Another CCS100 cruise control on the FJR1300AS (AE)

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DIP Switch #7 is supposed to be OFF for a Gen II. First check this. If it is OFF then you may have a vacuum problem....
Don't know where you got this from, GenII people are still taking the speed signal from the coil. Mine works pretty well (now
smile.gif
) with #7 ON. Maybe someone is taking their speed signal from somewhere else?
There were a number of '06 and '07 owners that installed the AVCC and had sudden shut-off problems. The cruise would often work for a 1/2 hr or more before it started to drop out or refuse to set. Switch #7 ON is for a coil system and OFF is for an ECU supplied signal to trigger the coils. I believe that this is a bit misspoken, I think that the word COIL should have actually have been POINT ignition. The AVCC has been around since at least the '70s, I installed them in three cars. In the first install my car had a breaker point ignition system and had to have Switch 7 in the 'coil' position to handle the complex signal. The next two installs had an ignition module and the install still preferred #7 being ON. The FJR is a true ECU based signal which is a fairly clean pulse as opposed to a really trashy point signal. I dunno why being OFF mattered more on the Gen II than the Gen I but I do know that this resolved many problems of unexpected shut-off. I can only speculate that it has something to do with the AVCC passive or digital signal filtering not agreeing with the ECU signal wave shape on the Gen II.

Since FWFE has the switch OFF it's moot in troubleshooting his problem. It sounds like FWFE has an adequate vacuum system installed but over time things may start to leak. Riding with a vacuum gauge Teed onto the AVCC vacuum line would answer this PDQ. It may also be worth a look to confirm that the throttle connection isn't getting hung up and to verify that the brake isn't sticking and verify that the brake wire connection is still solid.

 
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So, just dove into my servo, and found dip switchs 1-4-7 on, will set switch 7 to off per Gen-II specs per Ionbeam and will see what happens. I don't know how this happened as I only went over the switch settings a dozen times as I was trying to cure an initial issue during installation and trial runs... My hats off to all of you on this international issue, US, Canada and England.. We gots foreign policy down!

FWFE

 
...

There were a number of '06 and '07 owners that installed the AVCC and had sudden shut-off problems. The cruise would often work for a 1/2 hr or more before it started to drop out or refuse to set. Switch #7 ON is for a coil system and OFF is for an ECU supplied signal to trigger the coils. I believe that this is a bit misspoken, I think that the word COIL should have actually have been POINT ignition. ...
Thanks for that. I read some of the posts you referenced (I even seem to remember reading them some time in the past, but I didn't remember them when doing mine. Memory getting worse.)

It all makes sense, it would seem that the tacho input is marginal on the GenII when switch 7 is ON, and presumably its sensitivity lowers when warm (or the voltage from the coil connection is lower).

Mine is currently left in the ON position until it gives me a problem; I'm getting fed up with unsealing it and re-sealing it.

I've put my air vent pipe in, the open end under the seat:



For the record, sucking or blowing into the vent pipe confirms that the actuator is pretty air-tight.

Went out for an hour on a nearby main road with long stretches of hills, up and down; set the CC to a sensible (for an FJR) speed, it behaved very well. Good result
tongue.gif
.

So, just dove into my servo, and found dip switchs 1-4-7 on, will set switch 7 to off per Gen-II specs per Ionbeam and will see what happens. I don't know how this happened as I only went over the switch settings a dozen times as I was trying to cure an initial issue during installation and trial runs... My hats off to all of you on this international issue, US, Canada and England.. We gots foreign policy down!

FWFE
Make sure you let us know your results.

 
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Shazam!! Venting of the servo unit is a big find, and in retrospect makes all the sense in the world. which is probably why nobody thought of it before? :huh: .

In the past we've all been concerned with ensuring we have adequate vacuum / suction for pulling in the throttle, but never paid much attention to the ability to release it. My CC is under the seat (taking up > 1/2 of the tool tray) so I did not bother going to the extremes of waterproof sealing that you rear wheel mount guys have to. I wonder if there would be any advantage to venting a non-silicone-sealed unit?

The air must be entering the stock servo body via the cable cover, which is somewhat sealed with a strip of foam rubber. In my case, as in yours, I have my servo oriented such that the wires and foam seal are on the top. Any casual water sitting on that seal might get sucked into the servo. Maybe a new winter project for me this year. ;)

Also, FWIW, I am that other forum member that ionbeam mentioned earlier who found some issues with using multiple vacuum ports, even with check valves. Being an obsessive RDCUaTBS guy, I know exactly how my engine feels when everything is in good balance. On my bike there is a turbine like smoothness that happens between ~3k and 4500 rpm when everything is perfect and I enjoy running in that range greatly.

I'd built up a four way manifold of vacuum tubing and tee connectors with check valves at each of the four vacuum port take-offs but immediately noticed that the TBS felt off. When I removed the manifold and went back to a single vacuum port and it was smooth again. I checked each of the check valves and they were all operating correctly. I cannot explain how or why it happened. Since these tubes must all be removed to measure the vacuum balance I couldn't investigate it any further without adding additional tees in the manifold to be used as service ports. Rather than doing that I decided to just stick with a single vacuum port which seems to work fine anyway.

 
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I just wish there was an "unset" switch. I'm having evil thoughts about modifying the switch unit so that (perhaps) the "ON" switch will work as an "UNSET" switch if the unit is in the "set" state.
mcathrophy, you've got me wondering too!

With the CCS100, would a blip of vacuum loss at the servo be enough to disengage the unit?

Dumpvalve.jpg


Example of a 12V solenoid valve on ebay.

The "pause switch" could be a spring loaded miniature 2-pole switch like this, complete with waterproof cap.

With my existing installation, I would add the second micro-switch next to the coast/resume switch. The right side switch (existing) in this touched up photo is horizontal, pull for engage/accel, push for coast/set, and the new switch would be vertical, off at rest, on spring-loaded down.

Pauseswitch.jpg


I'd run the switched 12V for the solenoid from my existing illuminated on/off rocker switch.

On-OffSwitch.jpg


Now the 6 million dollar question: is this worth the trouble or do I continue simply using the brake or the clutch for pause? Have I got way too much time on my hands? :unsure:

 
After a while you get used to flashing the brake light without actually engaging the brakes.

That is my "Unset" or "Pause" button. And anyone riding behind gets some warning that you'll be slowing down at the same time.

I suppose if you really wanted a dedicated switch for it you could just tie in a momentary switch putting 12V on the brake light circuit...

 
To CANCEL my set speed I've been known to use my left thumb and quickly toggle the left side button down, then back up again.

pad2.jpg


 
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Shazam!! Venting of the servo unit is a big find, and in retrospect makes all the sense in the world (which is probably why nobody thought of it before? :huh: ) .

...
Does make sense, doesn't it?

...

In the past we've all been concerned with ensuring we have adequate vacuum / suction for pulling in the throttle, but never paid much attention to the ability to release it. My CC is under the seat (taking up > 1/2 of the tool tray) so I did not bother going to the extremes of waterproof sealing that you rear wheel mount guys have to. I wonder if there would be any advantage to venting a non-silicone-sealed unit?

The air must be entering the stock servo body via the cable cover, which is somewhat sealed with a strip of foam rubber. In my case, as in yours, I have my servo oriented such that the wires and foam seal are on the top. Any casual water sitting on that seal might get sucked into the servo. Maybe a new winter project for me this year. ;)

...
When I first looked at the cover, my immediate thought was that it was waterproof always provided that the wires lay nicely in the grooves. The cover seemed a close fit all round except where the wires pass through, and the rubber seal looked well implemented. So, if air can be sucked through the rubber seal, it won't be very quickly, but maybe fast enough. (At that stage I'd given no thought to air getting in, that requirement never occurred to me.)

These two pics show the seal (the one of the lid has my extra sealant, you can just see the foam rubber under that - it's the only picture I have that shows the detail)

(Click on image for larger view)



As for whether you need to seal yours, I would say probably not, provided the wires are laying correctly, there shouldn't be much water in the tool tray area (I've never known any). I only decided to seal mine because I could envisage water coming hard off the tyre which could force its way through the seal.

Having said that, if it is really water tight, you probably need a vent. I'm almost wondering whether Audiovox hadn't considered this when they designed the thing.

...Also, FWIW, I am that other forum member that ionbeam mentioned earlier who found some issues with using multiple vacuum ports, even with check valves. Being an obsessive RDCUaTBS guy, I know exactly how my engine feels when everything is in good balance. On my bike there is a turbine like smoothness that happens between ~3k and 4500 rpm when everything is perfect and I enjoy running in that range greatly.
I'd built up a four way manifold of vacuum tubing and tee connectors with check valves at each of the four vacuum port take-offs but immediately noticed that the TBS felt off. When I removed the manifold and went back to a single vacuum port and it was smooth again. I checked each of the check valves and they were all operating correctly. I cannot explain how or why it happened. Since these tubes must all be removed to measure the vacuum balance I couldn't investigate it any further without adding additional tees in the manifold to be used as service ports. Rather than doing that I decided to just stick with a single vacuum port which seems to work fine anyway.
I'm only using one TBS port, testing so far suggests it's adequate (but I've not done many miles yet). The only reason I could see multiple ports causing an engine running problem is if you got any check valves the wrong way round, but I expect you've made sure they are correct. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that teeing off the intake air pressure sensor port(s) is bad (don't ask me why).

[edit]Found a reference about not using the inlet pressure sense ports here, but it seems to be contentious [/edit]

I've noticed no difference in engine smoothness after fitting the CC. I've not done a TBS of any sort, let alone the RDCUaTBS one. And my '10 is definitely smoother than my '06; I'd TBS'd that, but not in an unauthorised way.

As for the "Cancelling" suggestions:

I didn't really want to add another switch,

Tapping either brake seems to need sufficient movement to actually apply the brake,

Rocking the OFF-ON switch requires a bit of my attention because I haven't learned their position without looking, and, of course, my attention needs to be on whatever is causing me to want to slow down. But the latter is the simplest in terms of "extras".

Ok, I'm just fussy
blink.gif
.

 
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I also found that if you are actually accelerating, i.e., holding pressure on throttle and not maintaining a constant speed, the cruise will accelerate a lot more when first engaged. If you are on a level surface and back off the throttle until it just starts to coast, then engage, it will engage way more smoothly.

From past experience with other cruise controls, the sensitivity seems a bit high even on the low setting, and this is what causes the surge. Also, most cruises are meant for lower power automotive engines, and are pre-programmed to accelerate 1-2 mph upon engagement. A lot less noticable on a car, if at all. So, the real fix is to detune your FJR...... NOT!!

 
The weather here has cleared, and after changing the dip switch 7 to the off position, I was able to get out for a test ride,

I headed south on Highway 101, and hit the Thompkins hill, 59 degreees, however locked in the AVCC @ 70mph, and no cutoff issues, So, I am so far pleased with the results. come the warm weather and a loaded bike will be the real test.

On a side note, as I was returning to town, I get passed by a Sportster doing about 75 mph, the rider is wearing a full face helmet... I let him get 400 yards ahead of me, then realizing I am on a much superior machine, I did not even have to drop a gear to close the gap, I see him checking both mirrors in disbelief as he must of thought he had left me far behind... LOVE THE FJR!!

Thanks gang for your help on this cutoff issue!!

FWFE

 
I get passed by a Sportster doing about 75 mph, the rider is wearing a full face helmet... I let him get 400 yards ahead of me, then realizing I am on a much superior machine, I did not even have to drop a gear to close the gap, I see him checking both mirrors in disbelief as he must of thought he had left me far behind... LOVE THE FJR!!

FWFE
You bad, FWFE. My own experience with hard bagged sports touring bikes (ZX11, Blackbird, FJR), these knuckleheads must figger that anything carrying that much luggage has to be an easy target. Yup, I've seen many a desperate twist of the throttle. :yahoo:

 
I get passed by a Sportster doing about 75 mph, the rider is wearing a full face helmet... I let him get 400 yards ahead of me, then realizing I am on a much superior machine, I did not even have to drop a gear to close the gap, I see him checking both mirrors in disbelief as he must of thought he had left me far behind... LOVE THE FJR!!

FWFE
You bad, FWFE. My own experience with hard bagged sports touring bikes (ZX11, Blackbird, FJR), these knuckleheads must figger that anything carrying that much luggage has to be an easy target. Yup, I've seen many a desperate twist of the throttle. :yahoo:
Amen Rollie, My Canadian Brother!

FWFE

 
On a side note, as I was returning to town, I get passed by a Sportster doing about 75 mph, the rider is wearing a full face helmet... I let him get 400 yards ahead of me, then realizing I am on a much superior machine, I did not even have to drop a gear to close the gap, I see him checking both mirrors in disbelief as he must of thought he had left me far behind... LOVE THE FJR!!

FWFE
Through the week I went for a ride with some High Decibel mates. I took up the role of tail end charlie, you never know when one of these guys will break down. I was patient with the noise and lack of performance for quite some time, then something wonderful happened. I made my way to the front of the pack at a set of traffic lights, the lights went green and my bike went off. This time I could not hear the

High Decibel bikes but I did see them in my mirrors after the front wheel came back down. What a hoot!

Regards

Surly

:ph34r:

 
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Addendum.

Wanting an easy way of unsetting the cruise control, and considering many suggestions and options, I decided the easiest operationally when riding was to adjust the operating point of the front brake switch so that the brake light circuit would activate before any significant braking effect on the front wheel.

To that end, I doctored the brake switch to allow its operating plunger was a little further from the lug on the brake lever. This involved a bit of cutting and filing, the result being that touching the lever unsets the cruise control smoothly, exactly what I want. It will also (of course) flash the brake light, a warning to the current tail-gater that I might be slowing.

So, wheel in air so I can move it with my foot, switch connections pulled and ohmmeter connected

(click any image for larger view)



Tests to see where switch and braking operate

 

Switch removed, peg revealed . . . . . . and doctored



And, a quick run out proved it worked beautifully.

 
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I'm a bit curious why you didn't just file down the switch's plunger a bit?

Am I thinking wrong somewhere, or wouldn't that have done the trick? :unsure:

 
I'm a bit curious why you didn't just file down the switch's plunger a bit?

Am I thinking wrong somewhere, or wouldn't that have done the trick? :unsure:
That would have worked, but I was reluctant to lose the nice rounded profile of the plunger. (My skills with files and sandpaper are limited.)

Equally it would have worked to have filed down the lever's lug that operates the switch, but it's nice and smooth and shiny.

(click on image for larger view)



I preferred to leave it that way (see comment on my skills above).

 
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Perhaps you can tell me something. If set at (say) 60, I increase to 70 using the throttle, if I press the "set" button, will it take up at 70? I've tried this, but (due to congestion) I haven't yet succeeded.
Yes, it will, but you'll have that surge again, and it will eventually settle back down to 70
For the record, my cruise installation doesn't work that way. If I 'Set' a speed of 60 and let it engage, then manually roll up to 70 and press 'Set' again, my speed will drop back to 60. I have to tap either brake (to illuminate the brake light) or shift gears before I can set a new speed.

Note that I'm using a simple toggle switch rather than the stock control pad, and that may make all the difference. For all I know, the stock control pad may send a 'disengage' signal to the servo before sending the new 'Set' command.

 
Audiovox used an electric motor controller for the brain. I posted these pictures several years ago.

Solenoids.jpg


VacuumCup.jpg


PCBTop.jpg
I have my AVCC servo mounted in front of the coolant pipe, which makes troubleshooting and maintenance in that area a pain. What I'm wondering is, after looking at the exploded view of the guts of the AVCC, would it be possible to break the unit into its major chunks and mount each chunk separately? That would provide a helluva lot of additional flexibility in finding suitable locations, and I'm fairly sure it would mean my danged coolant pipe could stay in place instead of being pulled for maintenance and troubleshooting.

As it stands, the hard round plastic shell of the AVCC is a bit too big to fit past the coolant pipe, necessitating removal of the pipe to install or remove the AVCC or to access any wiring in that area. If breaking the AVCC down into 2 or 3 pieces isn't an option, perhaps the hard plastic shell can be trimmed in a way that allows it to slip past the coolant pipe. Has anyone been down this road before?

 
...

For the record, my cruise installation doesn't work that way. If I 'Set' a speed of 60 and let it engage, then manually roll up to 70 and press 'Set' again, my speed will drop back to 60. I have to tap either brake (to illuminate the brake light) or shift gears before I can set a new speed.

Note that I'm using a simple toggle switch rather than the stock control pad, and that may make all the difference. For all I know, the stock control pad may send a 'disengage' signal to the servo before sending the new 'Set' command.
The behaviour of mine is the same as you describe.

The stock control pad has simple switches, the circuit I've "gleaned' from its printed circuit board is shown in this diagram.

(click on image for larger view)



All the "clever" stuff is to control the on/off line to the actuator.

...

As it stands, the hard round plastic shell of the AVCC is a bit too big to fit past the coolant pipe, necessitating removal of the pipe to install or remove the AVCC or to access any wiring in that area. If breaking the AVCC down into 2 or 3 pieces isn't an option, perhaps the hard plastic shell can be trimmed in a way that allows it to slip past the coolant pipe. Has anyone been down this road before?
I think you'll find trimming is impractical. You might be able to knock an inch or so of the length, but the actuator is using the rubber diaphragm on the inside diameter of the case to convert air pressure to force.It won't work without complete re-engineering.

One reason I chose to put my actuator where I did was because of the need to remove that coolant pipe to put it in "your" position, which otherwise is pretty ideal.

 

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