05 Clutch/Transmission Skip at Speed?

From Kapuskasing · May 19, 2006

It did it once before but I didn't really clue in until this evening. When I was doing 60 mph and I go to accelerate hard, it almost felt like an elastic band broke and a second one kicked in to cover for it - I don't know how else to describe it. It would accelerate, then quickly stall then go again. I repeated it a couple of times but it was raining here so I didn't want to check it at lower speeds. Other than that the bike seems fine. I've got 24,000 kms (14,000 miles) on it.

Any ideas? I'll be bringing it in to the shop tomorrow, but I've got a big trip planned for the first of June, so I'm hoping it's minor!

Thanks for any insight!

Jim

Geezer · May 19, 2006

Could be clutch slipping. Don't want to make it sound bad, but from your description is sounds like something in the gear box. There was a recent post where someone thought the clutch was slipping and it turned out to be, I think, second gear.

From Kapuskasing · May 19, 2006

Geezer said:
Could be clutch slipping. Don't want to make it sound bad, but from your description is sounds like something in the gear box. There was a recent post where someone thought the clutch was slipping and it turned out to be, I think, second gear.

It certainly feels more like a gear problem than a clutch problem. I seem to recall reading about someone else having a second gear issue now that you mention it, although when I go over how it feels when it happens, it feels like the slip/skip is happening behind me, as opposed to below, but it's hard to say.

Geezer · May 19, 2006

Hmm, if it feels like it may be in the rear end you might want to make sure everything is nice and tight in the final drive and axle. Check the fluid in the rear end, maybe even drain it out to see if there are metal bits in it.

I assume you ruled out tire slippage.

loingrader · May 20, 2006

sorry buddy. just took my bike in for the same problem. talked about it here last week. it is 2nd and 3rd gear. they said the shift forks are bent and 2nd and 3rd gear are rounded off. $1800 fix that yamaha initially wouldnt cover as they said it was abuse. high speed clutchless upshifts. which happens to be bs cause i always clutch when i shift and i never abuse my bike. (i don't drive it like a buick though!) my dealer gave me yamaha's number. i called them up and after a pleasant conversation about why i bought an fjr, why i bought y.e.s., they decided to cover it this one time. said there is a service bulletin about what type of driving causes this that my dealer is going to give me. wouldn't say that there was a defect, but again, they did say they would pay to fix it. thank god! should be done next week. i'll give full details when i hear.

-b

From Kapuskasing · May 20, 2006

Who the h**l would clutchless shift a bike like this, for Pete's sake? Are there people who can afford a bike like this that are so stupid? It's not an R1, or a Hayabusa for that matter.

I think you nailed it on the bent shift forks, when I described it to my wrench, he suggested that might be it. I only hope Yamaha Canada doesn't give me any guff about this.

I'll be bringing the bike to the shop next week and I will post results!

MrVvrroomm · May 21, 2006

From Kapuskasing said:
Who the h**l would clutchless shift a bike like this, for Pete's sake? Are there people who can afford a bike like this that are so stupid?

(blink, blink)

Geezer · May 21, 2006

Shifting without the clutch has been discussed a couple of times before. It looks like we now have a valid reason to not get into that habit. At least the risk of damage is there, and worse, the hastle about whether or not it's covered by warranty.

Still, it looks like Yamaha has recognized a weakness in the gearbox.

radman · May 21, 2006

Done right, clutchless shifts will not bend forks, ruin drums, or anything else. Done right, normal shifts will not bend forks, ruin drums, etc etc. Done right, power shifts will not....well, you get it by now. Bent forks either were installed that way from the factory, or created by bad technique or a heavy foot, or forced gear changes such as those done at very low speed downshifting.

MrVvrroomm · May 21, 2006

radman said:
Done right, clutchless shifts will not bend forks, ruin drums, or anything else. Done right, normal shifts will not bend forks, ruin drums, etc etc. Done right, power shifts will not....well, you get it by now. Bent forks either were installed that way from the factory, or created by bad technique or a heavy foot, or forced gear changes such as those done at very low speed downshifting.

+1

loingrader · May 21, 2006

i highly doubt that the shift forks could have been installed bent. i also don't understand why normal driving (same as my last umpteen motorcycles) would cause the bent shift forks. it is also weird that virtually no one has suffered this kind of problem. who knows... i'll find out more this week.

-b

loingrader · May 22, 2006

here's the yamaha service bulletin my dealer got today.

Transmission Failure Analysis - All Models

Transmission problems (e.g. jumping out of gear caused by rounded engagement dogs) are in most cases caused by abusive gear shifting.

When a gearshift is not completed due to incomplete movement of the shift pedal during the shift or lack of using the clutch during the shift or lack of using the clutch during the entire gearshift, the gear engagement dogs may not fully engage. This is generally called a "Missed Shift" and will cause the engagement dogs to be violently forced out of engagement. The engagement dogs are then damaged (rounded corners), the shift fork is bent or galled, and sometimes the groove in the shift cam that the shift fork rides in is damaged. If the damage to any of these components is substantial enough, the transmission may jump out of gear even when shifted properly.

These missed shifts can also be caused by misadjusted shift linkage between the shift pedal and the shift arm or damaged internal shifting components (e.g., a broken shift detent spring etc.). When repairing a unit that has damage to the shift forks and engagement dogs, be sure to closely inspect all components related to shifting from the shift pedal to the damaged component. If no damage or misadjusted components are found, the cause is most likely abusive shifting by the rider. Transmission damage caused by abusive shifting is not a warrantable defect.

CAUTION:

The use of an impact air gun to tighten the countershaft sprocket onto the transmission while in gear can also damage gear engagement dogs.[/b]

Ari Rankum · May 22, 2006

loingrader said:
sorry buddy. just took my bike in for the same problem. talked about it here last week. it is 2nd and 3rd gear. they said the shift forks are bent and 2nd and 3rd gear are rounded off. $1800 fix that yamaha initially wouldnt cover as they said it was abuse. high speed clutchless upshifts. which happens to be bs cause i always clutch when i shift and i never abuse my bike. (i don't drive it like a buick though!) my dealer gave me yamaha's number. i called them up and after a pleasant conversation about why i bought an fjr, why i bought y.e.s., they decided to cover it this one time. said there is a service bulletin about what type of driving causes this that my dealer is going to give me. wouldn't say that there was a defect, but again, they did say they would pay to fix it. thank god! should be done next week. i'll give full details when i hear.
-b

I had this exact thing happen on my '05 at 10K miles. Yamaha started with the stunting/clutchless shift/abuse thing. I started with 40 year-old many bike owner with all bikes taken well over 10K miles, including 30K mile 1985 CB700SC and 50K mile Goldwing and no issues like this, ever. Dealer helped with describing me as not exactly a teenager, clean bike, well-maintained, no scratches, etc. Yamaha decided to fix at their expense. The parts were sent back to Yamaha for engineering analysis.

My issue started with a lurch similar to what you describe - I thought it was due to rear wheel spin, because it seemed to correlate with flaws in the road surface or painted surfaces. Shortly after the onset of this, the bike jumped out of second one morning under acceleration. This was brand new behavior, and I thought I must have half-assed an upshift, or something. So, clutch in, gentle but firm upshift to third, clutch out, power on, accelerating, pop! 15 miles later, I was at the Yammie dealer describing the problem and dropping of the bike for them to take a look. 4 weeks later, I got my bike back.

loingrader · May 22, 2006

hmmmm. 2 weeks ago i had never heard of this problem. thought my bike was a complete fluke. 3 bikes out of umpteen thousands certainly is a very small percentage but it makes me feel better that it wasn't my driving that screwed the tranny up. was starting to wonder, but yea, the way i drive hasn't hurt any of the many other bikes i've owned. i am glad yamaha is taking care of the problem.

-b

loingrader · May 24, 2006

Ari, did the fact that you lost 2nd gear after 10k give you second thoughts about the viability of the transmission with the way you were riding the bike? it's sure got me thinking. love the bike but yamaha said they would only fix this problem once. hmmm.

-bret

Ari Rankum · May 24, 2006

loingrader said:
Ari, did the fact that you lost 2nd gear after 10k give you second thoughts about the viability of the transmission with the way you were riding the bike? it's sure got me thinking. love the bike but yamaha said they would only fix this problem once. hmmm.
-bret

Yeah, I did have second thoughts. I was sure I had done nothing wrong. It actually took me a little while to stop being annoyed at the initial questions: is this where the shifter has always been, because people that drag race these bikes move the shift lever, you know? Do you powershift, you know, change gears without using the clutch? Maybe you missed a shift - you know, it only takes one missed shift to frag your transmission the way yours is fragged. Etc.

I got the same service bulletin. I also got the warning that Yamaha would only do the repairs for free, once. After that, it was on me.

In the end, at least until I put my '05 through that deer, I had never heard of this happening to anyone else on an FJR. So it seemed unlikely it was a design or manufacturing flaw that affected a lot of bikes. Of course, you have to wonder what causes a service bulletin to be issued if you're the only one with a problem. It could have been me. It could have been design. It could have been manufacturing. I'll never know, as Yamaha never revealed to me the results of their analysis.

From Kapuskasing · May 25, 2006

I spoke to my mechanic today and he had not discussed the problem with Yamaha, but he did not anticipate any problem getting them to cover the repair - I hope he is not being overly optimistic! I have never missed a shift with this bike, not do I ride it particularly hard, if another mechanic at another shop is to be believed! The parts are not available for a couple of weeks, so I'm taking the trip to Deal's Gap with the tranny acting the way it is - here's hoping!

Jim

05fjrBluedevil · Sep 18, 2006

Well glad I found this post!!!!!!

Sounds exactly what has happened to mine, I did nothing wrong to my knowledge! :blink:

If you all that had it fixed would not mind provided me with your names/ bike #'s incase I need to remind them they have acknowledged/ fixed under warranty for others!

Thanking you very much in advance.

MIke

05fjrbluedevil!

16,000 miles

RadioHowie · Sep 18, 2006

I'm glad the recent postings on this thread bumped it up to the top of the forum.

This is exactly what was occuring on the '03 I test-drove a year ago at the local Yammie dealer.

Accelerate from a dead stop in 1st gear...hard or soft acceleration, didn't matter.

Shift into second, give it some throttle, and BANG...out of 2nd and right back in. Scared the s#&^ out of me the first time it happened, being a dealer consignment bike I was looking at.

Attempted to recreate the situation and did so successfully, almost with every **** into 2nd.

If I pulled a "grandad" shift, i.e., nice and easy, no problem. But use the slightest bit of "agression" and bam-bam...in-out-in.

Needless to say, I didn't buy it. Found my '04 about an hour later on the internet, 60 miles away.

By the way, that '03 had about 27k on the odo and no way of knowing if the tranny had seen abuse. The bike didn't look like it had been owned by a squid, but you never know.

05 Clutch/Transmission Skip at Speed?

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