2016 Steering Problems

[ShoopCE]

Hi,

My 2016 FJR1300A has started to have very vague steering. It has 39,000 miles. I am the second owner and have had it since 32k, a bit over a year ago. The bike handled fine at first but has gotten progressively worse. What I mean by vague is that when travelling straight, it will veer slightly left then right every other second or so without any input. It settles down fairly well in corners - thankfully.

Shortly after I bought it I noticed the steering head was clunking. That clunk returned right after tightening so I replaced the bearings with tapered. The bike was NOT squirming before or after that. After my first tire change the squirming started and has gotten worse. The source seems to be at the rear wheel. I checked the bearings again and swingarm by tugging but they seem to be tight. I changed the new tire, a Dunlop RS3 to a Micheline PR 4 GT thinking the bike might need the heavier sidewall. It seemed better, but the issue keeps getting worse.

Another issue is that I suspect the rear shock is blown. The bike started wallowing badly in curves if there is any ripple. I bought a new shock, Penske, and will be replacing that as soon as the bike comes back from the shop for the 2nd gear recall. I plan to check the bearings on the relay arm. 

The previous owner put 32 k miles on this bike in about a year and a half. He changed oil and tires regularly, but seems to have not done any other maintenance. (Having the shop do the valve check while they're in there for the gear recall.) So I suspect that the swingarm and relay arm bearings have not been lubed. Prob nothing for the wheel bearings either. 

Again, the swingarm and wheel bearings, front and rear, seem to be tight.  But should I try replacing them while I'm replacing the shock?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Chris Shoop

 

[Fred W]

Your description of the wandering sounds like what happens when there is too much friction in the steering stem bearing.  You can check by putting the bike on the centerstand and then jacking the front off the ground or having a helper lift the front by sitting on the back seat.  Turn the bars back and forth to feel how much resistance there is to turning.  It should turn very easily.  If it turns easily then it would have to be caused by something else.

You can use less bearing preload (the smaller 2nd torque number.  First one is to seat the bearing) with the tapered bearings than the stock ball bearings.

 

[Bounce]

The process of tightening, loosening, and then tightening to final tq spec is detailed in the table at the bottom of this page.

https://www.fjr-tips.org/maint/shb/shb.html

 

[RossKean]

The process of tightening, loosening, and then tightening to final tq spec is detailed in the table at the bottom of this page.

https://www.fjr-tips.org/maint/shb/shb.html

The OP mentioned that he had changed to the tapered bearings.  IIRC, the tapered bearings use different torque values??

 

[rbentnail]

The OP mentioned that he had changed to the tapered bearings.  IIRC, the tapered bearings use different torque values??

I prefer mine about 20% higher with tapered bearings.  I thought the same as you- maybe too tight on the steering.

 

[ShoopCE]

Thanks for the input. I will certainly recheck the torque setting when I get the bike back.

Last summer I was feeling a clunk again so I tightened up the steering head without checking the torque. The torque wrench was all the way over on the other side of the garage, and I didn't remember the settings. My bad. But the clunk went away. IIRC the initial and second settings were supposed to be a bit tighter for the tapered bearings compared to the stock ones - but they weren't the same. I have asked AllBalls to remind me of the instructions or to resend a file with the instructions. 

I am not questioning your wisdom, but why would this setting cause the bike to wander? I've carefully tried putting zero input into the bars. Is it that they normally move a bit due to input from the road and then you get an over-correction if the steering head is too tight?

It really wasn't the tires. My FZ6 uses the same sizes so I'm running the Dunlops on that bike and they're handling just fine. 

 

[mcatrophy]

but why would this setting cause the bike to wander?

When you ride a motorcycle (or a pedal bike) you are making unconscious steering inputs all the while. If the steering isn't free to move, the bike will move more off line before you overcome the stiction of the steering (whether consciously or not), inevitably this will lead to overcorrection and so wandering.

While I don't necessarily believe this is your problem, it could lead to this sort of behaviour. 

 

[PJ4863]

I struggled with my steering when I went from stock to tapered as well. I actually found more is worse with the tapered. I keep mine now at the stock torque settings, and its a pretty darn low number. I'm thinking about going a pound or two less when I take the steering head apart again. 

When it was too tight, oh man, it was a bear to ride. Didn't turn in well, maintaining a straight line was even more difficult.  My first thought would be take the triple tree apart, torque to factory settings and then see how it feels. Still wandering, go looser.


Edit to above: Also, mess with one thing at a time, otherwise you'll never find out the root cause, especially with the suspension.  Intech has a tech day every April, get the bike there and then you have have 20 different opinions on what's need to fix.  Fix one thing, ride, repeat, until it feels like its on rails. You've got a 16, and not a lot of miles on it.  You shouldn't be having any of these issues. 

 

[ShoopCE]

Too much torque! Not often that you hear that.

OK, so I got the bike back but had to leave it sit for a bit thanks to weather, and my granddaughters visiting, sweet.

Saturday I tackled the steering bearings. Not sure how much torque I had it at but it was very tight. So I loosened it up and set it to 11 ft-lb. Buttoned her up and took her for a ride and she's back on rails! 

Thank you everybody, especially @mcatrophy for the explanation. I was really getting worried that I was never going to like riding this bike again. This setting, if too tight, makes a HUGE difference.

Chris Shoop

 

[art miller]

Unrelated to the head bearing torque but wheel bearings were mentioned. I have had three FJR's and never had wheel bearings repacked. My current 2014 has 51K miles and thee is no noticeable wheel bearing issues. Is it normal for FJR wheel bearings to need servicing?? 

 

[Ignacio]

 Is it normal for FJR wheel bearings to need servicing?? 

Wheel bearings are not serviceable. They are sealed.

Replaced?  Occasionally. I've had to do two rear bearings on a combined 300k FJR miles become gritty and notchy when inspecting at tire change time.   (To the OP's question, I wouldn't change a bearing unless its confirmed its going bad).  I found new bearings at my local bearing store, took the rim to a machine shop to have the old removed, and new pressed in.  Wasn't that expensive, but kind a of a pain if you don't have spare rims like I do and all the running around to different shops.

 

[Fred W]

Worth mentioning that the most available motorcycle wheel bearings are the “All Balls” brand, but there have been reports of poor longevity with those.  So you would be better off sourcing from a bearing shop as Ignacio did, or just ordering the OEMs as they do hold up very well.  My old ‘05 still has the originals on it in good shape.

 

[FJR Flyer]

The bars should freely drop to one side or another if nudged (more or less, the cables and hose can make it difficult to tell sometimes).  I made the mistake on my FJ1200 of too much torque after replacing the tapered bearding and it was almost unrideable.

 

[RossKean]

As said above, bearings are pretty good and not serviceable.  I replaced the front on my 2007 at around 150,000 miles and, like Ignacio, I discovered it felt notchy when I was changing tires. Seems to me the shop (dealership) didn't have any in stock so got them from a local bearing shop.  Don't know what brand (Timkin maybe) but, as Fred mentioned, I would try to stay away from All Balls because of some history of poor quality.  That was years ago but... 

The rear was original when I sold it at 185,000 miles.