'04 '05 ABS Motor Fuse

[Fred W]

I don't see the point of flushing with so much fluid either. Once you flush the clean fluid thru, cycle the ABS a few times and flush it through again, there is nothing further to be gained, IMO.

Fred, I'm thinking/hoping that guaranteed new fluid, combined with MANY ABS cycles might flush/clean/lubricate a stuck or immobilized spool valve. Especially multiple, forced ABS cycles, using the ABS diagnostic sequence. What could it hurt? Break the ABS system? It's already not working. The only cost is in time.

I gotcha. So, really it's not the fluid flushing as much as the vigorous exercising of the solenoids with relatively fresh fluid that you're after here. That I can get behind. Along with some vigorous ker-thumpin with a rubber or rawhide mallet on the ABS body.

Hell man, I've been known to un-seize old two smoke engines with a judicious application of Coca-cola through the spark plug hole and an overnight soak.

But, sometimes, you still have to whack em with the business end of a baseball bat.

 

[daviddowns2000]

I did replace the fluid a few days ago. Have done tests 1 and 2 more than a dozen times so far. Tried Ionbeam's Bulgarian anesthestic approach a few times, not really slamming the pump, but striking with a steel bar firmly several times...no go, but I plan to go back and whack it (the pump) some more, if only to let out frustration.

David,

Did you do a COMPLETE flush of the system, i.e., running about an entire pint through the system, front AND rear each?

I'm thinking just a simple "bleed" leaves a LOT of old fluid in the system.

I didn't do the fronts. I did run through about three reservoirs through the rear.

Actually more, now that I think about it because I bled the back twice. Do you think that new fluid vs one year old fluid would cause this failure?

Not sure...just hoping/wondering-if a speck/chunk of splooge holding a spool valve open/shut might get dislodged.

The (supposed) reality might be that moisture that's formed/collected in the system over its life may have corroded the rear-control spool valve into immobility. If that's the case, then the ABS moduled might be fuxored.

But we are ALL counting on YOU to figure it out, and come up with a way to take that damn thing apart and FIX IT!!!

I'm beginning to think that is the most likely explanation. As Ionbeam said, there could be some electronic issue that affects only the rear brake, but that seems unlikely, especially since frozen spool valves seem to be a common fault and my bike has been living outdoors in Corrosionville (SoFla) for a few years.

 

[RadioHowie]

I don't see the point of flushing with so much fluid either. Once you flush the clean fluid thru, cycle the ABS a few times and flush it through again, there is nothing further to be gained, IMO.

Fred, I'm thinking/hoping that guaranteed new fluid, combined with MANY ABS cycles might flush/clean/lubricate a stuck or immobilized spool valve. Especially multiple, forced ABS cycles, using the ABS diagnostic sequence. What could it hurt? Break the ABS system? It's already not working. The only cost is in time.

I gotcha. So, really it's not the fluid flushing as much as the vigorous exercising of the solenoids with relatively fresh fluid that you're after here. That I can get behind. Along with some vigorous ker-thumpin with a rubber or rawhide mallet on the ABS body.

Hell man, I've been known to un-seize old two smoke engines with a judicious application of Coca-cola through the spark plug hole and an overnight soak.

But, sometimes, you still have to whack em with the business end of a baseball bat.

Perzackly what I was thinking. Excercise the HELL out of the ABS system, to the point of a dead battery. Whaddya got to lose? Right?

I just went eBay surfing and found THIS.

I am SO tempted to buy it, just to take the fecker apart to see what can be done for other folks suffering similar issues.

 

[Fred W]

I'm beginning to think that is the most likely explanation. As Ionbeam said, there could be some electronic issue that affects only the rear brake, but that seems unlikely, especially since frozen spool valves seem to be a common fault and my bike has been living outdoors in Corrosionville (SoFla) for a few years.

Umm... No. Frozen spool valves are not a common fault.

But neither is leaving your bike outside in the elements. (shudder)

Suddenly I feel much more secure about MY spool valves...

 

[daviddowns2000]

I don't see the point of flushing with so much fluid either. Once you flush the clean fluid thru, cycle the ABS a few times and flush it through again, there is nothing further to be gained, IMO.

Fred, I'm thinking/hoping that guaranteed new fluid, combined with MANY ABS cycles might flush/clean/lubricate a stuck or immobilized spool valve. Especially multiple, forced ABS cycles, using the ABS diagnostic sequence. What could it hurt? Break the ABS system? It's already not working. The only cost is in time.

I gotcha. So, really it's not the fluid flushing as much as the vigorous exercising of the solenoids with relatively fresh fluid that you're after here. That I can get behind. Along with some vigorous ker-thumpin with a rubber or rawhide mallet on the ABS body.

Hell man, I've been known to un-seize old two smoke engines with a judicious application of Coca-cola through the spark plug hole and an overnight soak.

But, sometimes, you still have to whack em with the business end of a baseball bat.

Perzackly what I was thinking. Excercise the HELL out of the ABS system, to the point of a dead battery. Whaddya got to lose? Right?

I just went eBay surfing and found THIS.

I am SO tempted to buy it, just to take the fecker apart to see what can be done for other folks suffering similar issues.

Pretty sure it won't work on the Gen 1, diff part number from '06 on.

 

[RadioHowie]

I just went eBay surfing and found THIS.

I am SO tempted to buy it, just to take the fecker apart to see what can be done for other folks suffering similar issues.

Pretty sure it won't work on the Gen 1, diff part number from '06 on.

Don't care if it would fit mine...just want to take one apart to see its guts.

I'm gonna keep my eye on that eBay listing and decide if I can afford $40 to benefit the forum. I'm poor.

 

[daviddowns2000]

I just went eBay surfing and found THIS.

I am SO tempted to buy it, just to take the fecker apart to see what can be done for other folks suffering similar issues.

Pretty sure it won't work on the Gen 1, diff part number from '06 on.

Don't care if it would fit mine...just want to take one apart to see its guts.

I'm gonna keep my eye on that eBay listing and decide if I can afford $40 to benefit the forum. I'm poor.

I'd like to know how many bikes actually have the problem. I think I found about six people with gen 1 bikes who posted on the forum that they had this issue (ABS fail, no malfunction indicated). There may be more, no search on ABS.

 

[daviddowns2000]

Update on my ABS problem:

The front ABS seems to be working. I had tested it a couple of times earlier and thought it was not working. Today, after replacing the failsafe relay, I road-tested both brakes again and the front brake ABS worked. I can't say for sure whether or not it was working all along earlier and I just didn't detect it or if something has changed. It did feel kinda clunky, however.

In any case, the rear ABS is definitely NOT working. Obviously, if the front works at all, this makes a big difference in what the likely suspects are.

David,

Was just digging into the FSM and think I may have a possible cause for your problem. On page 98 of the '05 ABS supplement is this note:

NOTE:

_

• If the rear brake hose inlet and outlet connections are reversed on the hydraulic unit, the brake

pedal is pressed down to full stroke without responding and will be pushed back slowly without

pulsating when the final check in [D-6] is performed.

This vaguely sounds like what you were describing in Test 2, doesn't it? Of course this doesn't explain why you are feeling no pulsation in the pedal at all when riding, but do feel something during the test.

It's actually starting to sound like an ABS ECU problem. If you were nearby I would volunteer to swap ABS ECUs with you to test it. Maybe there is another 1st gen ABS guy nearby that will be willing to help you out?

What happens in test 2 is that pulsations are felt like a ratchety clicking, but there is no upward force on the pedal. In contrast, the front lever returns from squeezed-in to the resting position with good force. The inlet and outlet connections have never been taken off, so unlikely that they are reversed. Besides, the ABS worked until recently.

 

[SkooterG]

Interesting that the front works and not the rear. I am almost positive neither work on mine. I will verify that soon. Don't know when I will have some time to get to diagnosing the problem, but this thread will be helpful.

 

[daviddowns2000]

I'm beginning to think that is the most likely explanation. As Ionbeam said, there could be some electronic issue that affects only the rear brake, but that seems unlikely, especially since frozen spool valves seem to be a common fault and my bike has been living outdoors in Corrosionville (SoFla) for a few years.

Umm... No. Frozen spool valves are not a common fault.

But neither is leaving your bike outside in the elements. (shudder)

Suddenly I feel much more secure about MY spool valves...

So, have the comments I've seen about frozen spool valves just been hypothetical or have people actually had it happen? Although mine seems to do what it is supposed to do in general, the ECU (ABS) is also a possibility since it has separate circuits for the front and rear. I can rule out the failsafe relay in my case.

Just in case it IS the ECU, I picked this up on EBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FJR-1300-ABS-parts-harness-control-box-etc-FJR1300ABS-/280693285962?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item415a9fa44a#ht_1309wt_1159

Looks to be in better shape than mine.

 

[Donal]

If you have a workshop manual, have a look in section 1 (General Information). It gives a very good description of how the system works, especially the solenoid valves. Mine is a 2009 so not sure it would be applicable to yours. I could could post some pages from mine but would probably have to be shot by Yamaha for breach of copyright

Don

 

[daviddowns2000]

If you have a workshop manual, have a look in section 1 (General Information). It gives a very good description of how the system works, especially the solenoid valves. Mine is a 2009 so not sure it would be applicable to yours. I could could post some pages from mine but would probably have to be shot by Yamaha for breach of copyright

Don

I do have the manual and the diagrams are helpful for a general understanding of how the system works. The troubleshooting section, however, doesn't address how to detect a frozen spool valve and isn't very thorough about what to do when encountering failures without light or code indicators. In any case, I wonder if, for example, the current draw by the solenoid might be different if the spool is stuck? Since only the rear appears to be affected in a few cases, we could compare the current draw by the front vs. the rear solenoids. I'd need Ionbeam to hold my hand here. The solenoid coils themselves show in-spec resistances.

I'm gonna go out there and hit the facker with a hammer again.

 

[Donal]

If you have a workshop manual, have a look in section 1 (General Information). It gives a very good description of how the system works, especially the solenoid valves. Mine is a 2009 so not sure it would be applicable to yours. I could could post some pages from mine but would probably have to be shot by Yamaha for breach of copyright

Don

I do have the manual and the diagrams are helpful for a general understanding of how the system works. The troubleshooting section, however, doesn't address how to detect a frozen spool valve and isn't very thorough about what to do when encountering failures without light or code indicators. In any case, I wonder if, for example, the current draw by the solenoid might be different if the spool is stuck? Since only the rear appears to be affected in a few cases, we could compare the current draw by the front vs. the rear solenoids. I'd need Ionbeam to hold my hand here. The solenoid coils themselves show in-spec resistances.

I'm gonna go out there and hit the facker with a hammer again.

If I were hitting it, I would be using the smallest hammer I had, with the intention of getting it "ringing" rather than just beating it into submission (In other words shake the **** out of it, don't beat the **** out of it). This needs to be done at the same time as the ABS is being functioned, so it's definitely a two person job.

Just as a matter of interest - what brake fluid are you using, I don't want to turn this into a NEPRT about fluid but....

Don

 

[daviddowns2000]

If you have a workshop manual, have a look in section 1 (General Information). It gives a very good description of how the system works, especially the solenoid valves. Mine is a 2009 so not sure it would be applicable to yours. I could could post some pages from mine but would probably have to be shot by Yamaha for breach of copyright

Don

I do have the manual and the diagrams are helpful for a general understanding of how the system works. The troubleshooting section, however, doesn't address how to detect a frozen spool valve and isn't very thorough about what to do when encountering failures without light or code indicators. In any case, I wonder if, for example, the current draw by the solenoid might be different if the spool is stuck? Since only the rear appears to be affected in a few cases, we could compare the current draw by the front vs. the rear solenoids. I'd need Ionbeam to hold my hand here. The solenoid coils themselves show in-spec resistances.

I'm gonna go out there and hit the facker with a hammer again.

If I were hitting it, I would be using the smallest hammer I had, with the intention of getting it "ringing" rather than just beating it into submission (In other words shake the **** out of it, don't beat the **** out of it). This needs to be done at the same time as the ABS is being functioned, so it's definitely a two person job.

Just as a matter of interest - what brake fluid are you using, I don't want to turn this into a NEPRT about fluid but....

Don

Valvoline synthetic DOT 3-4

As for getting it ringing, I was thinking about using a vibrator of some sort but the SO wouldn't let me borrow it.

 

[Fred W]

I'm beginning to think that is the most likely explanation. As Ionbeam said, there could be some electronic issue that affects only the rear brake, but that seems unlikely, especially since frozen spool valves seem to be a common fault and my bike has been living outdoors in Corrosionville (SoFla) for a few years.

Umm... No. Frozen spool valves are not a common fault.

So, have the comments I've seen about frozen spool valves just been hypothetical or have people actually had it happen? Although mine seems to do what it is supposed to do in general, the ECU (ABS) is also a possibility since it has separate circuits for the front and rear. I can rule out the failsafe relay in my case.

Just in case it IS the ECU, I picked this up on EBay:

https://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1309wt_1159

Looks to be in better shape than mine.

Nice score (if you bought that already (can't tell). Even if this turns out not to be your problem you should have no problem reselling it.

re: Frozen spool valves being common, what I meant to say that no problem in the ABS is common. Compared to many other bikes (BMWs as an example) having faulty ABS is relatively rare. Hearing of three people on the forum that are having a similar problem is kind of recent development. Yes, there have been some others in the past. Maybe if we could hunt track them down and find out what their symptoms were it would shine some light on your issue.

I would have expected the ABS ECU to flash a fault code 42 (Rear wheel does not recover from the locking tendency even

though the signal is continuously transmitted from the ECU (ABS) to release the hydraulic pressure [when the battery voltage is normal]) or 52 (Rear wheel does not recover from the locking tendency even

though the signal is continuously transmitted from the ECU (ABS) to release the hydraulic pressure [when the battery voltage is low].) Those codes seem to cover the stuck spool issue, and yet you do not get them.

I do have the manual and the diagrams are helpful for a general understanding of how the system works. The troubleshooting section, however, doesn't address how to detect a frozen spool valve and isn't very thorough about what to do when encountering failures without light or code indicators. In any case, I wonder if, for example, the current draw by the solenoid might be different if the spool is stuck? Since only the rear appears to be affected in a few cases, we could compare the current draw by the front vs. the rear solenoids. I'd need Ionbeam to hold my hand here. The solenoid coils themselves show in-spec resistances.

I'm gonna go out there and hit the facker with a hammer again.

No, a solenoid is just a DC coil magnet and will draw pretty much the same current whether the piston is free to move or not. So it would be unlikely that the ABS ECU would be capable of detecting a stuck one, electrically. But it should see the locked wheel via the wheel sensors and register a fault.

I guess that we could hypothesize that you originally had both spools stuck (in the "normal" position) and now the front one has somehow freed itself up. Like Howie, I wonder how difficult it would be to take the ABS control block apart and check those spools / solenoids. Being in FL, this is pretty much prime riding season for you. You probably wouldn't want to have your bike down for an extended time while messing with the brakes. They do work now, just no ABS.

On a whim... You did determine that the ABS ECU can see the rear brake switch, right? If the ECU doesn't see the brake light switch it will never engage.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

When my ABS failed (i.e. locked up) my ABS sensor light would come on. I took mine to a dealer where they somehow determined that the HYDRAULIC UNIT ASSY (part # 5VS-85930-09-00) had rusted open. They replaced the unit ($1200 to do so) and I have had ABS ever since. I now "exercise" my ABS system every few weeks and change my break fluid every season.

Should you decide to replace the unit yourself, the best price I can find the part for right now is at Yamahasportszplaza.com. They have it listed at $905.18. https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/oemparts?aribrand=YAM#/Yamaha/FJR1300ABS_-_FJR1300AS_-_2004/ELECTRICAL_3/FJR1300AS_(2004_MOTORCYCLE)/ELECTRICAL_3_(FJR1300AS_-_2004)

 

[daviddowns2000]

I'm beginning to think that is the most likely explanation. As Ionbeam said, there could be some electronic issue that affects only the rear brake, but that seems unlikely, especially since frozen spool valves seem to be a common fault and my bike has been living outdoors in Corrosionville (SoFla) for a few years.

Umm... No. Frozen spool valves are not a common fault.

So, have the comments I've seen about frozen spool valves just been hypothetical or have people actually had it happen? Although mine seems to do what it is supposed to do in general, the ECU (ABS) is also a possibility since it has separate circuits for the front and rear. I can rule out the failsafe relay in my case.

Just in case it IS the ECU, I picked this up on EBay:

https://www.ebay.com/...#ht_1309wt_1159

Looks to be in better shape than mine.

Nice score (if you bought that already (can't tell). Even if this turns out not to be your problem you should have no problem reselling it.

re: Frozen spool valves being common, what I meant to say that no problem in the ABS is common. Compared to many other bikes (BMWs as an example) having faulty ABS is relatively rare. Hearing of three people on the forum that are having a similar problem is kind of recent development. Yes, there have been some others in the past. Maybe if we could hunt track them down and find out what their symptoms were it would shine some light on your issue.

I would have expected the ABS ECU to flash a fault code 42 (Rear wheel does not recover from the locking tendency even

though the signal is continuously transmitted from the ECU (ABS) to release the hydraulic pressure [when the battery voltage is normal]) or 52 (Rear wheel does not recover from the locking tendency even

though the signal is continuously transmitted from the ECU (ABS) to release the hydraulic pressure [when the battery voltage is low].) Those codes seem to cover the stuck spool issue, and yet you do not get them.

I do have the manual and the diagrams are helpful for a general understanding of how the system works. The troubleshooting section, however, doesn't address how to detect a frozen spool valve and isn't very thorough about what to do when encountering failures without light or code indicators. In any case, I wonder if, for example, the current draw by the solenoid might be different if the spool is stuck? Since only the rear appears to be affected in a few cases, we could compare the current draw by the front vs. the rear solenoids. I'd need Ionbeam to hold my hand here. The solenoid coils themselves show in-spec resistances.

I'm gonna go out there and hit the facker with a hammer again.

No, a solenoid is just a DC coil magnet and will draw pretty much the same current whether the piston is free to move or not. So it would be unlikely that the ABS ECU would be capable of detecting a stuck one, electrically. But it should see the locked wheel via the wheel sensors and register a fault.

I guess that we could hypothesize that you originally had both spools stuck (in the "normal" position) and now the front one has somehow freed itself up. Like Howie, I wonder how difficult it would be to take the ABS control block apart and check those spools / solenoids. Being in FL, this is pretty much prime riding season for you. You probably wouldn't want to have your bike down for an extended time while messing with the brakes. They do work now, just no ABS.

On a whim... You did determine that the ABS ECU can see the rear brake switch, right? If the ECU doesn't see the brake light switch it will never engage.

I have not determined that the ECU can see the switch. The brake light comes on when the pedal is pressed and goes off when released. The hydraulic unit tests 1 and 2 depend on the brakes being operated, so I'd guess that the ECU sees it, but I'm not sure.

 

[ionbeam]

There is a single Yellow wire that goes to the ABS ECU which carries both the front and rear brake switch signals. If the front ABS works the ECU sees the brake signals.

Color me curious too, I would love to have a chance to perform an autopsy on a hydraulic block too. It may help understand why they freeze and perhaps show a way to revive a dead'n. Even though Yamaha indicates the world will end if the unit is taken apart there just may be a way to resuscitate the dead.

 

[daviddowns2000]

When my ABS failed (i.e. locked up) my ABS sensor light would come on. I took mine to a dealer where they somehow determined that the HYDRAULIC UNIT ASSY (part # 5VS-85930-09-00) had rusted open. They replaced the unit ($1200 to do so) and I have had ABS ever since. I now "exercise" my ABS system every few weeks and change my break fluid every season.

Should you decide to replace the unit yourself, the best price I can find the part for right now is at Yamahasportszplaza.com. They have it listed at $905.18. https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/oemparts?aribrand=YAM#/Yamaha/FJR1300ABS_-_FJR1300AS_-_2004/ELECTRICAL_3/FJR1300AS_(2004_MOTORCYCLE)/ELECTRICAL_3_(FJR1300AS_-_2004)

I read the thread about your stuck rear brake. Did you ever figure out why you could get brake fluid flow through the block in one direction only?

 

[daviddowns2000]

David,

It's actually starting to sound like an ABS ECU problem. If you were nearby I would volunteer to swap ABS ECUs with you to test it. Maybe there is another 1st gen ABS guy nearby that will be willing to help you out?

There IS something you or someone with a gen 1 bike with working ABS could do that would help me a lot: I'm curious if the failure of the pedal to return to the resting position in hydraulic unit test 2 means there is a blockage in the hydraulics in my bike, or if that is just normal. Seems like either the signal from the ECU to the solenoid is bad or there is a stuck valve.