100 lbs above GVWR

[FJRpilot1977]

Hello! I am a new owner of a 2016 ES. I was wondering if I could get some opinions here. I just weighed myself at 270 lbs, without gear. With textile gear & helmet, I am around 300lbs. Even more with leather, of course. Wife is 125 / 140+ with gear. Boom! We are maxxed-out without luggage or any add-ons! Add top case (which I have just ordered), add luggage in all 3 cases, puts us way over the weight capacity of 441 lbs, or whatever it is on the 16 ES. Just received T-rex engine and pannier guards, and noticed the box weighs 21 lbs. I'm considering sending the T-Rex stuff back and just install a slider for engine and take my chances on everything else. I need every pound I can spare here. I work in the automotive industry and have seen what happens when people modify crap and exceed limits. I know FJR's are tough and the GVWR is a "safe range" and could possibly handle more, but ride and handling are sacrificed, and safety is priority.

I cant imagine I'm the only one with 100lbs over the GVWR with a pillion? I guess it comes down to swapping suspension, assuming the structure has no issue, or ride as is. Nothing I can do with the tire limits (which I am not sure what they are without getting on the ground and looking). I find tires all are about the same weight rating within a size for the most part. Suggestions, besides losing 80 lbs? I take this seriously because when we ride, we try to find tail of the dragon type stuff. For the ES model, any suspension upgrade/ spring replacement recommendations? I would want to upgrade front and rear and get it over with. If anyone is experienced in this department, any info is appreciated. I have installed springs inside forks before, but not on an ES. My preference would be to ship them off to be re-worked vs replacement if I can help it.

All opinions welcome. Thanks.

 

[CollingsBob]

I think you are wise to be looking at these numbers. Failure at any speed could be catastrophic…

 

[TomInPA]

This sounds like a question for Los Rosbustos Motorcycle Club. I can assure you are not the first to top the scales. Without the ES model, I would advise you to get a high quality aftermarket shock with a 1000 lb spring and upgraded forks. I don't know what options are out there for the expensive electronic ride control bikes.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Even at maximum preload, you're out of spring on the rear shock. Handling and "normal" bike geometry will be compromised due to excessive rear sag. Not aware of anyone offering replacement springs for ES FJRs. The Tenere ES crew had some success with Race Tech supplying larger springs with a custom machined bottom perch. Last I heard RT had little interest in ES FJRs.

Echoing ^^^^ Tom, for your planned weight an "A" model FJR would need ~1000 #/in capacity rear shock spring.

~G

 

[graytaz]

You mentioned tires. Most tire manufacturers make regular tires in the sizes that fit the FJR but in your case, you do NOT want to be running them. You want the GT tires which are spec'd for the FJR.

 

[Bounce]

Yep. The FJR is a smaller bike and not made for jumbo loads like a Gold Wing.

Consider having her follow in a 4-wheeler with all the luggage. That's going to affect the handling of your bike more than either breaking the bike in half or pulling a trailer. Alternately, consider getting her on her own bike.

 

[kevin13]

Hello! I am a new owner of a 2016 ES. I was wondering if I could get some opinions here. I just weighed myself at 270 lbs, without gear. With textile gear & helmet, I am around 300lbs. Even more with leather, of course. Wife is 125 / 140+ with gear. Boom! We are maxxed-out without luggage or any add-ons! Add top case (which I have just ordered), add luggage in all 3 cases, puts us way over the weight capacity of 441 lbs, or whatever it is on the 16 ES. Just received T-rex engine and pannier guards, and noticed the box weighs 21 lbs. I'm considering sending the T-Rex stuff back and just install a slider for engine and take my chances on everything else. I need every pound I can spare here. I work in the automotive industry and have seen what happens when people modify crap and exceed limits. I know FJR's are tough and the GVWR is a "safe range" and could possibly handle more, but ride and handling are sacrificed, and safety is priority.

I cant imagine I'm the only one with 100lbs over the GVWR with a pillion? I guess it comes down to swapping suspension, assuming the structure has no issue, or ride as is. Nothing I can do with the tire limits (which I am not sure what they are without getting on the ground and looking). I find tires all are about the same weight rating within a size for the most part. Suggestions, besides losing 80 lbs? I take this seriously because when we ride, we try to find tail of the dragon type stuff. For the ES model, any suspension upgrade/ spring replacement recommendations? I would want to upgrade front and rear and get it over with. If anyone is experienced in this department, any info is appreciated. I have installed springs inside forks before, but not on an ES. My preference would be to ship them off to be re-worked vs replacement if I can help it.

All opinions welcome. Thanks.

It might be worth considering leaving the FJR as is, use the money that would have gone towards mods to get a second bike, maybe an older Goldwing, that could handle the two-up load?

 

[deagle]

First, the Goldwing doesn't have much more carrying capacity than the FJR. As a large man myself, I've been looking at Goldwings for many years for added comfort in 2 up riding. I've always been surprised how close to the carrying capacity the Goldwing was to the FJR. Not a significant difference at all.
Quick internet search that is not year specific, just from Cycleworld and Motorcyclist articles:
FJR: 460 lbs.
BMW 1600: 488 lbs.
Goldwing: 423 lbs. (again, not sure what gen this is from....I thought the newer Goldwings had a little better capacity but can't remember).

Now on my 3rd FJR, I've ridden 2 up with packed saddlebags and top case on many trips. We end up well over 500 lbs loaded. Straight line stability is not affected at all. I do run the GT tires, but don't know how much that matters. I'm not racing R1's on the dragon 2 up, and quite frankly I'm not racing R1's solo up either. The bike handles fine. Like anything, I'm sure it would be better with suspension set exactly to my requirements. However, all 3 FJR's have worked great out of the box (better with helibars and Russell seat), and I have no complaints and no desire to upgrade the suspension components. If I lived closer to curvy-road-paradise maybe my view would differ.

Your desires and objections may differ. And everyone will have their own opinion. Welcome and enjoy your new bike!!

 

[Bill Lumberg]

First, the Goldwing doesn't have much more carrying capacity than the FJR. As a large man myself, I've been looking at Goldwings for many years for added comfort in 2 up riding. I've always been surprised how close to the carrying capacity the Goldwing was to the FJR. Not a significant difference at all.
Quick internet search that is not year specific, just from Cycleworld and Motorcyclist articles:
FJR: 460 lbs.
BMW 1600: 488 lbs.
Goldwing: 423 lbs. (again, not sure what gen this is from....I thought the newer Goldwings had a little better capacity but can't remember).

Now on my 3rd FJR, I've ridden 2 up with packed saddlebags and top case on many trips. We end up well over 500 lbs loaded. Straight line stability is not affected at all. I do run the GT tires, but don't know how much that matters. I'm not racing R1's on the dragon 2 up, and quite frankly I'm not racing R1's solo up either. The bike handles fine. Like anything, I'm sure it would be better with suspension set exactly to my requirements. However, all 3 FJR's have worked great out of the box (better with helibars and Russell seat), and I have no complaints and no desire to upgrade the suspension components. If I lived closer to curvy-road-paradise maybe my view would differ.

Your desires and objections may differ. And everyone will have their own opinion. Welcome and enjoy your new bike!!

First, the Goldwing doesn't have much more carrying capacity than the FJR. As a large man myself, I've been looking at Goldwings for many years for added comfort in 2 up riding. I've always been surprised how close to the carrying capacity the Goldwing was to the FJR. Not a significant difference at all.
Quick internet search that is not year specific, just from Cycleworld and Motorcyclist articles:
FJR: 460 lbs.
BMW 1600: 488 lbs.
Goldwing: 423 lbs. (again, not sure what gen this is from....I thought the newer Goldwings had a little better capacity but can't remember).

Now on my 3rd FJR, I've ridden 2 up with packed saddlebags and top case on many trips. We end up well over 500 lbs loaded. Straight line stability is not affected at all. I do run the GT tires, but don't know how much that matters. I'm not racing R1's on the dragon 2 up, and quite frankly I'm not racing R1's solo up either. The bike handles fine. Like anything, I'm sure it would be better with suspension set exactly to my requirements. However, all 3 FJR's have worked great out of the box (better with helibars and Russell seat), and I have no complaints and no desire to upgrade the suspension components. If I lived closer to curvy-road-paradise maybe my view would differ.

Your desires and objections may differ. And everyone will have their own opinion. Welcome and enjoy your new bike!!

Spot on.

 

[Bill FJR]

Recommend you contact Traxxion Dynamics for your suspension issues. Don’t know if they can do anything for the ES models, but they are FJR suspension wizards and have worked their magic on a Gen II and III for me. So they should be able to help if anyone can. (770) 592-3823.

Can’t speak to the other issues of overloading.

 

[Madmudder]

I thought Yamaha indicated you could use the top box or the side paniers do to the weakness of the rear subframe and that's why Givi made the SR357 & or the Gerald stiffy kit to beef up the rear frame structure. I did read a shop in England had been modifying ES shocks not to say someone on this side of the pond has not done it recently but I also am unaware of anyone.

 

[Fontanaman]

Even at maximum preload, you're out of spring on the rear shock. Handling and "normal" bike geometry will be compromised due to excessive rear sag. Not aware of anyone offering replacement springs for ES FJRs. The Tenere ES crew had some success with Race Tech supplying larger springs with a custom machined bottom perch. Last I heard RT had little interest in ES FJRs.

Echoing ^^^^ Tom, for your planned weight an "A" model FJR would need ~1000 #/in capacity rear shock spring.

~G

I second what ~G says. I used to own a 2009 FJR with after market suspension. I "upgraded" to a 17 ES. I like all the "upgrades" less the rear shock. The rear shock has a 680# spring and I used to have an 850# spring. With the ES I can't set the preload high enough when I am two up. The bike handles poorly when two up because the geometry is compromised. Since I don't ride two up frequently I gave up on creating a solution. I have kept the 17ES because most of the time the suspension is barely good for one up. The ES shock isn't nearly as good as the Penske on my 09.

Part of the problem is the ES only allows four preload settings. A conventional shock with a adjustment nut is far superior as you can set it where ever you want from 1-100 not just four settings.

Having now owned a motorcycle with electronic suspension has made me a skeptic of these systems. You get what the manufacturing thinks you need and reduces the owner's ability adjust it to their needs. Plus you get stuck with the manufactures shock.

As I see it the choices are:

1) Find a much heavier spring and hopefully one of the four ES preload settings will get the appropriate sag.

2) Install a Penske shock with the appropriate spring and hopefully "stowing the ES mechanism" will not cause an idiot light to illuminate. You could try removing the ES mechanism and testing this before buying a new shock. (this is my preferred option if my ES shock fails)

3) If the first two choices don't work, sell the ES and get an A model then install aftermarket suspension. I have given this some thought but the front forks on the ES don't need bushings replaced so +1 for the ES package. It is hard to find a FJR A model.

4) Sell the FJR and get a bike that rated for the loads you want to carry. The brakes on the FJR are ok but not spectacular. With 100# over the rated load brake performance will be diminished - that is a risk I'd have to consider carefully.

Best wishes.

 

[WBill]

Gross vehicle weight is about more than suspension. Brakes and drive train are also considerations. WBill

 

[FJRpilot1977]

I aill

Recommend you contact Traxxion Dynamics for your suspension issues. Don’t know if they can do anything for the ES models, but they are FJR suspension wizards and have worked their magic on a Gen II and III for me. So they should be able to help if anyone can. (770) 592-3823.

Can’t speak to the other issues of overloading.

Thanks, I will call them and see what they can do. If they cannot help me, I have decided to try to lose 30-40lbs. I have been talking about that for awhile. It can only help me live longer! I've been playing with riding gear and luggage and found a range of be 55-100lbs approx. over max capacity, depending on how heavy we load up. Calculating with cargo weight at specified max capacity for panniers and top case are how I came up with 100lbs. Some of my gear is heaver than others. I think one combo was well over 30 lbs just for me gear. I hope to be able to install t-rex guards (20lbs approx.) someday.

 

[FJRpilot1977]

I second what ~G says. I used to own a 2009 FJR with after market suspension. I "upgraded" to a 17 ES. I like all the "upgrades" less the rear shock. The rear shock has a 680# spring and I used to have an 850# spring. With the ES I can't set the preload high enough when I am two up. The bike handles poorly when two up because the geometry is compromised. Since I don't ride two up frequently I gave up on creating a solution. I have kept the 17ES because most of the time the suspension is barely good for one up. The ES shock isn't nearly as good as the Penske on my 09.

Part of the problem is the ES only allows four preload settings. A conventional shock with a adjustment nut is far superior as you can set it where ever you want from 1-100 not just four settings.

Having now owned a motorcycle with electronic suspension has made me a skeptic of these systems. You get what the manufacturing thinks you need and reduces the owner's ability adjust it to their needs. Plus you get stuck with the manufactures shock.

As I see it the choices are:

1) Find a much heavier spring and hopefully one of the four ES preload settings will get the appropriate sag.

2) Install a Penske shock with the appropriate spring and hopefully "stowing the ES mechanism" will not cause an idiot light to illuminate. You could try removing the ES mechanism and testing this before buying a new shock. (this is my preferred option if my ES shock fails)

3) If the first two choices don't work, sell the ES and get an A model then install aftermarket suspension. I have given this some thought but the front forks on the ES don't need bushings replaced so +1 for the ES package. It is hard to find a FJR A model.

4) Sell the FJR and get a bike that rated for the loads you want to carry. The brakes on the FJR are ok but not spectacular. With 100# over the rated load brake performance will be diminished - that is a risk I'd have to consider carefully.

Best wishes.

I hope option 1 works for me. Option 4, I really don't know of any bikes with the weight capacity I seem without having 3 wheels. If it starts with an H , I would rather walk. Haha.

 

[Bounce]

https://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/03/power-to-weight-ratio/

 

[FJRpilot1977]

I second what ~G says. I used to own a 2009 FJR with after market suspension. I "upgraded" to a 17 ES. I like all the "upgrades" less the rear shock. The rear shock has a 680# spring and I used to have an 850# spring. With the ES I can't set the preload high enough when I am two up. The bike handles poorly when two up because the geometry is compromised. Since I don't ride two up frequently I gave up on creating a solution. I have kept the 17ES because most of the time the suspension is barely good for one up. The ES shock isn't nearly as good as the Penske on my 09.

Part of the problem is the ES only allows four preload settings. A conventional shock with a adjustment nut is far superior as you can set it where ever you want from 1-100 not just four settings.

Having now owned a motorcycle with electronic suspension has made me a skeptic of these systems. You get what the manufacturing thinks you need and reduces the owner's ability adjust it to their needs. Plus you get stuck with the manufactures shock.

As I see it the choices are:

1) Find a much heavier spring and hopefully one of the four ES preload settings will get the appropriate sag.

2) Install a Penske shock with the appropriate spring and hopefully "stowing the ES mechanism" will not cause an idiot light to illuminate. You could try removing the ES mechanism and testing this before buying a new shock. (this is my preferred option if my ES shock fails)

3) If the first two choices don't work, sell the ES and get an A model then install aftermarket suspension. I have given this some thought but the front forks on the ES don't need bushings replaced so +1 for the ES package. It is hard to find a FJR A model.

4) Sell the FJR and get a bike that rated for the loads you want to carry. The brakes on the FJR are ok but not spectacular. With 100# over the rated load brake performance will be diminished - that is a risk I'd have to consider carefully.

Best wishes.

I talked to Dan @ Traxxion. They have a rebuild kit for front, AK20, for $1,500) and Penske 8983 for the rear $1,100. First of all, ouch! I didn’t expect it to be free, but before I bite the bullet, I need to research a little. Traxxion’s stuff does not adjust electronically, of course, and when I asked if there is a bypass for the ES system to prevent warning lights, I didn't get a response (yet). I wish for a solution that adjusts electronically, as that is why I purchased the ES, but it is what it is.. I did not do enough research before I purchased apparently. I should have bought the A-model, but the cornering lights are nice. I do have one question for you. When I am riding 1-up, I set preload for 2-up, or 2-up with cargo. I love the balance of handling and comfort. I have not owned a bike that soaks up the bumps like this one does and lets me take hard turns at the same time. With the Penske on your ’09, did you lose any of the cushiness for handling? I don’t want to change the 1-up pleasure drastically. Thanks for any input you can give on that!

 

[Bounce]

E-adjust means going back to the OEM shock, so re-springing becomes your only option. Yes?

 

[BigOgre]

Yeah, suspension stuff and the like can get a little pricey but it depends on what you like and want. Personally I get the feeling you'd like/want the numbers to all fall within range, and with your background I can see possibly why, but maybe there's a little over-analysis going on? I say that with all due respect but also without being able to recall ever reading about a FJR coming apart at the seams due to overloading. The same basic bike has been out for around 20 years now, seen used by many large people and plenty loaded to the max I'm sure and the only issue related to weight that occasionally pops up is the rear sub-frame which really isn't related to what you're addressing. My point is I honestly don't think you're going to hurt the bike riding it two up like you're envisioning. (And keep the T-Rex guards. Risk/reward.)

Now all that said, perfectly reasonable that you'd like the bike to handle like on rails as they say when two up and on "the tail of the dragon type stuff". You mention enjoying the handling and comfort of the bike when solo so it seems you'd appreciate that also when travelling with your wife. That may be hard to do. (This is different in my mind than being able to use the bike safely.) If that's the priority for you then yes, you'll probably have limited options as outlined above. A different bike? Completely unload it before the fun stuff? Maybe a trailer which you can leave somewhere? Probably your best bet is what Madmudder pointed out about getting the ES shock rebuilt. I too remember hearing within the past year of a fella in Europe (Scotland?) that found a shop there somewhere who was rebuilding them at what seemed like a reasonable cost. Me and a few others took notice as servicing the ES system at some point is always in the back of the mind and it's good to have options. But not sure if that place can do 'upgrades' as oppose to just repairs. I'll see if I can find the thread but do a search yourself when you get a chance.

In the short-term though I'd suggest what's been said to many a new owner and that's to just go ride the thing. In this case with your wife aboard for a few day rides before determining the bike is unusable. See how it feels on different road types and then decide if you can live or not with the less-than-stellar handling in those (few?) situations. You may return saying absolutely not and start looking at what your options are or conversely you may find it's not as bad as you imagined and not worth the effort to find nirvana. Either way you'll have more than just numbers to inform your decision.

To sum this long-winded thing up, I don't believe you're going to mechanically damage the bike in any way using it as you described but that's different than what you may like it to be or what you're comfortable with. Sorta like me way overloading my pick-up once or twice. Headlights pointing up, going slow and leaving a little extra braking room, taking turns nice and easy. Do I like it that way? No. Is it worth addressing? Not to me. Am I hurting the truck? Seriously doubt it.

 

[TomInPA]

I'd be tempted to sell the ES to someone that wants the premium ES suspension and stuff, and actually downgrade to a Gen II or Gen III A model. That way you can install upgraded springs and Penske 8983 shock for less than the cost of the swap. I have the Penske 8983 with 850 lb springs. Bought it used for $450 and had it rebuilt after a couple years, and installed 1000# fork springs with the stock cartridges, new slides and oil. That whole fork rebuild was under $200 in parts. You might have to hook up to a tech meet if you don't do that kind of thing. Just saying, it is possible to transform the bike to a heavy hauler with good performance.