2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

[Farkles]

I agree. My bike runs just fine in Medford elavation 1300 but when I go to Redmond OR elevation 5000 it get very unpredictable And at times dangerous?

I don't think it has to do whith lugging or anything like that it just vapor locks and then wam off we go.

With a bike as powerfull as this the wam can be scary. Or when you pull out to go back on the road and it just stalls? Not fun.

 

[Bounce]

WOW! Can you feel the love in the room?

I read his report with interest while noting I seldom ride my '03 below 2500 simply because it doesn't like to be lugged. MSF and other low-speed riding? Even on a GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, I'd keep the revs up, feather the clutch and add just a smidge of rear trail braking (yes on a Honda linked brake system). It settles the suspension, gets the flywheel weight up, and does other good things to help with stability at low speeds.

 

[dcarver]

Wow Ed, what an intro, huh? I would like to thank you for putting forth your ideas, qualifications and willingness to help. It appears some owners of gen II bikes have problems more severe than your customers. If these folks are running at 5k+ and can barely make it up a hill, they may as well be riding a carbureted 1979 KZ1300 <_< . I've not experienced this issue on my 06 with 28k and have ridden many high mountain passes. Guess I'm lucky.

Anyway Ed, I know you’re a big boy and all, but wanted to say hang in there, don't take responses personal, and hope that you stick around! I'll come up and see your shop soon. I live in Creston CA.

 

[Last Chance]

I agree. My bike runs just fine in Medford elavation 1300 but when I go to Redmond OR elevation 5000 it get very unpredictable And at times dangerous?I don't think it has to do whith lugging or anything like that it just vapor locks and then wam off we go.

With a bike as powerfull as this the wam can be scary. Or when you pull out to go back on the road and it just stalls? Not fun.

Interesting. I have not noticed any "sudden surging" while climbing. I don't run that much in the mountains. I've only been on 2-3 group rides so far and I don't think we had more than a 3-4 thousand variation from essentially sea level.

However the dying/stalling on start-up IS the major problem I faced with the FJR. It is now 10 months old and I've essentially "cured" that problem. This is good, because it has been the direct cause of about 4-5 tip-overs I've had. The other 4-5 were because of my short legs and my own stupidity. I have done ALL the mods for throttle problems. Well, almost all. Still need to do a TBS; coming to a garage near me soon. However I have a PCIII, Ergo throttle sleeve, reduced the throttle spring one turn and raised the Idle. I've learned to blip the throttle prior to starting off and making sure I don't back off the throttle while the clutch is "feathered" in the friction zone. It seems if I back off the throttle, while starting up (do to too rapid acceleration for "conditions") AND I'm still releasing the clutch lever (in the friction zone) the FJR (MY '06 JFR) has a NASTY habit of "making a coughing (1 quick cough) as it dies, SUDDENLY! When I hear that sound I try to straighten her up, while reaching for the start button!!!!

I now run the idle at 1150 rpm. As high as it will go with the "idle adjustment screw". I have learned not to reduce the throttle anytime during take-off without pulling in (engaging ?) the clutch lever first. If it is close I will blip the throttle as I pull the lever in. Of course all the other mods have helped. I can't help thinking that a good part of the problem is ME. Because, it has a great clutch normally. Very smooth, forgiving transition normally. Especially for such a TIGER when she wants to be!!

I'm anxious/curious to see if I have this "surging" problem to/from WFO-6. At least I already have the PCIII. A session on a Dyno and a custom map might be in order.

Still love this bike, and expect to ride her for as long as I'm able to ride! :clapping:

LC

 

[painman]

Wow Ed, thanks for your efforts but I'll be honest on this one, your reply sounds like the guys over where I bought my bike. Sort of a denial thing. Just keep the "R's" up, that's it. Its's just a pigment of your imancipation, I get it now. PM. <><

 

[co425]

Wow Ed, thanks for your efforts but I'll be honest on this one, your reply sounds like the guys over where I bought my bike. Sort of a denial thing. Just keep the "R's" up, that's it. Its's just a pigment of your imancipation, I get it now. PM. <><

This is definitely not a lugging issue. Trying to get up a slight hill at 3500 ft into a gas station should normally not be an issue. When your bike revs and everything sounds normal then you let out the clutch to go up the hill and the bike stutters and coughs then tries to rip you off the back all in a split second something is not right. Same while cruising up in the mountains. Running along at 3000 plus elevation at a normal 3500 rpm and it feels like your bike is loosing steam, you give it more gas and nothing happens so you give it a little more then whamo your taking off like an atlas rocket deep into a 30 mph corner, something is not right. My bike and probably allot of others feels like an old carburated bike that is jetted for sea level running at high altitude except that it will idle just fine. Something is wrong with our machines and its not rider error.

 

[jcolman]

Now you guys are getting me worried. I'm picking up my 06' bike next week and riding it from San Diego to Raleigh, NC. I gotta admit....after reading all the posts in this thread, I'm very tempted to alter my planned route. I want to stop in Santa Fe NM to visit an old friend but Santa Fe sits around 6300 ft elevation if I remember correctly. The last thing I want is to experience a lot of surging issues while on a new bike.

This bike has 6500 miles on it. The dealer told me that the previous owner traded it in for a BMW. I have to wonder if the PO simply got tired of dealing with surging issues. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

 

[HIGHLANDER]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2006, 10,000 miles, Santa Cruz Mountains Ca

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Yes, but only at about 200 below sea level in Death Valley. Felt like gas starvation. No problems at higher elevations.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes, but decending in elevation, not ascending.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

No

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

No

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Haven't contacted the dealer yet.

 

[PMC FJRider]

As of today, my 06 is in the shop again for this problem. I ride daily from 5700-300 (from beautiful mountains to lovely downtown LA, Ca). On my way to work (downhill), my bike surges in the same area daily....1,000ft mark. I am usually at about 4k-4500 rpm. The surging is so strong sometimes, it feels as though I'm going to fly through the windshield.

On the way home, back up the hill, the problem is not stumbling on the freeway, but stalling at every stop sign, and having a hard time riding into my own driveway. I have a gravel drive, that goes uphill. I almost dropped the bike the other night when I was trying to keep the RPM's up, and feathering the clutch. After the 3rd stall, I really cranked the RPM's and let it fly.......just to go 30ft.

I was under the assumption that it was the TPS, and mentioned that to the service person at the dealer. After going through a battery of questions, he felt it had something to do with a sensor that has to do with lean/rich fuel mixture (I know theres a name for it)...and that it is not adjusting for the elevation change.

Received a call from the dealer later in the day, and just as I expected, after all the tests, they could not find anything, so they are going to consult BigMamaYama, to see whats next.....figures.

DK.

 

[tophog]

Have the dealer call and talk to Solv Virgil in Cypress. I talked to him an hour about this problem 2-3 weeks ago and he failed to acknowledge Yamaha had even heard of the problem. Solv is a head honcho somewhere in Yamaha and needs to read this thread. The problem is not going to magically go away. Also call Yamaha customer support @ 1.800.962.7926 and report it as a safety problem. Yamaha needs to FIX this pronto!

As of today, my 06 is in the shop again for this problem. I ride daily from 5700-300 (from beautiful mountains to lovely downtown LA, Ca). On my way to work (downhill), my bike surges in the same area daily....1,000ft mark. I am usually at about 4k-4500 rpm. The surging is so strong sometimes, it feels as though I'm going to fly through the windshield.
On the way home, back up the hill, the problem is not stumbling on the freeway, but stalling at every stop sign, and having a hard time riding into my own driveway. I have a gravel drive, that goes uphill. I almost dropped the bike the other night when I was trying to keep the RPM's up, and feathering the clutch. After the 3rd stall, I really cranked the RPM's and let it fly.......just to go 30ft.

I was under the assumption that it was the TPS, and mentioned that to the service person at the dealer. After going through a battery of questions, he felt it had something to do with a sensor that has to do with lean/rich fuel mixture (I know theres a name for it)...and that it is not adjusting for the elevation change.

Received a call from the dealer later in the day, and just as I expected, after all the tests, they could not find anything, so they are going to consult BigMamaYama, to see whats next.....figures.

DK.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>My name is Ed Sorbo. I’m the service manager at Honda Yamaha of Redlands. ....’07 FJR1300 that has ....a lean surge problem. I called Yamaha Tech for advice and learned about this site. I left the shop with a half tank of gas and took I-10 to the 30, .... The bike ran great until I got to the Running Springs exit, ....the bike surged badly and nearly stalled.... the throttle response was a little abrupt in the just off idle range which requires a smooth hand when opening it after braking, but it was no worse than other stock bikes. This is what I think is happening: All bikes are lean on the bottom so they can pass emission standards, I think this common slight leanness combined with lugging the engine causes this problem. I can make the problem continue by leaving the bike in a high gear and messing with the throttle or I can solve the problem by down shifting and bring the rpm above 3000. ....I’m not sure that altitude really is part of the problem, it may be the type of riding we do up in the hills.

Overview: The bike is so smooth and torquey that it can be ridden in to low a rpm range. At low rpm all engines carburate at their worst, when the high load of chugging along in a high gear is added problems will occur. This problem can be exacerbated by prolonged high speed running just prior to the low rpm running. This exacerbation may be caused by unburned fuel in the intake track left there when the speed dropped quickly. Many bikes run way worse on the bottom than the FJR does, they just do it all the time so people know to keep the rpm up.

Solution: Don’t slow down,.... After filling up pin it and tuck in! If you can’t ride like that all the time, down shift as you slow and keep your rpm above 3000 in 3rd gear and higher.

Follow up: My customer will pick his bike up tomorrow and he will make it surge then see if getting above 3000 fixes it for him. I will report his findings.

My qualifications: half owner of Sportbike Hawaii for 10 years, .... I have won many races, club and national..... owned the race club in Hawaii and a Go Kart track..... made my living as a full time AMA 250 GP racer from ’98 till ’03 ....was Chris Ulrich’s crew chief from ’04 till ’06. ....work for "Roadracing World" as a rider and writer, I have two by lines "Ed Tech" and "Ask Ed." ....service manager at HYR since December of ’06. .... My job is to solve his problem and to keep him happy not to defend Yamaha or anyone else if they have a poor product. I’m troubled by the number of people who expect so little from there dealer and Yamaha and are so quick to criticize. I have found Yamaha to be honest and helpful, I hope my shop is viewed the same.

Ed, this is a joke, right? With all your experience, you're not really intending to blame the customer for the problem, are you?

I'm surprised Cypress told you about this site -- it's been my experience that they deny everything (at least to the general public). I'm glad you experienced the problem; my friend with a stumbling '07 has been unable to get the dealer to experience the problem. And....he too can make it stay away with concerted effort to riding style -- yet, he knows it's there (just under the surface -- if he relaxes his vigilance). He also has a high-mileage Gen I FJR that exhibits none of these driveability issues.

Yes, it begs the question why would someone buy a 145hp bike to ride slow at low rpm (a twist & go scooter may seem more appropriate) -- yet, modern fuel injected engines do seem to accomplish the impossible and 'carburate' smoothly at all speeds (other than GenII FJRs, that is). I'm always impressed at how some high specific power sportbikes will idle nicely and accelerate smoothly despite being ridden so 'out of their element' that way. Bad running is a problem -- and, I maintain it's a problem with the bike. You, OTOH, appear to have the issue solved...... :blink:

Thanks, and please keep us informed of any further findings.

 

[Medium Al]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007 FJR1300A, 400 miles, Boulder, CO

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Yes. Seems to happen most often at slow speeds, low rpms, off throttle to roll-on, and up hill (increasing load). Sometimes takes several beats and much throttle opening for the engine to catch at all after backing off, as if it has stalled, then suddenly lurches forward. On wet pavement or sand this would be extremely dangerous. Seems to happen above 7000 ft or so, and worsens as altitude increases, though some sign of it was present at 5000. Downhill it's not as noticeable. It is like the ECU can't read or resolve a low MAP or MAF signal well, or there is a big dead spot between table values. It will stall and I'll keep opening the throttle and nothing happens, open it more and more and then wham! There is hysteresis also in that a certain rpm and load will be fine with a given throttle position, and then you'll need to back off just slightly to enter a turn, say, and then returning the throttle to the same position exiting the turn the engine stalls or does nothing, and need 3 times the previous throttle position to move at all and then that's too much and it lurches. I am still in break in period but it seems worse under 3000 rpms at very light loads.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

Yes. The problem seems altitude-related, though it could actually be delta altitude related. For my bike approx 7000 is where it starts to get real bad, but that was after riding up from 5000.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

I accidentally stopped for some scenery, when I started back up again I noticed the problem went away. It came back after I had gone through some more elevation changes. Each time I stopped, it got better then came back. This was on a ride from Boulder (approx 5000 ft.) to Trailridge Road is Rocky Mountain National Park (approx 12000 ft) and back.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

No. I did install a PCIII and disconnect the O2 sensor and that seems to have fixed a lot of it though I have not had it at higher elevations yet. I thought this surging was the throttle issue, so I bought the PCIII and the G2. Have not installed the G2 yet. I will run up to RMNP tomorrow and report back as to how PCIII handles 12000 feet on the same loop I took earlier. I am also going to take it in for the initial 600 mile service after that and will bring it up with the dealer.

PS: Ed, you have no idea what we're talking about. This is pretty bad and Yamaha screwed something up here. It is certainly not what I expect in a 14K MSRP bike. I wouldn't be surprised to see a recall or even lawsuits if someone goes down because of this. Like I said, in rain or slick pavement, look out.

By the way I also have a 06 Roadliner and it had a real twitchy throttle, similar in character though nowhere near this bad. Originally I just assumed it was the way a 1900 cc V-twin ran. Wrong. Put a PCIII in it and completely got rid of that problem and the bike runs much better now. Smoother and vastly more responsive, more power. Huge difference. A lot of magazines have been giving recent Yamaha FI systems poor reviews, the FJR may be the worst of the bunch.

 

[CALSI]

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Can't believe it happened to me today. At 3,000 feet it started at 4,000 feet got worst. Downshifting did help. Getting the RPMS didn't help. Hit the throttle and there is nothing for a second or two and then it kick in but surge. It felt like I was running out of fuel.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes. Was already going to lower elevation when I pulled over turned off the engine and restarted.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

Below 3000

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

Was already at a lower elevation

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Hit 600 miles going to dealer in the AM

 

[Farkles]

Contacted my dealer last weekend he took down some info and said he would get back to me. I told him he could ride it up to elevation and experence it him self if need be.

I also told him someone is going to be hurt over this.

 

[painman]

Just a thought, but maybe in the questions tophog put up, one question should have been, "how many times or how often does the stall/stubbling occur?" My 06 has only had this issue one time at about 3500ft. elevation on hwy. 36 last year. Seems to me the 07's are experiencing this problem more often than the 06's. Hopefully this issue will be solved soon as Farkels said, before someone is injured or worse. PM. <>< :angry:

 

[tophog]

.

 

[dgerharter]

Well after a few weeks of seeing various posts related to altitude related surging problems I thought it would be best to post a single thread to collect information from anyone who has experienced surging related problems on a 2006 or 2007. While I think most of the reports are from 2007 owners I won't exclude 2006.
Please understand the surging issue is strictly related to altitude. The purpose of this thread is STRICTLY to track/report people who have altitude related surging issues and nothing to do with rough/abrust throttle, jerkiness, etc. It would be helpful if all 2007 owners posted regardless if you have experienced this problem.

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: Many owners of 2007 FJR's have experienced mild to severe surging issues when riding their bikes thru altitude changes. The bike feels sluggish and acts as though it's running out of gas for anywhere from 1-4 seconds. Once the surging begins it usually continues until the bike is ridden to lower altitudes (approx. < 1000') or the bike is shut off/on. Some have reported that stopping and turning the bike off/on resets the ECM or at least appears to fix the problem. Some have claimed turning bike off/on only temporarily fixes the surging problem for a few minutes until bike see's sub-1000' altitudes.

Yet many 2007 owners have indicated they have not experienced the surging issue at all. Perhaps this is directly related to the problem only occurs when a bike is ridden thru and altitude change vice a person that lives @ 2500' that typically rides at/around 2500' without riding various altitudes.

On some bikes the surging is so bad it impacts safety as the bike will loose all power for 1-3 seconds at a time which has occurred in the middle of corners, etc. I have personally contacted Yamaha on this problem and yet they claim it's the first they have heard about it!? Yeah, right. My bike also surges ...badly and did on the very first trip I made with it with a whopping 300 miles on the bike. Over the course of a 4 day trip (1577 miles) I quit counting after 30+ times it acted up...to the point where it nearly spoiled the trip. TBS sync doesn't appear to have any impact on the problem.

Perhaps Yamaha or dealers will read this thread and realize the problem actually exists and it's time to fix it before someone gets killed.

Mods, can we make it a sticky?

EVERYONE needs to report this problem to their dealer and call Yamaha customer service (1.800.962.7926) and report it as a safety problem.

Here's my experience: This past weekend (June 8, 9 & 10) I went on a weekend trip from Burbank, CA to Sequoia National Park - a trip I've made several years on different bikes. This year, I noticed the first sign of trouble as I was at the top of the Tejon Pass (altitude 4500') - what can be described as surging. Nothing on the way up, mind you - only some surging at freeway speeds. I chalked it up to possibly some bad gas, or operator error (that throttle spring is way too tight).

On Saturday, The whole group left Bakersfield, CA and began our way up to the 6000' north entrance to the park. We took a very twisty road (CA 245 - try it, you'll like it) that goes through many elevation changes. My group consisted of 3 Goldwings (1800s), a Roadliner, a BMW R1150RT, a rented Harley (Heritage Softail, I believe) and my '07 FJR1300A. All but 2 bikes were being ridden 2-up, me included. Not exactly speed demons, but we like to scoot pretty good. What I experienced was that the tighter the twisties got (requiring more throttle adjustments and shifting), the worse this fuel delivery problem got. I finally got to the point where I was riding ONLY in first gear, and even then was having to feather the clutch to keep pulling at least 4500 RPMs, or else I'd get up to a 4 second lag between opening the throttle and getting any fuel delivered.

It got so bad I almost lost my wife off the back a couple of times! Good thing she's a pretty experienced passenger, and was in tune with what was happening. Sunday, we rode from 6500' down to 2500' on CA 180, from Grant Grove to the end of the highway, along the Kings River (another great road!). I was leading, and took the downhill ride at a moderately aggressive pace without incident. Coming back up I rode much more sedately, and experienced the same fuel delivery problem, but this time to a much lesser degree.

Some have suggested that this is operator error- the bike is designed for power at higher RPMs, so we should change our riding style. That is definitely NOT the case with my bike. I've been riding for 30 years, and know when to downshift. I'm not the most agressive rider in the world, but I am by far the fastest in my regular group. And by my experience, what reduced the problem was actually being LESS aggressive. And by Yamaha's recommended shift points (see page 5-3 of your owner's manual), you should be able to ride this bike comfortably between 1500-3500 RPMs - you shouldn't have to try to keep it above 4000 to get the requisite power.

When I got back last night, I was going to post my experience - that's when I found this thread.

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live? 2007, 1463 Miles, Burbank, CA

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs? YES! I wouldn't call it "surging" so much as a nearly complete loss of of fuel delivery (worst case) to simply "stumbling" (best case). It seems that the more aggressive the riding (swings in RPMs), the worse the behavior becomes. Seems to happen at any altitude above 1500'.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off? YES! It was so bad last Saturday that I nearly lost my wife off the back of the bike a couple of times. This issue, coupled with the fact that a top box (read: back rest) from Yamaha is not currently available may end up costing someone dearly.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation? YES! Last Friday (6/8/07) at about 4500' I experienced the first signs that something was amiss. At freeway speeds (75-80 MPH indicated) I experienced what I would call episodes of periodic reduction in fuel delivery, to the point that I was having to make constant adjustments to throttle position to try and maintain speed. I descended back down to the 300-400' elevation range shortly thereafter (within 1/2 hour) and did not have any further problems while at the lower altitude.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem? Yes. Shutting the bike off for a few minutes seems to temporarily fix the problem.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem? I will be contacting my local dealer AND Yamaha USA about this issue. I work only minutes from Cypress, CA and would be more than happy to take a Yamaha representative on the EXACT ride I took last weekend to replicate the problem.

 

[Medium Al]

OK, just returned from a loop from Boulder (5000 ft.) over Trailridge Road (12000 ft.) down to Grand Lake, Winter Park, up over Berthoud Pass, then down to I-70 and back to Boulder. As I said in my earlier post I put a PCIII in after my last experience, and this trip was going to test the hypothesis that the PCIII will eliminate this surging problem.

It does not. It does mitigate it, makes it much less of a sharp transition, but it is still there. It seemed to start in mildly at about 6500-7000 ft. I stopped at 7500-8000 feet approx 10 miles later. When I started up again, the problem was gone. Then it came back as I went into the park and climbed in altitude, same thing, worse at low speed low rpm low load situations (think tight uphill hairpins), where off-throttle and back on took several seconds to catch.

I stopped again at about 12000 ft, and when I restarted it was gone. Downhill from there on for quite a ways and did not notice it again until I stopped in Fraser, and then climbed up Berthoud Pass. It was very mild here but it started raining and coming out of corners was exciting. Made it home fine without any surging between Idaho Springs and Boulder.

So in summary, PCIII mitigates the problem I'd say 50%. It is still there, clearly DELTA altitude related (moving from lower to higher altitude). It may be that some ambient pressure is read once at start up and when you change alt. enough, that value is no longer valid, causing a much too lean condition at part throttle (high vacuum). Stopping and starting again clears the previous value and resumes normal operation.

I was going to take this bike on a long tour soon (this week), but I think I'll wait until this issue is resolved. The problem is still bad enough that in traffic, in rain or slick conditions, things could get hairy fast. The worst time I had today was in the rain, coming out of hairpin corners. Solution is simply to coast trhorugh the corner until the bike is not leaned and then slowly crank open the htrottle til it catches. I never lost traction doing this but without the PCIII mod who knows. Last time the worst was sitting in line behind lots of slow tourists, slowing down to look at elk. Very iffy felt as if rear ending someone was a possibilty. This is a very unpleasant thing to deal with, as if someone is just guessing randomly at which point the throttle will open and at what mixture. I am all for spontanaeity but not in my ECU.

The PCIII does make the thing run much better under conditions of no elevation change. I probably will not install the G2, the throttle is now fine as is (except for the surging).

Next stop is the dealer.

 

[TruWrecks]

Just another thought on this. It has to be altitude-change related, not just altitude related. It seems that most people have had the poor response while changing altitude more than 2,000ft in a short time. I had my 07 do it again this weekend when the barometric pressure dropped suddenly. After I turned the bike off it improved.

Living in western Washington we get to see all kinds of funky weather changed because of barometric pressure changes. I rode the FJR through a thunder storm a two weekends ag0. I didn't change elevation any more than 1,500 ft. With the pressure changes the surging reared it's ugly head twice.

The FJR is going to the dealers tomorrow afternoon. This is BS for a 14k bike!

 

[tophog]

It's already been proven that the PCIII does not fix the problem ...nor does increasing CO levels which many dealers have tried. If it was purely a mapping problem the PCIII would fix it. Everything is leaning toward a sensor input ...or lack there of while making altitude changes. Until enough people complain and bring light to this thread, etc. dealers are simply going to tackle it like any other problem. The problem is dealers cannot induce altitude changes so your likelihood of having it fixed @ a dealer is not very good. I'm afraid until mother Yamaha gets their **** together and finds the problem and FIX we are all screwed.