'04 Headlights out

[ktown]

By disconnecting the battery positive, put the meter on ohms, at the light fuse connect the meter, one lead of the meter.Disconnect the connector to the ecu, I use a oxy actyelene tip cleaner and insert the size to fit it into the wire connector to the ecu.Connect your other lead to the tip cleaner. Your circuit, if good will ohm around 100 ohms give or take a little. You are reading the coil/wire/circuit resistance. If not at a resistance reading you have an open in that wired circuit.If you had a reading then back to my original post and try it. You will have lights if the circuit checked with that ohm resistance. Then if lights energize look on eBay for a new/used ecu. I doubt that but you could hook your manual switch test/fix by grounding that ecu wire disconnected from the ecu. But that would seem pointless to regress the advantage of the bikes light circuit?

To check the black wire at the headlights for ground, disconnect both to the headlights. You will read a reading because of the bulb resistances otherwise. Connect one lead to the black and one to the ground terminal of the battery. Resistance of near 0 ohms means good ground.

I know you have been over some of this from others - so sorry if a repeat of same stuff.

 

[gazelle]

Thanks again ktown for the detailed instructions ! I'll print them out and go back to the drawing board. I did do a test that was explained in a previous post that supposedly conforms that the ECU is infact grounding the yellow/blk wire. Checked at the relay voltage with key on and zero. Started bike and got 12-13 volts. So it "appears" that the ECU is "doing its thing" with the negative logic and is OK ? I attempted to do the diagostic "code 51" test last night to confirm if relay was"clicking." Not sure I did it correctly since I didn't have the detailed instructions at home when I did it. I'll try that again later.

Not sure I understand your post concerning voltage TO the ECU and the wire that supplies it. Not sure my '04 is same as '06 but was curious what color wire that was and what the bad connector actually looks like..

Thanks again !

 

[Constant Mesh]

There is a wiring harness male/female plug connector between the headlight on/off relay and the ECM unit. The yellow/black relay coil wire passes through this plug connector. Eleven wires in total pass through the connector. I don't know where it's located but it's likely up front under the cowling. Wiring from the radiator fan relay and turn signal relay also pass through this connector.

It's possible but not likely that this connection has failed and is an open circuit. Maybe your testing so far has validated this connection but if you can locate the plug you might take it apart and inspect it.

 

[wfooshee]

This is looking more and more like ungrounded headlights....

Put one lead of an ohmmeter on the negative battery terminal, the other on the black wire in the headlight connector. That should measure very low ohms. (Should be zero ohms, but some hyper-sensitive meters insist on showing you stupid numbers like .000000334 ohms.)

 

[ionbeam]

...Put one lead of an ohmmeter on the negative battery terminal, the other on the black wire in the headlight connector. That should measure very low ohms. (Should be zero ohms, but some hyper-sensitive meters insist on showing you stupid numbers like .000000334 ohms.)

[hijack]

Any quality 3 1/2 digit multimeter will never show 0.000, when you touch the two meter probe tips together you are measuring the resistance of the probe wires. If you unplug one meter lead and touch the other probe tip directly into the open socket you will read 1/2 the previous resistance. Hyper-sensitive meters have a provision to cancel out the meter lead resistance and show only the resistance of the item being tested or show voltages without a voltage drop from the meter leads..

It is silly when the FSM asks someone to measure stator resistance because the meter leads have more resistance than the stator winding. About the only advantage of the old school needle movement meters is the ability to 'zero out' the reading to cancel the meter lead resistance.

With most automotive testing I usually would tell the average person that >2 ohms is good enough when checking for continuity.

[/hijack]

 

[Constant Mesh]

The high beam indicating light should operate correctly even if the headlight lamps are ungrounded.

I would remove the headlight on/off relay which is controlled by the ECM and then short with a jumper wire the relay contact connections at the female plug connector. Short the red/yellow to the green/blue. Then, switch on the ignition and see if you high or low beams.

Get the relay out of the circuit and see if everything else works OK. Then proceed from there.

 

[gazelle]

To EVERYONE who responded with thoughts, suggestions etc: Thanks much to all !! After much much blood sweat, and beers, here's the final score: I found a connection under the tank of my '04 "similiar" to the one ktown mentioned on his '06. Lookede great but sprayed it, etc. Lowered the tank. Started the bike and...LIGHTS ! Tried it several times and lights...then..no lights. I literally barely moved the on/off relay and got lights. Disconnected that connector under the tank and bike cntinued to run with lights ON ! Merely a coincidence I assume and not relatyed to the problem. Went back to on/off connector, whick has always looked great. Sprayed again...scratched contacts with a skinny probe tool. Result was much more difficult to get lights to go off. went back AGAIN and attempted to "tighten" the female connector..all 4 receptacles. Better results. Did it again and it became "impossible" to get the lights to go off. Both the old and new relay work fine ! I had tried both relays NUMEROUS times, tapped on them, etc and had never gotten a flicker of light. Had inspected the the connector woth a magnifying glass...looked great. Had inserted and removed the relay a bunch of times to try to make sure I had a good connection.

So I guess the lesson learned is if you have power to the relay, ECU grounds it upon starting...check the connection 47 times !!! Finished putting bike back together tonite and did a test ride downtown...20 miles round trip. NO problems !

Thanks again !!!

 

[Dudewado]

Gazelle, good job tracking down that tricky electron trap!

I'm an industrial electrician, and even when I sorta' know what I'm doing, I sometimes pull my hair out. (Check out the picture of the back of my head in Carver's ride report.)

You should give yourself a pat on the back and a raise.

 

[Donal]

Gazelle, good job tracking down that tricky electron trap!I'm an industrial electrician, and even when I sorta' know what I'm doing, I sometimes pull my hair out. (Check out the picture of the back of my head in Carver's ride report.)

You should give yourself a pat on the back and a raise.

+1 on the above. I guess people have forgotten that way back in the distant past (when I started) there were copper/oxide rectifiers. Current could flow from from copper to oxide but not the reverse! It is quite easy for a layer of oxide to build up on switches & contacts and cause all sorts of problems...................

 

[Queensland Ken]

(when I started) there were copper/oxide rectifiers

I've only worked with germanium and selenium rectifiers, phew !!!

You must be a bit older than me..... sorry.

I take it there are quite a few Sparkies that ride FJR's

 

[Donal]

(when I started) there were copper/oxide rectifiers

I've only worked with germanium and selenium rectifiers, phew !!!

You must be a bit older than me..... sorry.

I take it there are quite a few Sparkies that ride FJR's

Yes copper/oxide & iron/selenium were the two 'industrial' rectifiers, then there was a

mercury arc rectifier for workshops/offices.

 

[gazelle]

Thanks for the kudos guys ! I AM quite proud of myself. No electical training but a pretty "logical thinker" and stubborn as h&!! !! I sorta wonder how much shop time the local dealer would have charged....assuming their tech actually found the problem ? Cost me a lot of time but that's all. My local dealer parts guy insists that if I didn' need a relay being it back for a refund even though he had to special order it ! Of coure I DID just buy FOUR sets of PR 2's from him to get me through until next spring when he can sxell them cheap again. He met/bettered the best price I could find online. They make a BIG buy early in the "season" but when those are gone the price goes from a little under $250/set including tax to over $300 !

I'm especially proud that I got it all back together ! A benefit was that I was able to straighten the left side mirror mount that had been "tweaked" from a 30 MPH low side a while back that resulted in a low hanging mirror...

 

[Queensland Ken]

Gives you a good feeling when you can work on your own bike.

The Forums are great !!!

Donal, have you seen pics of the Bass Straight AC/DC submarine DC/AC set up, or the one across the 2 Islands of New Zealand.

 

[Dudewado]

(when I started) there were copper/oxide rectifiers

I've only worked with germanium and selenium rectifiers, phew !!!

You must be a bit older than me..... sorry.

I take it there are quite a few Sparkies that ride FJR's

Yes copper/oxide & iron/selenium were the two 'industrial' rectifiers, then there was a

mercury arc rectifier for workshops/offices.

Holy smokes! I bet if you got that thing up to 88 miles an hour you could time travel.

 

[SCB]

To EVERYONE who responded with thoughts, suggestions etc: Thanks much to all !! After much much blood sweat, and beers, here's the final score: I found a connection under the tank of my '04 "similiar" to the one ktown mentioned on his '06....

Revived this old thread just to mention that I had the exact same problem last night...Both headlights/both high and low beams died on my way home at 11:00 last night. Fortunately my son was with me on his bike and lit the way home.

Got up this morning thinking it was going to be a bad headlight relay #1. Was able to get to the relay just by removing dash panels A and B, and the 'trap door' electric window cover on the front cowl. I was able to slip the relay up off the metal tongue it's mounted on, pull it out and unplug it. It tested fine??

I plugged the relay back in, turned on the bike and tested the voltage to the red/yellow power wire. I expected 12+v but got an inconsistant 1-2 volts??? Propped up the tank, found the connector mentioned above and inspected it. All pins good EXCEPT the red/yellow wire which were slightly charred. Cleaned the pins up, plugged them back together, fired it up and VOILA...LIGHTS!

So thanks again to all who contributed and to this forum for saving my butt once again!!