Price quote for cylinder head rebuild

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

I probably should have posted this in the "Tech" section, but one of our Admins will know if it needs to be moved or not.

Perhaps I could have posted in the "Fund" thread, but I'm just too damned embarrassed to be seen there. Might start me misting up from all the love.

After reading Maddog's thread on selling his bike after having some $2600 worth of work done to it, I sent an email to Yamaha Rancho Cucamonga enquring about a cylinder head rebuild, to clear up any speculation about cost.

Here's what I got back:

PARTS

Int valves $15.81 each x 8 = $126.81

Exh Valves $33.94 each x 8 = $271.52

Guide seals $2.99 each x 16 = $47.84

Ex guides $33.59 each x 8 = $268.72

Int guides $47.96 each x 8 = $383.68

Guide Stops $.29 each x 16 = $4.64

Misc Shims to reset clearance $10.00

TOTAL PARTS = $1113.21 (Does not include any gaskets or reassembly parts)

LABOR

Replace guides (16) and re-cut seats (3 angles) $350.00

Disass and reass valve train and re shim as nec $150.00

TOTAL LABOR = $500.00

TOTAL EST $1613.21

Now this is a worst case scenario, assuming ALL 16 valves and guides need to be replaced and that there's no damage to the actual head itself, or to the pistons or bottom end.

So the $1200 Rad estimated in the above mentioned thread was damn close, assuming all the valves and guides didn't need replacing.

Even without further teardown at this point, I'm fairly confident the pistons and bottom end will be okay, since the catastrophe occured at idle speed, but that remains to be seen.

Plus, with the incredible assist from all you great folks contributing to the fund, at this point my out-of-pocket would only be for a new CCT, cam chain, head gasket, head bolts and header gaskets.

So right now, I'm at the decision-making phase.....get my cylinder head rebuilt, or R&R the entire motor for an eBay motor with questionable ancestry.

I sent a 2nd email asking about the possiblities and problems associated with a Gen II > Gen I transplant. Hope to hear from YOCRacing soon to get their take on the chances.

So I'm torn -- a rebuild or transplant.

Decisions...decisions...decisions!! <_<

johnny80s · Aug 26, 2009

I am glad this is all working out. I only live about an hour from Rancho Cucamonga so if you need anything let me know.

dsmack · Aug 26, 2009

I wonder if there might be a meaningful savings to be had working with Gary McCoy at Mondak Motorsports for the Yammy parts?

Might be worth a phone call to him to find out, eh?

Good luck, RH!

Don

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

wow, interesting, I just called around my riding peeps with engineering degrees and they all steered me to

Graves Cycle Repair in Tylertown, MS ...

Graves Cycle Repair

209 Oral Church Rd

Tylertown, MS 39667

601-876-2922

owner Tim says his son the super mechanic has rebuilt some and mostly replaced R1 engines as a common occurance

his shop has replaced over 100 engines over the years with 98% success rate the first time. He has a test bed that he can first do compression and leak down tests, and actually run the engine before installing it on the bike.

he's doesn't look for bare or stripped down engines...wants the rails and pipes, starter, valve cover, stator, clutch, etc so all he has to do is swap the engine and install the fuel injection system from what he said.

he has a good, productive relationship with a salvage engine broker in Alabama he has used for years with great success.

off the top of his head, he said a low mileage (20k is his target) engine might cost me $1200 and the labor to swap it $500 and that's on the high end. He's going by the dozens of Ninjas, R1, FZ1, Hayabusa, etc engines he's swapped when the squid rider blows it up.

he's going to call the broker to look for an engine for me and hopefully get back to me tomorrow

sounds like there's hope at an affordable price...it's possible I'm good to go for around $1500-$1700 with a 20k engine :yahoo:

and he said if I bring him my steering head bearings, he'd throw in replacing them in the process

he's seen my bike when I've gone there to keep Nick company, but I don't think he remembers my "custom" wiring :blink:

I'll keep ya posted

majicmaker · Aug 26, 2009

If you're comfortable with your "Bottom End" sort-a-speak! I'd rebuild in a New York Second!! :yahoo:

STL FJR · Aug 26, 2009

Think I'd be looking for a salvage if I were you. Too bad that '08 already sold from the Classifieds. You were a day late. :blink:

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
Graves Cycle Repair209 Oral Church Rd

Tylertown, MS 39667

601-876-2922

Great stuff, Mike. Hope you come up with a solution. Plus, I think I'll give them a call and ask about a cylinder head rebuild, costwise.

Theoretically, send them my head, see what needs to be replaced, then price the replacements from Gary McCoy.

Could be a wise way to go.

Thanks for the contact info.

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
wow, interesting, I just called around my riding peeps with engineering degrees and they all steered me toGraves Cycle Repair in Tylertown, MS ...

Graves Cycle Repair

209 Oral Church Rd

Tylertown, MS 39667

601-876-2922

owner Tim says his son the super mechanic has rebuilt some and mostly replaced R1 engines as a common occurance

his shop has replaced over 100 engines over the years with 98% success rate the first time. He has a test bed that he can first do compression and leak down tests, and actually run the engine before installing it on the bike.

he's doesn't look for bare or stripped down engines...wants the rails and pipes, starter, valve cover, stator, clutch, etc so all he has to do is swap the engine and install the fuel injection system from what he said.

he has a good, productive relationship with a salvage engine broker in Alabama he has used for years with great success.

he was quite strong in his opinion for me NOT to fix a 100k mile engine. Replace it with a 20k engine for better longevity and chance of success right off the bat. And he said minimally, I would spend the same to fix it as replace it for sure, and maybe a little less to replace. He said it's a no brainer (in my case of a 100k mile bike). He said the decision is harder for a 40 or 50k bike and probably the way to go on a 30k bike depending on parts price & availability and what's available in a engine.

off the top of his head, he said a low mileage (20k is his target) engine might cost me $1200 and the labor to swap it $500 and that's on the high end. He's going by the dozens of Ninjas, R1, FZ1, Hayabusa, etc engines he's swapped when the squid rider blows it up.

he's going to call the broker to look for an engine for me and hopefully get back to me tomorrow

Tim didn't even blink about my plight and he ability to get my bike back on the road to both our advantages

He says they can easily swap a engine in a day, or if there's other appointments for bike maintences for others, a day and a half max. I don't know what to expect in finding and he getting an engine; he says there's less ST engines out there compared to sport / crotch rocket engines since those guys crash often leaving an engine available.

sounds like there's hope at an affordable price...it's possible I'm good to go for around $1500-$1700 with a 20k engine :yahoo:

and he said if I bring him my steering head bearings, he'd throw in replacing them in the process

he's seen my bike when I've gone there to keep Nick company, but I don't think he remembers my "custom" wiring :blink:

I'll keep ya posted

Howie...you can understand this is available to you as well if you want to go that way...I will help you in any way I can including housing etc if that's what would help you. Gee, get the bike to me and go home. I'll trailer both of ours on my two bike trailer from my house and get them both fixed. Then I'll trailer them back to my home. Come get it either by trailer or fly and ride at your convenience. You can schedule a vacation to New Orlenas, stay at my home, and take ya bike when you want. Shoot, I live 5 minutes from the airport.

My buddies and I will even test ride it for some miles for ya. Jeff_Q has never ridden a Gen I. There ya go.

Just a thought...

RadioHowie · Aug 26, 2009

STL FJR said:
Think I'd be looking for a salvage if I were you. Too bad that '08 already sold from the Classifieds. You were a day late. :blink:

Yeah, but there's still the question of cross-generation compatibilities. Fairlaner bought himself a hell of a parts department for $1500.

majicmaker · Aug 26, 2009

Patriot said:
wow, interesting, I just called around my riding peeps with engineering degrees and they all steered me toGraves Cycle Repair in Tylertown, MS ...

Graves Cycle Repair

209 Oral Church Rd

Tylertown, MS 39667

601-876-2922

owner Tim says his son the super mechanic has rebuilt some and mostly replaced R1 engines as a common occurance

his shop has replaced over 100 engines over the years with 98% success rate the first time. He has a test bed that he can first do compression and leak down tests, and actually run the engine before installing it on the bike.

he's doesn't look for bare or stripped down engines...wants the rails and pipes, starter, valve cover, stator, clutch, etc so all he has to do is swap the engine and install the fuel injection system from what he said.

he has a good, productive relationship with a salvage engine broker in Alabama he has used for years with great success.

off the top of his head, he said a low mileage (20k is his target) engine might cost me $1200 and the labor to swap it $500 and that's on the high end. He's going by the dozens of Ninjas, R1, FZ1, Hayabusa, etc engines he's swapped when the squid rider blows it up.

he's going to call the broker to look for an engine for me and hopefully get back to me tomorrow

sounds like there's hope at an affordable price...it's possible I'm good to go for around $1500-$1700 with a 20k engine :yahoo:

and he said if I bring him my steering head bearings, he'd throw in replacing them in the process

he's seen my bike when I've gone there to keep Nick company, but I don't think he remembers my "custom" wiring :blink:

I'll keep ya posted

Sounds great Mike!! Can't beat that with a stick!! Good Luck! :clapping:

Patriot · Aug 26, 2009

STL FJR said:
Think I'd be looking for a salvage if I were you. Too bad that '08 already sold from the Classifieds. You were a day late. :blink:

'08 Gen II won't readily work in my '04 Gen I

the CCT and Cam Chain problems seem to be attacking Gen I's and mainly '04 's from what I've seen.

Howie, Ionbeam, and mine are all '04's

Maddog's is also an '04, but his problem seems to be an undiagnosed or repaired ticker

odot · Aug 28, 2009

I'd hep ya out RH but, floridians smell like old people. I say get a sportster and just change the oil every 10000 miles.....if yer using amsoil.

Fred W · Aug 28, 2009

Howie,

I know you already know this, but the head repair only makes sense after you have pulled the head and checked the pistons for damage and insured the lower end is sound. So your decision can't be made until you (or someone) goes through that process.

The alternative is that you just bite the bullet, go the salvage engine route like Patriot seems headed for, that way you'll know better what your expenses will be up front. This is assuming that Patriot's guy can find two low mileage 1st gen FJRs that haven't been cannibalized yet.

ionbeam · Aug 28, 2009

When we pulled the valve cover off my engine and saw the carnage, one of our first concerns was damage to parts in the lower engine. As a result we pulled the engine out and completely disassembled it. Everything got inspected and measured. The crank, all the plain bearings, rods, rod bearings, wrist pins, bearing caps and the pistons were gone through. The only things we found were stuck rings on 3 of 4 cylinders and very slight marks in the gunk on top of the pistons but nothing on the actual piston tops. The stuck rings were most likely independent of the crushing of my valve train. The other thing we had to carefully check was the cam chain gear on the end of the crankshaft. We had to have a Yamaha Regional Tech check that gear -- it turned out to be ok too. Don't overlook this gear because if it is bad you will have future problems. Also, this gear is part of the crankshaft and can not be replaced separately.

Based on a large sample group of ONE, it would probably be a good gamble that the bottom engine parts are going to be ok.

$1k to $1.2k for parts alone is about right. Since my cylinder head was damaged I had to replace it too, full retail would be ~$1.2k

When having new valve guides installed it is critical to have the valve seats either carefully inspected or machined.

radman · Aug 28, 2009

Fuckin bikes. I could do up a set of rect port BB Chev heads real nice for a Feej head costs to fix. Absurd. :glare:

Cavy · Aug 29, 2009

radman said:
Fuckin bikes. I could do up a set of rect port BB Chev heads real nice for a Feej head costs to fix. Absurd. :glare:

Yeah, but they'd still be Chevy heads.

user 213 · Aug 29, 2009

radman said:
Fuckin bikes. I could do up a set of rect port BB Chev heads real nice for a Feej head costs to fix. Absurd. :glare:

It's all about volume Radman. I once paid more for a bare MG head than the cost of a new 350 long block. That hurt!

Mcgyver74 · Aug 30, 2009

I think at this point before you spend any money on the heads, you should have the bottom end checked out by a good mechanic (a GOOD Yammie mechanic/dealer )

My thoughts are, if you pull the heads and covers off yourself before bringing it over, how much could they really charge you to go over the engine? I really can't see them charging you more then 200 bucks at most to check it out and tell you if the bottom end is toast... Then you can make a much more informed decision on Head Rebuild or salvage engine..

Yeah it's a PITA, but at this point, if your going to do it, might as well do it right

Just my 0.02...

RadioHowie · Aug 30, 2009

Mcgyver74 said:
how much could they really charge you to go over the engine? I really can't see them charging you more then 200 bucks at most to check it out and tell you if the bottom end is toast...

God bless you for being such a trusting, gullible little nimrod. This is a dealer we're talking about. They charge for air as "Shop Supplies" when you buy a new tire and have it installed.

Price quote for cylinder head rebuild

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