2003 FJR Won't Start

[wfooshee]

ffejtable:Battery. Guaranteed.

Cold battery won't put out the same juice as a warm battery, especially when age-weakened. That difference could be enough to keep the injection system off.

I just replaced my battery for the exact symptoms you describe. Easy warm start, no cold start. When cold, about 1.5 seconds of slow crank maximum, then it stops. If it didn't kick during that time, it's push-start time. (or jump-start, which is lots easier.)

My battery lived on a tender, which turned green like it's supposed to. Still wouldn't crank well when cold. Full volts at rest has not a damn thing to do with current capacity.

New battery 2 months ago, it's a completeley different bike.

 

[odot]

Sorry, wifey tole me I couldn't buy you a battery.

 

[mcatrophy]

Sorry, wifey tole me I couldn't buy you a battery.

Buy a new wife.

 

[odot]

I'm already upside down on this one..........

 

[wfooshee]

She likes that, doesn't she?????

 

[odot]

Now yer just being gross...........

 

[Abigail]

Fun with my FJR round two:

Had a dead battery after not riding for a month or so, couldn't jump it with a car (car was off, I hear you aren't supposed to have them on when jump starting motorcycles). A friend charged the battery for me and my bike started right up, however, when I started it again after 20 minutes, it was slower, and the next start 10 minutes later was slower still. Rode for maybe 20 more minutes, and it wouldn't start at all. In retrospect, probably not a good idea to run errands on a weak battery.

Hooked up a cheapie battery tender, but even though it read green, the bike would never turn over fast enough to get started. We concluded the cold weather had killed the battery, and I ordered another Westco from BikeEffects.

I forgot y'all's advice and put the new battery in without charging it first. Bike started fine, several times in my garage. After it had been idling a few minutes, I *thought* I saw some smoke, and definitely smelled something burnt, but since it was minimal and all the different lights worked, bike kept idling smoothly, I chalked it up to something that had gotten on a hot part of the engine. Hey, it's happened to me multiple times with cars and lawnmowers before, why not with my FJR?

After a 5-minute ride to my friend's house, we had to push-start it. He's pretty good at this by now, so we decided to risk riding 10 miles to a store. Yep, had to push start it there, but it was harder, battery was deader. On the way home I started losing power. Flipped on the high beams, which resulted in my dash display going completely blank. (RPM and speed gauge went to zero.) Flipped 'em back off and the dash display came back on, but I kept losing power and the engine light came on. Bike completely died just before I coasted into a nearby parking lot.

It seems to me like the battery is (or would be) fine, but something on the bike is draining it. Or maybe whatever's supposed to charge the battery, isn't. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance for any advice...I feel a little guilty for only coming on here when I have a problem, but not guilty enough to keep me from asking for help!

A couple more facts which may or may not be relevant. This summer my bike would sometimes not start. Issue one was when when it was hot and I tried to start it IMMEDIATELY after turning it off. It would try to start, but not quite have enough juice. If I waited 10-30 seconds, it would start right up. Issue two happened only intermittently while I was on a 2-week bike trip: I would turn the ignition on and nothing would happen. No dials going up and back down, no friendly whir of the fuel pump, nada. If I would turn the ignition with just the right amount of force and hold my mouth just right, everything would be normal and the bike would start right up. After I got home, it started fine every time.

 

[ionbeam]

It sure sounds like your charging system isn't working. The way you started losing power and then killed it by turning on the high beams is classic for a charging system failure. If you or a friend has a meter it is pretty simple to check, a How-To will follow if you have a meter.

Are you the original owner? It wasn't uncommon for people to install an Electrosport stator to get nearly 100 watts more power over the OEM stator. But, it came at a price, the Electrosport stator would usually fry itself in less than 40k miles resulting in the exact symptoms you report here. You wouldn't smell the stator in the housing but you sure could smell spliced wires that are required with the Electrosport or the voltage rectifier/regulator.

 

[Aasland]

You may have more than one problem.

Hooked up a cheapie battery tender, but even though it read green, the bike would never turn over fast enough to get started.... etc

If i understand battery tenders (at least the ones I have, cheapies and expensies), they don't charge like trickle chargers do. They just maintain the currrent battery level. You usually have to charge the battery first, with a charger, then put it on the tender.

 

[RossKean]

A battery tender should be able to (slowly) charge a partially discharged battery and then maintain it at the "float" voltage. Its not very useful for recharging a seriously depleted battery.

 

[Fred W]

I'm with ionbeam. Sounds like your charging system is kaput. Need to measure the charge voltage being supplied to your battery after you get it charged and started again. It should be ~14.1-14.3 volts with no high load accessories turned on. If you are seeing significantly less, then that is the root problem.

Prior symptoms last summer may or may not be related. Best is to work from a clean slate and see what's happening right now.

 

[Abigail]

It sure sounds like your charging system isn't working. The way you started losing power and then killed it by turning on the high beams is classic for a charging system failure. If you or a friend has a meter it is pretty simple to check, a How-To will follow if you have a meter.
Are you the original owner? It wasn't uncommon for people to install an Electrosport stator to get nearly 100 watts more power over the OEM stator. But, it came at a price, the Electrosport stator would usually fry itself in less than 40k miles resulting in the exact symptoms you report here. You wouldn't smell the stator in the housing but you sure could smell spliced wires that are required with the Electrosport or the voltage rectifier/regulator.

I do have a meter, and I'm the 3rd owner. The first guy did a few farkles, so maybe the Electrosport stator was one of them. Sure appreciate the tip, I would never have known about that!

Edit: I see a very in-depth post you left on a thread titled "Intermittent problem starting Gen 1," and plan to follow those steps beside what you mentioned here.

 

[Abigail]

I'm with ionbeam. Sounds like your charging system is kaput. Need to measure the charge voltage being supplied to your battery after you get it charged and started again. It should be ~14.1-14.3 volts with no high load accessories turned on. If you are seeing significantly less, then that is the root problem.
Prior symptoms last summer may or may not be related. Best is to work from a clean slate and see what's happening right now.

Thanks for the advice, the battery is freshly charged and I will test that tomorow. Also look for the Electrosport stator ionbeam mentioned.

 

[Fred W]

If the problem is the stator, you'd notice that by checking the charge voltage and finding it is too low, or non-existent (engine just running off the 12V battery).

 

[ionbeam]

This is excerpted from another post so the context may not be good but the info is correct. If your stator passes this test but the Rectifier/Regulator pins to the battery are too low the R/R is bad. If it looks like the R/R is bad let me know, I have a spare, known good R/R gathering dust.

In the procedure I did a voltage drop test on the battery cables first to be sure that I didn't have a cable or wire problem. It is good practice to verify things is a sequence but you can jump right to the stator test. If the stator passes then you should do a complete troubleshooting.


...While parking my bike at the first stop I noticed that the headlight's reflection in a store’s window were a deep yellow. This prompted a quick glance at the volt meter – 11.2 volts....

Off comes panels C and D. The battery terminals are just a tiny bit loose, not enough to cause my problems directly. A real volt meter shows 11.2 volts on the battery with the engine off. I started the engine and the voltage dropped to 10.9 volts reflecting the power consumed starting the engine. Revving the engine to 5k rpm produced zero increase in voltage. Not good. I plugged my trickle charger into the permanently attached pig-tail for a quick feeding.

Off comes panels A & B as well as the (left side) lower fairings. On my Gen I, I now have access to the rectifier/regulator (RR) plus the stator and battery connectors. A quick inspection does not show any problems with the wires or connectors. I back probed the heavy battery output wires attached to the RR and started the engine. Still no charging voltage right at the RR. I did a voltage drop measurement from the + output of the RR to the + terminal of the battery -- 0.2 volts which is good. I did a voltage drop test to the negative terminal of the battery -- 0.3 volts, acceptable. I did a negative voltage drop test to the engine -- 0.5 volts, not good but not related to my failure. The excessive voltage drop seems to be at the lug crimp where the cable attaches to the engine block. Another day, another time I will address this problem.

So, the problem may be a short in the main harness, a bad RR or a bad stator. I unplugged the battery wires from the RR and with the engine running, I checked the battery voltage right on the R/R terminals. There was still no charging voltage even with the whole motorcycle electrical system out of the picture.

...I did an AC voltage test on the stator. (Not said in the post, unplug the stator three wire connector and with the connector in your hand probe the pins.) All three wires should read ≥60 volts AC, any phase to any phase when the engine is running at 5k rpm. Two phases were just a bit over 48 volts and one phase was 26 volts. Bad stator.

Also from another post, a little more detail about testing the stator.

The surest way to determine the health of the stator is to use an AC volt meter to read the output voltages of the stator at the stator plug. With the plug unplugged, at 5k rpm read >60 volts any phase to any phase -- do not use chassis ground, measure between any two pins in the connector. The key thing to look for is that all the readings are within 2-3 volts of each other. Watch your fingers, there is a significant shock risk.

The absolute voltage reading is not really important, it is the phase to phase readings that are key. If all three phases are nearly the same but the voltage is only 55 VAC don't worry, it's good. If all three voltages are down around 25 VAC -- that's bad.

 

[Abigail]

Soooo....if I need a stator (and it's looking like I do) is there one in particular y'all recommend? I'm more interested in longevity than fanciness, so I'm thinking Electrosport ain't for me.

 

[FJRay]

I think you get stock or Electrojunk. I'm not aware of anyone else making one. I'm on my second electrosport and they work well for awhile. If you don't need a lot of extra juice, go with stock because they last a looong time. you can run quite a bit of stuff with stock and it's a good idea to mount a good volt meter to monitor the battery.

 

[Abigail]

Thanks, FJRay! Turns out it wasn't the stator, it was the RR. I know this because A. the stator is putting out 50V+ and 2. the connection between the RR and the battery is good and III. the smoke was getting out of the RR. Thanks again, ionbeam for the clear troubleshooting directions!

 

[ionbeam]

Thanks, FJRay! Turns out it wasn't the stator, it was the RR. I know this because A. the stator is putting out 50V+ and 2. the connection between the RR and the battery is good and III. the smoke was getting out of the RR. Thanks again, ionbeam for the clear troubleshooting directions!

All three stator leads (any lead to any lead) were ~50 VAC? If they were all within a few volts your problem is indeed the voltage regulator.

Take right hand, put over left shoulder and pat your back -- GOOD JOB!

I have a known good R/R sitting on a shelf if you would like to swap it in.

A volt meter like a Datel or equivalent is always a good idea.

 

[Abigail]

All three stator leads (any lead to any lead) were ~50 VAC? If they were all within a few volts your problem is indeed the voltage regulator.
Take right hand, put over left shoulder and pat your back -- GOOD JOB!

I have a known good R/R sitting on a shelf if you would like to swap it in.

A volt meter like a Datel or equivalent is always a good idea.

It was about 45V at idle and closer to 60 at 4k. Hard to get an exact measurement, as it was hard to hold the throttle perfectly steady. The voltage was consistent from lead to lead, I checked all combinations.

Yes, I would love to get your good R/R, since I'm concerned that I may have bought a bad one last time. (Electrosport, $100) I don't know why else it would go bad in 18 months/18k miles.

Will be ordering a volt meter when I order another stator cover gasket. Got a little carried away in the taking-things-apart phase.

Edited to finish saying what I was trying to say...haven't quite got the hang of the reply box yet.