete motor for my '04.

radman · Aug 26, 2009

RadioHowie said:
Maddog said:

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Click to expand...

Maddog...was the above price calulated on having the dealer do ALL the disassembly and reassembly? Or was the $2600 just for the head work alone?

The reason I ask, if the price doesn't include tearing the bike apart, it might be advantageous to having my cylinder head rebuilt, if the price is right, rather than trying to find a reasonably low mileaged Gen I complete motor for my '04.

Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

radman said:
RadioHowie said:

Maddog said:

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Click to expand...

Maddog...was the above price calulated on having the dealer do ALL the disassembly and reassembly? Or was the $2600 just for the head work alone?

The reason I ask, if the price doesn't include tearing the bike apart, it might be advantageous to having my cylinder head rebuilt, if the price is right, rather than trying to find a reasonably low mileaged Gen I complete motor for my '04.

Click to expand...

Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

That's what I was wonderin', if Maddog's price included teardown of the entire bike. If not, as you suggest, I box up my head, send it to a reputable cylinder head remanufacturer, and get it back ready to re-install, crank and drive. Assuming no piston damage.

Still trying the get the "Boomerangs" (grown-up kids who returned to the nest) to get their shit outta my way in the garage so I can get back to work.

And people wonder why I hate children! :blink: :angry2: :dribble:

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

I received an email response to my questions from Larry da Maddog (I think he's gone now) saying he thought the shop was very professional, competent, and wanting to do the right thing by him. He was very satisfied but mentioned this kind of repair or work is not inexpensive.

He pretty much said that he trailered the bike to them, they fixed it, and he picked up the bike after a successful test ride.

He also asked how many miles were on my bike...the higher, the less reason to fix it instead of replace it. He seems to think that anything around 80-100k, he would replace the whole bike and part out the old one.

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

RadioHowie said:
radman said:

RadioHowie said:

Maddog said:

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Click to expand...

Maddog...was the above price calulated on having the dealer do ALL the disassembly and reassembly? Or was the $2600 just for the head work alone?

The reason I ask, if the price doesn't include tearing the bike apart, it might be advantageous to having my cylinder head rebuilt, if the price is right, rather than trying to find a reasonably low mileaged Gen I complete motor for my '04.

Click to expand...

Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

Click to expand...

That's what I was wonderin', if Maddog's price included teardown of the entire bike. If not, as you suggest, I box up my head, send it to a reputable cylinder head remanufacturer, and get it back ready to re-install, crank and drive. Assuming no piston damage.

Still trying the get the "Boomerangs" (grown-up kids who returned to the nest) to get their shit outta my way in the garage so I can get back to work.

And people wonder why I hate children! :blink: :angry2: :dribble:

Ionbeam mentioned a VERY important point: carefully check the lower cam chain sprocket which is welded on the end of the crank and not replaceable without replacking the whole crank. We / I need to careful examine it for any damage at all and for lack of wear on the teeth...i.e. no shiny areas of wear and the teeth sticking out through the chain. A bad lower timing chain sprocket on the crank makes the repair a no go IMHO.

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
Ionbeam mentioned a VERY important point: carefully check the lower cam chain sprocket which is welded on the end of the crank and not replaceable without replacking the whole crank. We / I need to careful examine it for any damage at all and for lack of wear on the teeth...i.e. no shiny areas of wear and the teeth sticking out through the chain. A bad lower timing chain sprocket on the crank makes the repair a no go IMHO.

Two teeth were busted clean off, but JB Weld got that fixed right up.

:lol2:

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

RadioHowie said:
That's what I was wonderin', if Maddog's price included teardown of the entire bike. If not, as you suggest, I box up my head, send it to a reputable cylinder head remanufacturer, and get it back ready to re-install, crank and drive. Assuming no piston damage.

Here's a deal Howie...I'll trailer mine to your palace in Florida...I'll pay for your head work if you do the same to mine...side by side...OK ???

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

Click to expand...

RadioHowie said:

That's what I was wonderin', if Maddog's price included teardown of the entire bike. If not, as you suggest, I box up my head, send it to a reputable cylinder head remanufacturer, and get it back ready to re-install, crank and drive. Assuming no piston damage.

Click to expand...

Here's a deal Howie...I'll trailer mine to your palace in Florida...I'll pay for your head work if you do the same to mine...side by side...OK ???

I'm lookin'....REAL HARD....to find a "plus" in this suggestion.

chrisflock · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
RadioHowie said:

radman said:

RadioHowie said:

Maddog said:

The work cost $2600, took less than one week, and included the following:new timing chain

new timing chain adjuster (CCT)

new timing chain guides

8 new exhaust valves

8 new exhaust valve guides

16 new valve seals

1 spark plug wire receptacle (repair unrelated to valve work)

labor

Click to expand...

Maddog...was the above price calulated on having the dealer do ALL the disassembly and reassembly? Or was the $2600 just for the head work alone?

The reason I ask, if the price doesn't include tearing the bike apart, it might be advantageous to having my cylinder head rebuilt, if the price is right, rather than trying to find a reasonably low mileaged Gen I complete motor for my '04.

Click to expand...

Pull the head yourself, you're looking at about $1200.

Click to expand...

That's what I was wonderin', if Maddog's price included teardown of the entire bike. If not, as you suggest, I box up my head, send it to a reputable cylinder head remanufacturer, and get it back ready to re-install, crank and drive. Assuming no piston damage.

Still trying the get the "Boomerangs" (grown-up kids who returned to the nest) to get their shit outta my way in the garage so I can get back to work.

And people wonder why I hate children! :blink: :angry2: :dribble:

Click to expand...

Ionbeam mentioned a VERY important point: carefully check the lower cam chain sprocket which is welded on the end of the crank and not replaceable without replacking the whole crank. We / I need to careful examine it for any damage at all and for lack of wear on the teeth...i.e. no shiny areas of wear and the teeth sticking out through the chain. A bad lower timing chain sprocket on the crank makes the repair a no go IMHO.

Whoah, I just saw this...when did you motor blow up? Did the cam chain break?

Did I miss the thread about that?

Thanks and Goodbye

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