'04 '05 ABS Motor Fuse

[SkooterG]

These fat pigs will go down fast with a locked front wheel. Even in gravel.

ps...there was no way I was going to go out and test the front ABS on a gravel road!

I've done it many a time with no drama whatsoever. 20mph on gravel, stab the front brake lever quickly. Momentary lock up (or not with abs engagement) and then it continues on it's way. As I say. NO drama whatsoever. That's how I tested the FJR I am having problems with. And no, the front abs does not work on mine either.

I have also done it many a times on pavement. It's just a LOT harder to do. A LOT more braking force required to get the front to lock or abs to engage.

I think people are nuts who don't test and activate their abs every once in a while.

 

[daviddowns2000]

These fat pigs will go down fast with a locked front wheel. Even in gravel.

ps...there was no way I was going to go out and test the front ABS on a gravel road!

I've done it many a time with no drama whatsoever. 20mph on gravel, stab the front brake lever quickly. Momentary lock up (or not with abs engagement) and then it continues on it's way. As I say. NO drama whatsoever. That's how I tested the FJR I am having problems with. And no, the front abs does not work on mine either.

I have also done it many a times on pavement. It's just a LOT harder to do. A LOT more braking force required to get the front to lock or abs to engage.

I think people are nuts who don't test and activate their abs every once in a while.

No problem testing the rear, even on dry pavement, which I do frequently on purpose...that's how I discovered the issue. I've tested the front on wet leaves, but testing on loose gravel scares me a little, seems too unpredictable, just chicken I guess. Anyway, instead of spending $ on an analog meter, I'm thinking about hooking up a $3 12V buzzer and deciphering the error codes like slow Morse code.

 

[ionbeam]

...I also wonder how many ABS models out there also don't have the abs working and the owners don't know it...

Check that ABS operation on a regular basis peeps!

This is one of the things that prompted me to write up an ABS test procedure. Plus, it is a good way to exercise the ABS systems and move hydraulic fluid through the unit, charging it with fresh brake fluid. IMO, it is safer to first verify that the ABS system is working before going out and 'live firing' the system on the street.

..ABS system compares speed between both wheels to work correctly...

...The primary attribute the ABS looks for is the Slip Ratio/Slip Angle which is the measure of the wheel speed vs chassis speed...

...So...... how does the system determine 'chassis speed'? And was I wrong in that the front abs *could* work if the rear is not?...

Both the Gen I and Gen II determine chassis speed by means of monitoring the wheel sensors. More importantly, the ABS ECU uses the chassis speed to calculate inertia. Technically, a skid happens when the inertia of the motorcycle overcomes the available braking force friction causing the motorcycle to carry forward while the wheel is locked -- skidding on the road. The ABS ECU uses the calculated inertia as one of the math terms to provide brake pressure control so that the wheel will not be braked beyond impending lock-up.

 

There is only one ABS motor, if that fails both the front and rear brake ABS will not work. There are two separate hydraulic metering blocks with two separate hydraulic pumps so that one of the metering blocks could fail but the other block would continue to provide ABS function.

 

And why a needle type voltmeter? I don't have one of those.

Because of the way that DIGITAL multimeters sample and display values the rate at which the display is updated may make it too hard to determine the ON and OFF pulses. This is one of the very few times that a needle movement meter would be better. Fred is lucky to have an advanced DMM with a bar graph unlike most of us low tech riders. His idea of a light to flash the codes is great, as is david's idea of a beeper. And +1, WTF with the old school OBD code flashing when the FJR already has a digital display that is used by the ECU?

 

[daviddowns2000]

...I also wonder how many ABS models out there also don't have the abs working and the owners don't know it...

Check that ABS operation on a regular basis peeps!

This is one of the things that prompted me to write up an ABS test procedure. Plus, it is a good way to exercise the ABS systems and move hydraulic fluid through the unit, charging it with fresh brake fluid. IMO, it is safer to first verify that the ABS system is working before going out and 'live firing' the system on the street.

..ABS system compares speed between both wheels to work correctly...

...The primary attribute the ABS looks for is the Slip Ratio/Slip Angle which is the measure of the wheel speed vs chassis speed...

...So...... how does the system determine 'chassis speed'? And was I wrong in that the front abs *could* work if the rear is not?...

Both the Gen I and Gen II determine chassis speed by means of monitoring the wheel sensors. More importantly, the ABS ECU uses the chassis speed to calculate inertia. Technically, a skid happens when the inertia of the motorcycle overcomes the available braking force friction causing the motorcycle to carry forward while the wheel is locked -- skidding on the road. The ABS ECU uses the calculated inertia as one of the math terms to provide brake pressure control so that the wheel will not be braked beyond impending lock-up.

 

There is only one ABS motor, if that fails both the front and rear brake ABS will not work. There are two separate hydraulic metering blocks with two separate hydraulic pumps so that one of the metering blocks could fail but the other block would continue to provide ABS function.

 

And why a needle type voltmeter? I don't have one of those.

Because of the way that DIGITAL multimeters sample and display values the rate at which the display is updated may make it too hard to determine the ON and OFF pulses. This is one of the very few times that a needle movement meter would be better. Fred is lucky to have an advanced DMM with a bar graph unlike most of us low tech riders. His idea of a light to flash the codes is great, as is david's idea of a beeper. And +1, WTF with the old school OBD code flashing when the FJR already has a digital display that is used by the ECU?

Testing with analog meter as described in service manual yielded no usable information regarding codes...maybe I missed some important instructions somewhere. I tried to extract codes first with main switch off, then again with main switch on, nothing useful registered, just slow and erratic voltage changes, nothing like the discrete levels and durations described in the manual. I repeated the hydraulic pump test #2 where pedal and lever are supposed to return to resting position...got good "return" force on lever, essentially no force on pedal but did feel weak pulsations.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Update on ABS malfunction code testing: (Back story...ABS not working on my '05 but warning lights and "hydraulic unit operation" tests 1 and 2 seem mostly OK although the rear pedal does not show significant upward force during hydraulic unit operation test 2).

First, be advised that the main switch needs to be ON when using the test coupler adaptor to capture error codes using the needle deflections of an analog voltmeter (service manual neglects this important piece of information). If main switch is OFF, you get a constant 12v reading which, if had been done correctly with the switch ON would mean that the ECU is bad.

I could detect no error codes. However, you can induce error code 11 by running the bike in gear on the centerstand for 20+ seconds. I did this and error code 11 appeared on the multifunction display. Error code 11 was detected with the analog meter method as well.

I cleared the error code and am planning to go for a test ride, perhaps I can induce a malfunction code by locking up the rear. If not, I have no idea what to do next.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Update on ABS malfunction code testing: (Back story...ABS not working on my '05 but warning lights and "hydraulic unit operation" tests 1 and 2 seem mostly OK although the rear pedal does not show significant upward force during hydraulic unit operation test 2).

First, be advised that the main switch needs to be ON when using the test coupler adaptor to capture error codes using the needle deflections of an analog voltmeter (service manual neglects this important piece of information). If main switch is OFF, you get a constant 12v reading which, if had been done correctly with the switch ON would mean that the ECU is bad.

I could detect no error codes. However, you can induce error code 11 by running the bike in gear on the centerstand for 20+ seconds. I did this and error code 11 appeared on the multifunction display. Error code 11 was detected with the analog meter method as well.

I cleared the error code and am planning to go for a test ride, perhaps I can induce a malfunction code by locking up the rear. If not, I have no idea what to do next.

Update 10/29:

I did a test ride this morning. Locked up the rear and the front, no ABS on either. Checked for malfunction codes...no malfunction codes registered on the multifunction display or on the analog meter.

Current status is that I have no ABS front or rear, but all the warning lights and testing methods show no problem, with perhaps one exception: Using "hydraulic unit operation" test #2, the rear brake pedal does not return to the resting position. The front brake lever does return with good force. Pulsations are felt in both brakes using test #1 and test #2, but the rear is comparatively much weaker.

If anyone with an '05 model with working ABS has run (or is willing to run) "hydraulic unit operation" test #2, I would greatly appreciate hearing whether or not your pedal returned to the resting position.

 

[RadioHowie]

As dd2000 mentioned earlier in the thread, I too have the non-functioning ABS system on my '04, and as SkooterG has admitted to, I haven't diagnosed mine either, but I had a thought as I was re-reading this thread...

Perhaps something that might be done to REALLY exercise the ABS pump would be to go through the complete procedure Ionbeam outlined with one MAJOR addition....

Attach a bleed hose to the rear caliper, crack the bleed screw, and THEN proceed with the ABS test. This would still exercise the system AND force new fluid through the pump. Might be a way to truly flush the pump of old, grungy fluid and correct a "frozen" pump issue.

Any thoughts anyone???

 

[Fred W]

Since David does feel the normal pulsation in the pedal during the ABS jumper test, but doesn't feel any pulsing during actual wheel lock-up, this makes me think that this is a wheel speed / sensing or ABS ECU type of issue rather than an ABS pump/actuator or hydraulic issue.

But I can't for the life of me come up with a plausible failure mode that explains his symptoms. Are your symptoms exactly the same?

 

[RadioHowie]

Can't really say if my symptoms are "exactly" the same, since I haven't gone through the diagnosis...yet.

Perhaps if I wasn't such a lazy old coot, I'd jumper the ABS Test coupler and give it a go, but the only thing I can say for SURE is I CAN lock up my rear...a problem that pre-dates my Darkside affiliation.

 

[daviddowns2000]

As dd2000 mentioned earlier in the thread, I too have the non-functioning ABS system on my '04, and as SkooterG has admitted to, I haven't diagnosed mine either, but I had a thought as I was re-reading this thread...

Perhaps something that might be done to REALLY exercise the ABS pump would be to go through the complete procedure Ionbeam outlined with one MAJOR addition....

Attach a bleed hose to the rear caliper, crack the bleed screw, and THEN proceed with the ABS test. This would still exercise the system AND force new fluid through the pump. Might be a way to truly flush the pump of old, grungy fluid and correct a "frozen" pump issue.

Any thoughts anyone???

If the pump is working, wouldn't it be cycling fluid every time it is activated during the testing?

 

[RadioHowie]

As dd2000 mentioned earlier in the thread, I too have the non-functioning ABS system on my '04, and as SkooterG has admitted to, I haven't diagnosed mine either, but I had a thought as I was re-reading this thread...

Perhaps something that might be done to REALLY exercise the ABS pump would be to go through the complete procedure Ionbeam outlined with one MAJOR addition....

Attach a bleed hose to the rear caliper, crack the bleed screw, and THEN proceed with the ABS test. This would still exercise the system AND force new fluid through the pump. Might be a way to truly flush the pump of old, grungy fluid and correct a "frozen" pump issue.

Any thoughts anyone???

If the pump is working, wouldn't it be cycling fluid every time it is activated during the testing?

Yeah, but it's the same old fluid already in the system. Figure it this way...when you step on the rear brake, the brake pad moves 1/32nd of an inch? How much fluid displacement is there, distance-wise, in the brake lines during activation of the brake? The hydraulic fluid in the lines is basically a solid that moves a tiny, little bit in the brake line. Pop open the bleed nipple on the caliper and push a BUNCH of fluid through that line, with the ABS pump doing the pushing, rather than the brake pedal.

I'm just sky-blue'ing an idea here....no idea if it's a DECENT idea.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Since David does feel the normal pulsation in the pedal during the ABS jumper test, but doesn't feel any pulsing during actual wheel lock-up, this makes me think that this is a wheel speed / sensing or ABS ECU type of issue rather than an ABS pump/actuator or hydraulic issue.

But I can't for the life of me come up with a plausible failure mode that explains his symptoms. Are your symptoms exactly the same?

So far I know for sure that:

1. ABS does not activate during normal use, front or rear.

2. ABS warning light functions normally and ABS motor fuse is good.

3. No malfunction codes are present on display or using analog meter deflections.

4. Hydraulic unit operation test 1 yields pulsations front and rear (rear pulsations are relatively weaker).

5. Hydraulic unit operation test 2 yields pulsations front and rear. Front lever returns to resting position with considerable force but rear pedal does not return at all.

6. Solenoid valve resistance front and rear is slightly above specs (3.6 Ohms vs spec range 2.96 - 3.2 Ohms) but was tested at appx 80 degrees F instead of 68 degrees F. Not sure if that is significant.

7. I can induce ABS malfunction code 11 by running the bike in gear while on the centerstand, code 11 appears on display and also is detected by analog meter method.

8. Bleeding rear brake, cycling pump, and bleeding again did not correct problem.

Suggestions?

I'd like to be able to get at the ABS failsafe relay and the ABS motor connector to test their specs as in the manual, but I'm having a dickens of a time getting my fingers anywhere near them from the side and haven't figured out the best way to get access to them.

Is there any chance Yamaha would help out with this issue? Seems like several bikes have had the problem. Who would I talk to about it? My extended warranty expired a year ago.

 

[ionbeam]

Update 10/29:

I did a test ride this morning. Locked up the rear and the front, no ABS on either...

Were you going faster than 7 mph? The ABS is not functional below 6.2 mph. I had to ask, this is about the only condition where there are no codes, the hydraulic system almost passes all the tests and the ABS warning light can still be made to indicate a malfunction.

The Fail Safe relay is held on by a rubber mount slid over a flat metal post, perhaps you can push up and slip it off.

Don't sweat fractional ohms. Take your meter, set it on the lowest resistance scale (typically around 200Ω ) and touch the two meter leads together. What you read on the display is the resistance of the meter leads. In a perfect world you can subtract this reading from the solenoid reading and get the true resistance. In our imperfect world there are some variations in contact force and surface resistance that prevent this from working all the time.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Update 10/29:

I did a test ride this morning. Locked up the rear and the front, no ABS on either...

Were you going faster than 7 mph? The ABS is not functional below 6.2 mph. I had to ask, this is about the only condition where there are no codes, the hydraulic system almost passes all the tests and the ABS warning light can still be made to indicate a malfunction.

The Fail Safe relay is held on by a rubber mount slid over a flat metal post, perhaps you can push up and slip it off.

Don't sweat fractional ohms. Take your meter, set it on the lowest resistance scale (typically around 200Ω ) and touch the two meter leads together. What you read on the display is the resistance of the meter leads. In a perfect world you can subtract this reading from the solenoid reading and get the true resistance. In our imperfect world there are some variations in contact force and surface resistance that prevent this from working all the time.

Thanks for the info on the resistance. I was definitely going faster than 10 MPH when I hit the brakes. After reading the following thread:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=111050&st=0&p=501167&hl=failsafe&fromsearch=1entry501167

I PM'ed BumbleDB to ask if his problem was resolved, am waiting for a reply.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Because several owners are having a similar problem, I decided to call Yamaha Customer Relations ((800) 962-7926) and eventually got to speak with a product specialist about the issue. I informed him that at least three others on the FJRforum.com have reported the same problem. He was not aware of any other cases like ours. He spoke with a tech whose desk was nearby (the same person a dealer would be able to talk with about it) who also was not aware of any significant number of other cases, simply asked how often the fluid had been changed (mine was changed annually).

Of course, the recommendation was to take it to a dealer, and I understand the rationale for this. I asked if it would be of any value for other owners on the forum to call Customer Relations to report the issue, if only to get it documented in their records. He said it couldn't hurt. Obviously, the best thing from their standpoint is to take them to dealers.

My troubleshooting has reached an impasse...I can't get the damned failsafe relay separated from the relay coupler. In my tortuous efforts to separate them, I have even broken off the little plastic latch that prevents them from accidentally separating, but still can't get them apart. My leg is aching from sitting on the garage floor and my arthritic fingers are sore from fooling with the damned thing and I'm about ready to head for the dealership.

EDIT: Got the relay coupler apart with the help of a second pair of hands and a channel lock pliers. Looks like it may be the problem, but I want to run the checks again to be sure. However, running the self-diagnostics with the relay removed gave error code 31 ("no connection to failsafe relay"), so ECU seems to be at least giving some codes.

 

[RadioHowie]

Keep at it, David....

Your trials and tribulations are a GREAT resource for the Forum.

Personal thanks from me, too.

'Howie

 

[Donal]

It seems to me that you are almost there. You have proved that the pump & solenoids work (even if the rear isn't everything you want). The rear wheel ABS speed sensor has also been proved by running the bike on the centre stand.

What doens't appear to be working is the bike's ability to detect a locked wheel

The only thing I can think to check is the front wheel ABS speed sensor. This would involve jacking the front end up, releasing the brakes so there's no binding and spin the front wheel. You should get the same ABS alarm as for the rear wheel.

Good luck

Don

 

[daviddowns2000]

I hope I found the problem. It appears to be the same thing BumbleDB encountered (see https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=111050&st=0&p=501167&hl=failsafe&fromsearch=1entry501167): The ABS motor relay solenoid (contacts 1 and 6 in the diagram) is showing extremely high resistance. It should be between 50 - 150 ohms. The reading is essentially infinity. As BumbleDB pointed out, there are actually two relays within the "ABS failsafe relay," each with separate solenoids. One is the "ABS motor relay" and the other is the "solenoid relay." In both our cases, the motor relay is showing very high resistance while the "solenoid relay" is within specs.

I ordered a replacement failsafe relay (part number 3YA-81950-01) from Ron Ayers ($96.85 plus $8 shipping), will take a week to get to USA from Japan, should be at my door in two weeks. BTW, The price quoted from Stadium Yamaha was $144.00 plus shipping. If it doesn't fix the problem, Ron Ayers will accept a return less 25% restocking fee, a deal that sounds very good to me.

BumbleDB never posted whether or not replacement of the failsafe relay fixed his problem and hasn't answered a PM I sent to him, so it isn't certain that is the problem, but it sure looks like it at this point.

 

[ionbeam]

Good work digging into this problem! I have a comment about the high resistance between terminal 6 and terminal 1 ----->

Terminal 6 goes to the anode of a diode. To measure continuity you would have to set your meter to the diode scale, then put the red meter lead on terminal 6 and the black lead on terminal 1. General purpose diodes will read between 0.400 and 0.750 on the diode scale. Your reading may be a bit higher due to the relay coil being in series with the diode. If you still have an infinite resistance reading like this, then the coil is indeed bad. If you don't have a diode scale on your meter there are other tricks available, let us know.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Good work digging into this problem! I have a comment about the high resistance between terminal 6 and terminal 1 ----->

Terminal 6 goes to the anode of a diode. To measure continuity you would have to set your meter to the diode scale, then put the red meter lead on terminal 6 and the black lead on terminal 1. General purpose diodes will read between 0.400 and 0.750 on the diode scale. Your reading may be a bit higher due to the relay coil being in series with the diode. If you still have an infinite resistance reading like this, then the coil is indeed bad. If you don't have a diode scale on your meter there are other tricks available, let us know.

Thanks for the info. I get a reading of 0.690 using the diode scale. I'm assuming the black lead goes into the COM jack. Does this simply mean that the diode is OK but the solenoid is bad? I get infinity using the ohms scale whether red or black lead is connected to #1.

If it means that the relay is OK, then I guess I will have to move on to the ABS motor coupler...which is even harder to access!