'04 Headlights out

[gazelle]

No headlights. Replaced fuse twice, there is voltage at the fuse. Removed a bulb...it is good. Voltage at handlebar hi-lo beam switch. Read another post and someone said the heated grips would not work if the on-off headlght relay was bad. Heated grips do work. Where do I look now ? Just returned from a 6600+ mile jaunt across the country, encountered NO rain, only some HOT weather. Lights went out at about 6K miles. Thanks for any help or suggestions.

 

[ionbeam]

I wouldn't be so quick to assess that the bulb was good. Both bulbs commonly burn out within hours of each other with surprising regularity. Either ohm a bulb or swap it with a known good bulb. It's hard for a Gen I not to have low beams as long as the headlight relay is plugged in. If the headlight relay fails the low beams should still be on in almost all cases.

 

[JamesK]

I wouldn't be so quick to assess that the bulb was good. Both bulbs commonly burn out within hours of each other with surprising regularity. Either ohm a bulb or swap it with a known good bulb. It's hard for a Gen I not to have low beams as long as the headlight relay is plugged in. If the headlight relay fails the low beams should still be on in almost all cases.

Let me guess, just another "superior" design feature of the Gen 1 right

When the headlight relay on my Gen 2 failed I had NO lights Lo or Hi beam. It was a good thing that I had a the Solteks, which became my headlights (tilted down) from somewhere in Mississippi to Fort Lauderdale.

 

[ionbeam]

The BIG question: With the engine running, do the Hi beams turn on? If they turn on it is 99% sure that both Lo beams are burned out. If the Hi beams don't turn on then you most likely do have an electrical problem.

The OP's Gen I has two headlight relays. Headlight relay 1 is main power controlled by the ECU via a Yellow/Black wire; when turned on supplies power to Headlight Relay 2 via a Green/Blue wire, Relay 2 switches Hi/Lo beams.

Relay 1: Coil: Ignition switched power (B+) on Blue/Black wire, switched by the Yellow/Black wire from the ECU; Contacts: Ignition switched power (B+) on Red/Yellow wire and switched power out on Green/Blue wire. The ECU won't ground the Yellow/Black wire and turn on the relay until the engine is running. If you turn the engine OFF using the Red Run/Stop button on the handle bars the ECU will leave the Yellow/Black wire grounded, leaving the headlights ON.

Relay 2: Coil: Power from Hi/Lo switch on the handle bar on Green/Black wire, grounded by Black wire -- when OFF = Lo beams, when ON = Hi beams; Contacts: 12 volts from Relay 1 on Green/Blue wire supplies power to the contacts; When the coil is OFF power comes from the G/Bl wire and leaves the relay on the Normally Closed contact Green wire powering the Lo beams; when the coil is ON power comes from the G/Bl wire and leaves the relay on the solid Yellow wire for the HI beams.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The high beam indicator below the speedo is the canary in the mine. Use it wisely.

 

[gazelle]

Ionbeam,

I'm not much on schematics unfortunately. No high beams or low at any time. There is voltage both at the fuse AND the handlebar hi-/lo beam switch. Just put in a new bulb at lunch to be sure it wasn't two bulbs at once. From this info is it possible to determine which relay is bad ? Assuming, of course that the problem is a relay. Bike does have Yamaha grips and they are heating fine. How difficult is it to get to the relays ?

Thanks much for your help !!

 

[Constant Mesh]

First, start the engine and select the high beams on the left handlebar toggle switch. If the high beam indicator illuminates relay 54 shown above is OK. If the high beam indicator doesn't light your problem is very likely associated with relay 54. Relay 54 controls both low and high beams. It's the headlight gatekeeper. All headlight power passes through 54.

54 and 55 are difficult to access, they're under the cowling behind the instrument cluster.

For an '04 I don't believe the grip heaters are affected in any way by the headlight relays. That connection first arrived on the '06 model, Gen II.

If these relays were easy to access your problem could be solved in less than 5 minutes.

 

[gazelle]

I've no high beam indicator w/motor running. Called my dealer and he's trying to determine which of 4 relays are the headlights. TWO of the relays are the same sku and only cost about $15. I'm thinking those are the relays related to the headlights. (on/off and hi/lo) Would you agree ? How big a deal to get to them ? I assume the front cowling must be removed ? Remove the windshield and then go from there ? Doesn't look like much more than removing bolts ?

Thanks !!!

 

[ionbeam]

A pretty good 'How To' access the relays and the layout of the relays can be found >>HERE<<

The headlight ON/OFF relay is the same as the fuel injection relay, Yamaha P/N 5EA-81950-20-00 which are ACM33211 M05 (MATSUSHITA). You could swap the two and confirm that the headlight relay is bad.

 

[Constant Mesh]

On the '04 & '05 I believe the fuel injection relay was moved back under the seat. It's packaged with the starting circuit cut-off relay as one large unit.

Maybe the glove box relay took its place under the front cowling? My '04 Service Manual doesn't show the glove box relay. I've always assumed it's under the front cowling.

 

[BobbyBlue]

Not to throw a wrench in this monkey, but years ago on my '05, my winshield motor caused issues with the headlights...a wire got skinned and would ground intermittently when moving the windshield.....which is exactly what i told the policeman....and got away ! good luck, you're in good hands !!!

 

[gazelle]

Ordered a headlight relay today. Dealer called Yamaha and says both relays are same part number, my cost about $20. From one of the responses I got the impression that they were NOT the same. Anybody know for sure ? Bike is an '04. I think i may attempt replacement myself and remove the fron cowling after studying the link with the great instructions and pictures. I donl't recall the member who posted it but THANKS !! It never seases to amaze me the time and effort some of you will exert to help the group. It is MUCH appreciated !!!

 

[wfooshee]

Aw, shucks! Yer welcome!

Just a couple of differences because of the glove box on '04 and '05, but nothing major. I also have no idea if the relays are the same in an '04, never having been that deep into one. The only '04 I've seen is Patriot's, and you have to take way more than that off of his to get that deep. Not interested!

 

[gazelle]

OK, just replaced the on/off relay. No dice ! There is at least some voltage to the relay...to two contacts. 13+ volts. Also voltage to the hi-lo realy. I dont see any bare wires, etc. Any suggestions ? Replace the hi-lo relay ? Seems my last hope with my limited electrical prowness. Thanks for any help offered !!!

 

[gazelle]

My headlight saga continues...'04 FJR 150,005 miles

No hi or low beam

no hi beam indicator on dash

replaced fuse

replaced bulb

replaced on/off realy

replaced hi/lo relay

Continuity from ECM (yellow/black wire) to on/off relay is good

All other functons on bike are OK

PRIME SUSPECT is now a bad circuit in the ECM affecting only the headight function; it is not grounding the relay to turn it on.

Am I on the right track ? It was suggested that I ground the yellow/blk connecton on the relay to see if lights come on. Reasonable suggestion ? If that worked I could actually install a switch and just turn on my headlights manually rather than replace the ECM ? No idea the cost of an ECM.

Any thoughts/suggestions from anyone ? Thanks to all for help thus far !

 

[ktown]

I just got done fixing a no headlight on a 06'. Luckly it happened at the end of shift daylight, only warned me 2x before failure both in same day!

Do you have a wiring diagram for your bike? I don't know if my service manual would help in telling you your wiring?

Anyways I traced my system and found a connector just to the left of headlight relay 1 in front of the battery to be defective. One pin

was corroded.I have a pic but not now-it's on the phone. This is the pin that sourced 12 volts to the e.c.u. I found no voltage to this connector, once I had disconnected the connector at the e.c.u. and used a jumper/fused and took this wire to ground it energized the circuit similar to engine starting and turning on the light circuit . Prior to this there was no voltage there. But again after cleaning the plug and pin connector I was able to energize the headlights by using the jumper.

I stress do not have the e.c.u connected to try this test. You will not have a usable one if things go astray.

Good luck- it helps if your hands are small and patience is large. Neither I have but can count to 10 slowly

 

[Chiefblueman]

Remove the connector from the headlight relay. Connect a dc voltmeter red lead to battery pos terminal. Connect voltmeter black lead to yellow/black wire from ECU at the plug. You should read zero volts. Start the bike. If you now read battery voltage the ECU is doing its negative logic thing. If not, you got a problem.

 

[wfooshee]

OK, just replaced the on/off relay. No dice ! There is at least some voltage to the relay...to two contacts. 13+ volts. Also voltage to the hi-lo realy. I dont see any bare wires, etc. Any suggestions ? Replace the hi-lo relay ? Seems my last hope with my limited electrical prowness. Thanks for any help offered !!!

Hi-lo relay should not have any voltage unless the engine is running. On/Off relay should have battery voltage at two terminals when the key is on. Both terminals are supplied by the headlight fuse, One terminal is the coil, which is grounded by the ECU on the Yellow/Black wire. A really simple test would be to ground that wire with the key on. Lights should come on. At least you should get 12 volts on the Green/Blue wire which "feeds" the hi/lo relay.

First test: Remove the connector from the headlight and look for continuity to ground on the black wire. If the lights aren't grounded they aren't gonna turn on.

Second test: With key on look for battery voltage at the red/yellow and blue/black wires on the on/off relay. no voltage anywhere else.

Third test: ground the yellow/black wire and see if the green/blue goes hot. If you've plugged the lights back in they should be on now.

If all of that happens then the on/off relay is correct.

At the hi/lo relay, key on, on/off relay NOT grounded at the yellow/black wire, and dimmer switch in low beam, there should be no voltage on any terminal.

Flip the dimmer to high and you should get battery volts on the green/black wire.

Ground the yellow/black at the on/off relay and the hi/lo relay should show battery volts at the green/blue wire and either the yellow wire or the green wire, depending on the dimmer switch position.

If all of that is correct, then it looks like the ECU is not grounding the yellow/black wire on engine start. I don't really know how that could happen, but I'd recheck continuity on the yellow/black wire all the way from the on/off relay to the ECU connector, with the ECU connector unplugged. The test in the post right above mine will check that grounding by the ECU.

Last resort. If this were my bike, and I could make the lights work by manually grounding that yellow/black wire, then I would simply ground it. Lights will come on with the key instead of engine start, so you'll be aware of battery issues sooner than other FJR riders (since you'd be cranking with the lights on) but otherwise it should be completely functional.

 

[gazelle]

Thanks for the GREAT detailed instructions ! VERY helpful to the electrically challenged. Couple questions...

Would love to see or at least get a description of the connection the ktown found that was bad...the one that sends the info to the ECM

Also....I've been unsuccessful tracing the black headlight ground wire to a ground point. Anyone know where to look ? I wouldn;t be surprised if that's the whole problem. 150K miles and I've ridden in a LOT of rain as well as roads that had been salted and then wet from melted snow/ice.