3rd Gen ES Suspension Problems Poll

[Uncle Hud]

51,000 on my 15 ES. No problems, but I find myself riding in two-up or even two-up/luggage 'HARD' to get the stiffness I like in city riding.

Will chat with the shop crew about applying a little more preload next time it's in the shop. (Can that be done?) For general principles, when alone, I'd like to be riding stiffly in one-up or one-up/luggage.

 

[Fred W]

Adding preload on the spring will not make your shock stiffer. It will just raise the rear end higher.

Adding preload electronically on the ES does make the suspension feel stiffer because the range for the available damping adjustment increases when you increment the preload settings.

 

[K_Flyer]

Only have 11 k miles on my 2015 that I bought 11 months ago. If I'd had any problems by now I'd be complaining long and loud! I will say it definitely works better than the ESA on my '07 K1200GT.

Fred's graphic above is excellent! Really makes it clear. BTW, what does Yamaha consider for the nominal rider, luggage and pillion weights? I'd guess at 225 lb I'm heavier that the "normal" rider.

 

[Uncle Hud]

FredW's graphic is indeed great, but there are no numbers ....... so it's 'diagrammatic'.

No dig against you, FredW, or the folks that put together the graphic, but it reminds me of TV commercials where a fire truck puts out your heartburn. Gets the concept across, but doesn't divulge the actual process that eases your heartburn.

For example, the graphic implies that you can achieve the exact same damping characteristics with these different settings:

1-up; HARD, +3

1-up + Luggage; HARD, 0

2-up; STD, +1

2-up + Luggage, STD, -1

Now, I'm not sure those different settings provide the exact same suspension damping characteristics, or even similar suspension damping characteristics, but I understand the concept that it's trying to explain.

<edit> I have seen (though not measured) the rear end rise when shifting from 1-up to 2-up + Luggage. So I get that concept, too. Maybe I should stop riding in 2-up + Luggage, Hard, 0, and switch to 2-up, Hard, +3 ..... ? The suspension should provide the same stiffness with either setting, yes?

 

[Allen_C]

FredW's graphic is indeed great, but there are no numbers ....... so it's 'diagrammatic'.
No dig against you, FredW, or the folks that put together the graphic, but it reminds me of TV commercials where a fire truck puts out your heartburn. Gets the concept across, but doesn't divulge the actual process that eases your heartburn.

For example, the graphic implies that you can achieve the exact same damping characteristics with these different settings:

1-up; HARD, +3

1-up + Luggage; HARD, 0

2-up; STD, +1

2-up + Luggage, STD, -1

Now, I'm not sure those different settings provide the exact same suspension damping characteristics, or even similar suspension damping characteristics, but I understand the concept that it's trying to explain.

<edit> I have seen (though not measured) the rear end rise when shifting from 1-up to 2-up + Luggage. So I get that concept, too.

Maybe I should stop riding in 2-up + Luggage, Hard, 0, and switch to 2-up, Hard, +3 ..... ?

2-up + Luggage, Hard +3 lifts the rear to provide more ground clearance (since the ES has the least clearance of any FJR) and keeps the bike sticking well when leaning her over in tight curves.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Yes, Allen_C, you first explained that to me at Hooterville, and that's where I saw the rear end rise. I can feel it, too, as my legs extend an extra 1/2-inch or so.

I really can't have a soft suspension; most of my riding is done on city streets with potholes, patched asphalt, and sharp turns. My current settings are 2-up + Luggage, HARD, 0. Will I get the same stiff ride at 2-up, HARD, +3? The graphic implies that I will.

 

[Fred W]

Yes, I agree. It is a conceptual drawing, not a literal chart. But it does get the idea across that the damping is shifted between the 4 shock preload settings. However, I have an inkling that the shift between steps is not as uniform as is depicted. FWIW I got this chart from someone at Yamaha.

The shock preload certainly is not uniform. When you adjust the preload from 1-up to 1+ bags the preload adjust motor runs a relatively short time and you feel the tail raise (because that is exactly what a preload adjustment does). Then when you make the one step up from 1+ to 2-up no bags the preload motor runs for a considerably longer time and the tail is raised considerably more than the first step. And the last step to 2+ bags is about the same as the first step to 1+bags, which makes sense from an increased load standpoint.

Allen, you just posted that you think the ES sits the lowest of any FJRs. I'm curious where you got that info from. Main reason I question it is the bike seems to sit higher than my old 1st Gen so that putting it on the center stand is much easier.

A couple of points of clarification: Going from one preload to another will add actual spring preload, which only raises the ride height. If you use the same amount of damping it will feel just as stiff regardless of the ride height. Conversely, changing only the damping, for example going from 2+bags Hard 0 to 2+bags Hard+3 will make the suspension feel stiffer but will not increase the ride height.

Hud, I do not understand why you would want to stiffen the suspension when you are riding on crappy road surfaces. I'm sure we have you outnumbered in crappy roads up north in the frost heave heaven, and I generally go with softer damping for those conditions. I like the stiffer settings more when on nice smooth southern roads.

 

[Allen_C]

Fred, everything I've read that lists ground clearance states the ES had 4.9 in and all other fjr's are 5.3.

 

[Fred W]

Ahh, I see, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Ground clearance would be measured to the lowest thing hanging down under the bike. Guess what that is?

The relay arm.

And yes, that part is a different bend shape from the A models so it must hang down lower.

I don't think the bike frame actually sits any lower than the prior models, just the bottom of the ES shock sticks down further.

 

[Allen_C]

I believe my side stand also sits down lower with my Two Bros exhaust. I agree the seat feels a bit higher than my '08AE, but that might be due to the suspension being worn down.

 

[Fred W]

Well, these are things that can actually be measured and compared objectively. Plus the ES preload steps in ride height could easily be determined and measured since whatever the step is with one load would be equal with another load. The only thing that cannot be measured objectively is the amount of damping as that is a dynamic element.

I fear we are drifting a bit off of the initial subject which was what is the reliability and maintenance needs and expenses of the ES suspension. Maybe we should move these other things off to a separate thread to be fully explored?

 

[Uncle Hud]

Fred W posted: <snip, snip> Hud, I do not understand why you would want to stiffen the suspension when you are riding on crappy road surfaces. I'm sure we have you outnumbered in crappy roads up north in the frost heave heaven, and I generally go with softer damping for those conditions. I like the stiffer settings more when on nice smooth southern roads.

FredW, the snipped-out part of your post was valuable, thanks, but your question deserves a response. (And, without a doubt, New England has some of the shittiest roads I've ever ridden.)

With a soft suspension, the bike rolls over bumps like a Buick Roadmaster. Comfy, yes, but not really helpful if you're turning from Northside Drive onto Collier Road at 45 mph. I want my tires in contact with the pavement, and I don't want spring action affecting my lean angles and turn-in geometry.

I use softer setting for long miles on Interstates or divided highways. The "Roadmaster glide" is very welcome on those roads!

 

[Fred W]

With a soft suspension, the bike rolls over bumps like a Buick Roadmaster. Comfy, yes, but not really helpful if you're turning from Northside Drive onto Collier Road at 45 mph. I want my tires in contact with the pavement, and I don't want spring action affecting my lean angles and turn-in geometry.

Well,when you have dialed up excessive damping and hit a sharp bump the suspension will not be able to adequately follow the road undulation quickly enough, so that is when your tires will lose contact with the road. One of the scariest circumstances when riding is when you're going fast in a rough corner with too much damping and the tires skitter across the surface because they do not maintain constant contact. Adding damping only makes that worse. You can actually ride faster with less damping and more compliance when it is really rough, especially when cornering.

But again, we are sliding away from the original intent of the thread, and should probably take these discussions elsewhere.

Back on topic: Who has had a problem with their ES suspension. I see someone said they did in the poll. Or was that mcatrophy's little snafu while having other YCC-S errors?

 

[mcatrophy]

... Who has had a problem with their ES suspension. I see someone said they did in the poll. Or was that mcatrophy's little snafu while having other YCC-S errors?

Guilty as charged (see here).

 

[Fred W]

No problem. Just didn't see any other problems.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Rode in today using one-up, no luggage, STD (Sexually Transmitted Disease?

)

Felt a little spongy, as expected, but not bad. Slow on the the turns with rough pavement. Not bad. Will keep the suspension here for a few days. See how it feels. Maybe I can speed up the rough-pavement turns after a few days of acclimation to the Roadmaster ride.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Hey, I can't see the results. Then again I don't have an ES. Just curious what the outcome of the pole is so far. I will refrain from voting so as not to skew the pole data.

Dave

 

[Allen_C]

Hey, I can't see the results. Then again I don't have an ES. Just curious what the outcome of the pole is so far. I will refrain from voting so as not to skew the pole data.
Dave

The forum knows you don't have and ES so you can't see the results!

Actually, usually there is a button at the bottom of the poll labeled "See Results" or something like that

 

[MartyO]

I bought my 2014 in January 2014. I now have 66k on it and it feels great. Thought I would just find my setting and leave it but I use soft on my long freeway commute everyday. Whip it up to hard and blast my favorite corners.

I have had one problem. Was adjusting the spring rate to 2-up and it didn't make it and brought up a suspension problem light. I turned the bike off then restarted and it went right to 2-up and the light went off. I cycle thought the spring settings occasionally since it usually just stays on 1-up with bags. This happened in my first year and has never happened again.

When riding twisty roads the bike performs well and inspires more confidence than my stock 2006. The difference I feel is on one of my favorite corners I kept working until I hit it at 50 mph on my 2006. On my ES on hard, I hit it at 60 mph and it feels great. Also the ES feels solid and planted on bumpy corners and my 2006 could feel wiggly.

Red is the new blue. Stay safe my friends.

 

[Lowcountry Joe]

Fred...instead of a problem poll, maybe it would have been better to call it a satisfaction poll. Other than the very rare and almost non-existent problem of a leaking shock, it's been pretty bullet-proof.