A new world record !!

[OrangevaleFJR]

I guess I don't feel so lame about getting the drz so that it's easier for me to get to alpine lakes without having to backpack (time saver essentially) so that I can get my fishing in whithout blowing an entire weekend.

 

[rogdeb]

From www.kpq.com Bold font by me.

Simply disgusting. I'd like to strap some antlers on the two game dealers and the hunters, feed them a bit of chocolate so they have some energy to run with, bring them up to my ranch then start firing on them. I bet at least they'd run. 'Hell, you can run, but then you'll just be tired when I shoot you". This whole story just reeks of how poorly humans can behave. And we're the smart ones? I better quit now before I get really pissed off.[/font]

+ 1

 

[Mike-H]

+1 on dcarvers post.....

 

[user 213]

A couple of things about this kind of hunting activity. These huge beasts on private land are simply another type of livestock. They are rasied for a cash crop, and harvested when the owner sees fit. It's no one's "pet", don't be fooled by the newsies. Any Farmer or Rancher will tell you stories about "Betsy" or "Bruno", etc. that is marked on meat in the freezer because one of the kids raised it. It's still FOOD. If you think meat comes from the market, you are mistaken. Animals all over the world are raised for food purposes, (and other commercial interests!), from chickens in the yard to commercial industries. Just because it's a little closer to 'wild' than a beef steer, doesn't make it an atrocity.

Sure, these hunts aren't about food. And no, I don't really understand what the 'hunter' gets out of a hunt that's as controlled as some of these sound, but I wasn't there either. It's money in the bank for people though and that's always hard to turn down.

Locally I can easily ride out to two elk herds. One is on a refuge, the other is a ranch were they are raised for commercial meat sale. On the refuge, they have to feed the elk in the winter because they are not allowed to naturally migrate. On the ranch, they are fed all year for a better quality of meat. In both of these places you'd probably be shot, then prosecuted for attempting to 'hunt' one of the elk.

On the ranch, the owner culls the herd for profit as he sees fit. On the refuge, occasionally the managers have to cull the herd due to overpopulation or desease, because nature is not capable of doing so on the refuge in the manner in which the reserve management sees best fit, (or simply to protect the herd).

Which of these is a better management style?

Man adapts his environment to his needs. Nature can't manage the elk/deer populations "as intended" because we killed off the predetors in many cases. Hunting isn't the only answer, but it's part of it.

If it's not your cuppa, fine, but ease up a tad. Some of you make it sound like hunting is evil. Sort of like the anti-motorcycle crowd.

 

[HIGHLANDER]

From www.kpq.com Bold font by me.
"Yesterday, however, it emerged that Baron Gemmingen-Hornberg's trophy was no roaring wild stag of the Bulgarian beech forests but rather a tame, chocolate-loving red deer raised in an Austrian game reserve. The animal had been deliberately fed calcium tablets to enhance the growth of its antlers.

'The stag's name was Burlei, he was completely tame and children liked to feed him chocolate,' the animal's former owner, Rudolf Pöttinger, told Spiegel television.

The series of events that led the Baron to be duped started in the summer of last year. Mr Pöttinger, the owner of a 53-acre game reserve in southern Austria, received an offer of €20,000 (£13,500) for Burlei and promptly sold the animal to two game dealers.

Within a month the stag was roaming hunting estate forests run by a Bulgarian organisation called Elen Hunting, which has its headquarters near the town of Etropole. Anxious to find a wealthy marksman with a yen for huge stags, the company began to spread news of Burlei's whereabouts.

The Baron heard of the stag from a Serbian wildlife documentary film-maker and, after paying a total of €65,000 for the privilege, he flew to Sofia in late August last year with his gun and a team of cameramen.

Accompanied by a game keeper and two film-makers, the Baron caught up with Burlei as the animal was grazing in a clearing. Undaunted by the fact that the supposedly wild stag failed to run away as the team approached, he raised his rifle and shot it dead."

Simply disgusting. I'd like to strap some antlers on the two game dealers and the hunters, feed them a bit of chocolate so they have some energy to run with, bring them up to my ranch then start firing on them. I bet at least they'd run. 'Hell, you can run, but then you'll just be tired when I shoot you". This whole story just reeks of how poorly humans can behave. And we're the smart ones? I better quit now before I get really pissed off.

Why did you not print the rest of the story on how the hunter was scammed ????? :blink:

"In the months that followed, the Baron was pictured in hunting magazines worldwide with his trophy of antlers. 'I had never seen anything so magnificent and, of course, I never remotely dreamed that I would have the chance of bagging such a stag,' he was quoted as saying.

His triumph was shattered after photographs of Burlei grazing in his former home appeared on the internet. An Austrian police investigation established that the animal was indeed the tame red deer and that it had been fed calcium to enhance the growth of its antlers.

Baron Gemmingen-Hornberg's attempts to sue the culprits for fraud proved fruitless as police were unable to identify the Bulgarian middle men who supplied the hunting estate with the stag. The Baron, who insists that he wishes to forget the affair, was not available for comment yesterday. His world hunting record has been annulled.

Spiegel television said he had instructed his domestic staff to put Burlei's antlers in the cellar of his country house."

 

[04FJR4ME]

+1 on dcarvers post.....

 

[dcarver]

Why did you not print the rest of the story on how the hunter was scammed ????? :blink:

My bad. Thought I had the entire article copied before I pasted. Not intentional to not include the entire article. I sure feel bad for that poor old baron, losing his money and all. :cowboy: Not sure exactly what pissed me off about this article.. I don't object to hunting for food, even for an already full freezer, fully recognize that hunting is a method to maintain correct animal inventory for the environment they rely upon, and don't object to raising animals specifically for harvest. Hell, I have two steers that are soon to have the only bad day of their life. But something, something about this article just stinks. I'll think about it then maybe post up later when some time has passed by.

 

[Groo]

But something, something about this article just stinks. I'll think about it then maybe post up later when some time has passed by.

Maybe the fact that hunting usually involves some amount of challenge, whereas this was like shooting an animal in a petting zoo (granted an impressive one, but so is that Texas Longhorn in the field across the street, and I'm not too geeked about putting a scope on him anytime soon).

 

[Toecutter]

Okay, I'm confuse-ed. DCarver posted a story about some other hunter and a Red Deer in a foreign country that was a scam, and Highlander posted a picture and a story about an Elk that was taken with archery equipment in the PNW of USA.

Two different animals, right? I think some people are tying the Elk picture to the Red Deer story. Or is DCarver's story about the animal in Highlander's picture?

I couldn't find the news radio story in the link provided.

 

[HIGHLANDER]

Okay, I'm confuse-ed. DCarver posted a story about some other hunter and a Red Deer in a foreign country that was a scam, and Highlander posted a picture and a story about an Elk that was taken with archery equipment in the PNW of USA.
Two different animals, right? I think some people are tying the Elk picture to the Red Deer story. Or is DCarver's story about the animal in Highlander's picture?

I couldn't find the news radio story in the link provided.

www.kpq.com

If you click on the Sports tab, then there are some pics and an article named " The Real Story ". I'm not convinced they are the same animal, one picture looks just too fake, and it's also hard to compare the rack.

 

[Toecutter]

Well, he sure was cute as a pet deer. I wonder how he got from being triggered overseas to taken with a bow in Montana?

One thing for sure, every animal I ever harvested was photographed with the weapon I used to take it. One of my best: A Coyote at 175 yards with a 6" barreled .357 with iron sights. I held over it about eight feet and lobbed one in. I have an eyeball witness. His brother last season took the Elk pictured below:

Anybody remember a guy by the name of Kirt Darner? He used to buy (or poach) giant Muley racks, then make up stories about what a great and successful big buck hunter he was. What's up with some people?

Some of his antics

An interesting story about him

 

[motorgod]

That is why I only hunt zoo kept animals......I know what I'm paying for! :clapping:

 

[Dwavey]

A couple of things about this kind of hunting activity. These huge beasts on private land are simply another type of livestock. They are rasied for a cash crop, and harvested when the owner sees fit. It's no one's "pet", don't be fooled by the newsies. Any Farmer or Rancher will tell you stories about "Betsy" or "Bruno", etc. that is marked on meat in the freezer because one of the kids raised it. It's still FOOD. If you think meat comes from the market, you are mistaken. Animals all over the world are raised for food purposes, (and other commercial interests!), from chickens in the yard to commercial industries. Just because it's a little closer to 'wild' than a beef steer, doesn't make it an atrocity.
Sure, these hunts aren't about food. And no, I don't really understand what the 'hunter' gets out of a hunt that's as controlled as some of these sound, but I wasn't there either. It's money in the bank for people though and that's always hard to turn down.

Locally I can easily ride out to two elk herds. One is on a refuge, the other is a ranch were they are raised for commercial meat sale. On the refuge, they have to feed the elk in the winter because they are not allowed to naturally migrate. On the ranch, they are fed all year for a better quality of meat. In both of these places you'd probably be shot, then prosecuted for attempting to 'hunt' one of the elk.

On the ranch, the owner culls the herd for profit as he sees fit. On the refuge, occasionally the managers have to cull the herd due to overpopulation or desease, because nature is not capable of doing so on the refuge in the manner in which the reserve management sees best fit, (or simply to protect the herd).

Which of these is a better management style?

Man adapts his environment to his needs. Nature can't manage the elk/deer populations "as intended" because we killed off the predetors in many cases. Hunting isn't the only answer, but it's part of it.

If it's not your cuppa, fine, but ease up a tad. Some of you make it sound like hunting is evil. Sort of like the anti-motorcycle crowd.

I don't have a great hate-on against hunting, although I'm not crazy about it and sometimes I can be heard saying that if the hunters have guns then the animals should get them too just to make things even.

I think it's the notion of "hunting" a captive domestic-raised tame animal for the sport and enjoyment people find so revolting. Hunting in the wild, whether it be for subsistance or sport, at least pits the hunter against the challenges of the land and gives the animal the chance to escape and foil the hunter - even if technology and human encroachment has tilted the playing field in the human's favour, there's still a sort of fairness to the whole thing. Shooting a domesticated animal in a limited area doesn't seem like hunting, just killing. What differentiates it from herd managers culling livestock (or the Farmer culling Betsy or Bruno), is that they don't take pleasure in the culling.

My $0.02CAD worth.

 

[mdisher]

<snip>

I don't have a great hate-on against hunting, although I'm not crazy about it and sometimes I can be heard saying that if the hunters have guns then the animals should get them too just to make things even.

I think it's the notion of "hunting" a captive domestic-raised tame animal for the sport and enjoyment people find so revolting. Hunting in the wild, whether it be for subsistance or sport, at least pits the hunter against the challenges of the land and gives the animal the chance to escape and foil the hunter - even if technology and human encroachment has tilted the playing field in the human's favour, there's still a sort of fairness to the whole thing. Shooting a domesticated animal in a limited area doesn't seem like hunting, just killing. What differentiates it from herd managers culling livestock (or the Farmer culling Betsy or Bruno), is that they don't take pleasure in the culling.

My $0.02CAD worth.

[What he said] +1

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Same results as talking about abortion. Two sides to the story and who's right? Hunter/non hunter? go figure the results.

 

[meosborn]

Why would you want to kill something as magnificent as that? I don't get it?

What does that have to do with it? You can only shoot it if it is ugly?

And as far as raising an animal for a hunt, what is the difference between that and raising a cow for the slaughter?

 

[GalaxyBlue]

Why would you want to kill something as magnificent as that? I don't get it?

What does that have to do with it? You can only shoot it if it is ugly?

And as far as raising an animal for a hunt, what is the difference between that and raising a cow for the slaughter?

I would guess the personal satisfaction of the "Earned Kill" is missing here. Hunting in the wild, I have no problem with... But these guys who brag about their kill in a controled environment have issues. IMO

 

[weekend rider]

Folks let me tell you this is not hunting. having to shoot a pet

I prefer to call it ELK ON A ROPE (kind of like soap on a rope ) where is going to go? Only to the end of

the rope, than open fire with your machine gun and hope you kill it. " Dis-claimer, I respect everyones right to hunt, but that means I do not have to like it.

It would look better say in a pic being posted on one of our cross country trips than tasting it at dinner time.

Hope the baron chokes on his first bite weekend rider ex-hunter since 1975

I bagged a moose in British Coloumbia after I got it and thought about it what a waste for me to hunt and kill it, for what the thrill................

 

[meosborn]

I would agree that someone bragging about the "hunt" of a raised animal that is shot in an enclosed environment is laughable. But, just because it isn't what most would consider a hunt, doesn't mean that it is some sort of moral crime. At least, no more than raising a cow and slaughtering it for steaks and leather jackets.

Of course, my comparison assumes that these animals are eaten and not just killed so that their hides and horns can be displayed for bragging rights. These "trophies" are, I think, a perversion of what hunting is supposed to be about.

I think it could be argued that it is more moral to go out and kill the meat that you eat rather than just enjoying the fruits of someone elses labor. Although the meat industry would rather you just buy it at the supermarket.

 

[Toecutter]