Gen 1 Valve Cover Removal

markjenn · Jun 24, 2010

Doing first valve check on a Gen1 at 29K and I'm having a heck of a time getting the valve cover off. I've got the AIR system removed, the coolant pipe off, the wires and cables mostly out of the way, but I can't get the front edge of the valve cover to lift enough to clear so that I can rotate the thing out of there. It's loose and comes up, but not high enough. I gather then you need to get the right side up first so you can rotate it clockwise a few degrees and get it out from under the throttle cables, but something is hanging it up. Anything I should be looking for?

I've left the thermostat housing in and that isn't making life easier, but I don't think this is what is causing the problem.

- Mark

markjenn · Jun 25, 2010

Never mind - just got it off. It was hung up in the right hand corner by one of the stupid hoses for the radiator overflow tank - there is a plastic piece under the steering head that has cutouts for these hoses and they can hold them quite firmly against the upward movement of the valve cover.

What a royal PITA.

- Mark

Peter Murray · Jun 25, 2010

Mark I just did the valve check on my 08 yesterday. May I suggest disconnecting the throttle cabels at the grip so you can rotate the cabel out of the way for reinstall. This way you can have a straight shot placing the valve cover on and not dislodging the gasket...

CCook82 · Jun 25, 2010

Mark, couple of years back, I spent about two hours on my 05 with the same problem. Going around to the front and getting low and looking things over is what helped. Glad you got er done.

And Peter,I will be doing a later model this winter. Good tip on the throttle cables. Thanks. Cliff

markjenn · Jun 25, 2010

CCook82 said:
Mark, couple of years back, I spent about two hours on my 05 with the same problem. Going around to the front and getting low and looking things over is what helped. Glad you got er done.

Yes, it's that right front corner that is critical.

And thanks for the suggestion about the throttle cables. I have them loose and one removed from the bracket, so I'm hopeful I can get it back without gasket issues.

FYI, the valves where in spec (see below), a couple just barely. But I'm not going to pull cams and source shims just because they're near a limit. Next time I'll probably have to adjust a few and this might be the time to put a new tensioner in.

Measurements (thousandth's of inch, as the valves sit in the head, left to right):

EX (7 to 10 acceptable): 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5, 8.0, 8.0

IN (6 to 9 acceptable): 7.0, 7.0, 6.0, 6.0, 6.5, 6.0, 7.0, 7.0

(If a feeler passes but a tight fit and the next smaller fits easily, I assume the clearance is about halfway between.)

I got to say it again - what a PITA this job is. Completely, totally, and absolutely ridiculous to have to go to this much trouble for routine maintenance. I wonder how many dealers "pencil whip" these inspections as I don't see how even a trained tech could do this in much under three or four hours and I'd bet 1 job out of 5 would break something. As much as I like my FJR, stuff like this may drive me to an RT for my next bike.

- Mark

charismaticmegafauna · Jun 25, 2010

markjenn said:
I got to say it again - what a PITA this job is. Completely, totally, and absolutely ridiculous to have to go to this much trouble for routine maintenance. I wonder how many dealers "pencil whip" these inspections as I don't see how even a trained tech could do this in much under three or four hours and I'd bet 1 job out of 5 would break something. As much as I like my FJR, stuff like this may drive me to an RT for my next bike.- Mark

You definitely don't want a Kawi C-14 Concours, then...

I heard a guy say (sarcastically) that he's waiting for a bike where you need to remove the crankshaft to adjust the valves.

(we're not too far from that...

)

There are currently, and have been -- over the years, bikes with hydraulic valve clearance adjusters (automatic adjustment) -- but, for whatever reason?, the technology doesn't seem to survive? The 1200cc Kawasaki Voyager XII touring-bike of about 20 years ago comes to mind.

wfooshee · Jun 25, 2010

markjenn said:
FYI, the valves where in spec (see below), a couple just barely. But I'm not going to pull cams and source shims just because they're near a limit.

"Barely" doesn't matter. They're in spec. It's possible that you can't get a shim small enough to adjust a "borderline" clearance and not make it worse!

markjenn · Jun 25, 2010

wfooshee said:
"Barely" doesn't matter. They're in spec. It's possible that you can't get a shim small enough to adjust a "borderline" clearance and not make it worse!

I'm with you man. While the shims are in small enough increments I could move a couple of my valves from the tight limit to nearer the middle, I have no interest in making a hard job harder. As you say, within spec is good to go another 26K in my book.

Just got the valve cover back on and there was more trickiness trying to get and confirm proper gasket seating on the right side with the half-moons. But I think I got it done. Fingers crossed on startup.

- Mark

markjenn · Jun 25, 2010

charismaticmegafauna said:
You definitely don't want a Kawi C-14 Concours, then... I heard a guy say (sarcastically) that he's waiting for a bike where you need to remove the crankshaft to adjust the valves.

(we're not too far from that... )

There are currently, and have been -- over the years, bikes with hydraulic valve clearance adjusters (automatic adjustment) -- but, for whatever reason?, the technology doesn't seem to survive? The 1200cc Kawasaki Voyager XII touring-bike of about 20 years ago comes to mind.

I've heard the C14 is worse, although that's hard to imagine.

I really fine bike that I once owned that had hydraulic lifters was an 1986 Honda 750 Nighthawk. I hear Honda still makes them for overseas markets, particularly police use.

If I had any sense, I'd have put a bigger handlebar fairing on it, kept it, rode it, and would be about $25K richer right now. Oh well.

The RT may be in my future - always admired the handling and nimbleness of this bike, and the power has been slowly creeping up over the years where it is no longer significantly slower than a FJR. It's got factory cruise too. They're now using shims, but the heads are super easy to get to. We'll see.

- Mark

wheatonFJR · Jun 25, 2010

Any other major problems on your FJR Mark?

You sound pissed enough to switch bikes...was there something else as well? Money must be no object to go Deutsch on us...

markjenn · Jun 25, 2010

wheatonFJR said:
Any other major problems on your FJR Mark?
You sound pissed enough to switch bikes...was there something else as well? Money must be no object to go Deutsch on us...

No, the FJR has been reliable as a train. But I like BMW's too and I've never had the issues that many have had with them. They're a bit more expensive, but in this class, no bike is really cheap, so the fact they are slightly more doesn't bother me. And I always have liked twins.

Mostly, I'm just in that "f*&(^ing bike" phase after wrestling with it during a major repair.... I've done a lot of valve work on various bikes and I've never had one that made me jump through hoops like this one just to get to the valve cover off - who had the brillant idea to put major coolant plumbing right over the valve cover? And make the side frame rails so wide that you can't get any access to the front of the cylinder head whatsoever. But time heals maintenance headaches, so my annoyance will probably pass. I depart on a 6K trip in a week or so and I'm sure that will restore the faith.

- Mark

gainsi · Jun 26, 2010

I've read this thread with interest as I'm due to do my Gen 1 soon. Only good thing is that it doesn't need doing very often !

It does sound like a PITA, but at least I'll know that i was done properly.

I'll be checking for leaks before putting it all back together, as that sounds like one of the pitfalls.

Have a great trip & re bond with your loved one !!

RadioHowie · Jun 26, 2010

Mark,

Next time, pull the motor. Makes valve checks a snap! :evil:

wfooshee · Jun 26, 2010

I just knew you were gonna say that!

RadioHowie · Jun 26, 2010

Well......it's true!

Zorlac · Jun 27, 2010

Someday I may check my valves, maybe.

Never read about a burnt feejer valve, but plenty of "I just did a valve check and now...."

The Japs are nuts, they want me to check the lash on my 2000 Sienna minivan, ain't ever gonna happen.

RadioHowie · Jun 27, 2010

Zorlac said:
Someday I may check my valves, maybe.Never read about a burnt feejer valve, but plenty of "I just did a valve check and now...."

The Japs are nuts, they want me to check the lash on my 2000 Sienna minivan, ain't ever gonna happen.

Isn't (wasn't?) Sienna one of the Spice Girls? :lol:

markjenn · Jun 27, 2010

Zorlac said:
Someday I may check my valves, maybe.Never read about a burnt feejer valve, but plenty of "I just did a valve check and now...."

Statistically, you make an interesting point - for the average owner whose machine is worked on by mechanics of average ability, there may be more risk associated with doing the repair than just doing nothing. Over big miles, you'd likely to be running a valve or three out of spec, but my guess is that a valve has to be way out of spec before it starts being a problem - either losing all clearance with overheating and compression problems, or having clearances open up where the valves starts getting hammered off its seat with seat erosion issues. (The latter would probably give noisy warning.) That being said, I doubt you'd get to the 200K miles without major engine work that some have reported by ignoring valve checks.

- Mark

charismaticmegafauna · Jun 27, 2010

markjenn said:
Zorlac said:

Someday I may check my valves, maybe.Never read about a burnt feejer valve, but plenty of "I just did a valve check and now...."

Click to expand...

Statistically, you make an interesting point - for the average owner whose machine is worked on by mechanics of average ability, there may be more risk associated with doing the repair than just doing nothing. Over big miles, you'd likely to be running a valve or three out of spec, but my guess is that a valve has to be way out of spec before it starts being a problem - either losing all clearance with overheating and compression problems, or having clearances open up where the valves starts getting hammered off its seat with seat erosion issues. (The latter would probably give noisy warning.) That being said, I doubt you'd get to the 200K miles without major engine work that some have reported by ignoring valve checks.

- Mark

Since we're now taking 'The Big View', the on-going valve-clearance condition is greatly dependent upon the quality (metallurgy) of the valve faces and seats. Once set-up/adjusted properly (and it appears most FJRs come that way...) high quality, durable/hard, valve faces and seats resist wear extremely well and often need little-to-no adjustment for the life of the valve. It wasn't long ago when the life of the valve was considerably less than the life of the engine -- now, that's not so much the case.

Things change -- in the case of the FJR, the use of (apparently?) excellent quality valves and seats has benefitted owners with long mileages between valve vlearance checks.

Still, it's always nice to know they're in proper adjustment...

Gen 1 Valve Cover Removal

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