Another Z6 bites it

[03silverbullet]

I would like to hear the replies now from the people who thought that the Z6's were the cats meow. With this kind of grief I wouldn't go near a Metzler for the FJR.

It's ashame that the z6 are having so many problems. It's a really good performing tire.

I put on 10 - 11k mile on the front z6 with no problems and no cupping at all.

The only thing I noticed was towards the end of the tire life, the steering became a little heavy and vague.

I replaced the z6 with the Pirelli Diablo Strada and they feel similar. After reading this thread, I will stick with the Pirelli.

I hope there are no problems with the Pirelli's

 

[Scab]

These reports of numerous problems with Metzler Z6's is news to me. I'm not saying its not a real problem - but I have to pose an obvious question. If it is so well know, why is Yamaha equiping their bikes with Z6's from the factory with them? Would Yamaha really expose themselves to this kind of risk (as Ford found out with Firestone) if the problems are so well known?

Just curious.

Money.

As bad as it pains me to say this, he's right. (he must have got the answer from someone else)

And you never know the underlying politics that drive some seemingly ass-hat decisions. Example is the Ford/Firestone relationship. This is due to a Ford desendant and Firestone desendant marriage from way back.

 

[Warchild]

The only thing I noticed was towards the end of the tire life, the steering became a little heavy and vague.

Yep, that's the feeling shortly before the belt separation phase.... :lol:

 

[afterburn]

IIRC, our friend Pierre Sousa-Lima in Portugal reported the first problem while he was on an extended trip on Mainland Europe maybe 2 years ago. Are more Euro riders having this issue (I don't get on Joos' board much anymore)?
Metz Z-4s and Z-6s, some people love'm....I. B. Chikkin. Loved my P.R.s and I'm enjoying my Pirelli Stradas.

Not that I know of, and I frequent a lot of boards. The only board I have heard problems with the Z6 FJR combo is this one (or joos' site, from people that are also here, all from the USA). On the Dutch FJR club, I am guessing over half the members run Metzeler and none of them ever had a problem.

However, there may be a link between over inflating to max psi (42psi) cold pressure and the weight of the FJR. None of the Dutch riders run 42psi that I know of and most problems I have read here (all?) are with people that do run 42psi front pressure. That still don't make it right, but it may be an indication.

 

[Mike-H]

IIRC, our friend Pierre Sousa-Lima in Portugal reported the first problem while he was on an extended trip on Mainland Europe maybe 2 years ago. Are more Euro riders having this issue (I don't get on Joos' board much anymore)?

Metz Z-4s and Z-6s, some people love'm....I. B. Chikkin. Loved my P.R.s and I'm enjoying my Pirelli Stradas.

Not that I know of, and I frequent a lot of boards. The only board I have heard problems with the Z6 FJR combo is this one (or joos' site, from people that are also here, all from the USA). On the Dutch FJR club, I am guessing over half the members run Metzeler and none of them ever had a problem.

However, there may be a link between over inflating to max psi (42psi) cold pressure and the weight of the FJR. None of the Dutch riders run 42psi that I know of and most problems I have read here (all?) are with people that do run 42psi front pressure. That still don't make it right, but it may be an indication.

+1

 

[SkooterG]

I serisously doubt the 42psi has anything to do with it. Going from 36 psi to 42 psi is not that big a jump. And, the more weight, the higher you are supposed to run tire pressures. As a general rule, higher tire pressures are actually *easier* on a tire as there will be less heat generated by the tire while in use. And excessive heat is the main killer of tires.

Plus, the tires are rated for 42 psi and I have spoken with enough tire engineers to know that there is a significant engineering safety factor in that rating and the tires can safely handle well in excess of 42 psi.

Where's FJRandy when you need him to extoll the virtues of the Metzelers?

It wasn't FJRandy...it was plain old, purple head, Randy. iow - me

I've seen enough. I was fooled by the hype that it was a very limited run that experienced the problems and they fixed it since we haven't heard anything in quite some time. Now this. I may be stubborn, but, I'm also man enough to say enough is enough. The Z6s will be replaced shortly.

[SIZE=14pt]happy now?????[/SIZE]

No. Not at all. Who am I going to be able to give crap to now? You have ruined this for me. I hate you!



And for all the newbies to this issue, and all those screaming bloody murder, the fact is that it is an extremely low percentage of these tires that have problems. That's why there has not yet been any big brew-ha-ha over this yet IMHO.

Still, even with an extremely low percentage of disintegrating front Metz tires, I have not yet heard of even one example of an Avon, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, or Dunlap tire suffering the same fate. So with plenty of good alternatives out there, why take the chance?

 

[afterburn]

I serisously doubt the 42psi has anything to do with it. Going from 36 psi to 42 psi is not that big a jump. And, the more weight, the higher you are supposed to run tire pressures. As a general rule, higher tire pressures are actually *easier* on a tire as there will be less heat generated by the tire while in use. And excessive heat is the main killer of tires.
Plus, the tires are rated for 42 psi and I have spoken with enough tire engineers to know that there is a significant engineering safety factor in that rating and the tires can safely handle well in excess of 42 psi.

Very valid argument you make, however it is the only difference I have been able to disect between the two groups so far.

No. Not at all. Who am I going to be able to give crap to now? You have ruined this for me. I hate you!

I run metzies... Granted, I run the new M3, not the Z6, but still..

Still, even with an extremely low percentage of disintegrating front Metz tires, I have not yet heard of even one example of an Avon, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, or Dunlap tire suffering the same fate. So with plenty of good alternatives out there, why take the chance?

I have heard of Conti's RoadAttacks doing the same, thread seperation. Actually, if you dig deep enough I am sure you will find dirt on every manufacturer.

 

[Shadowfax]

I would like to hear the replies now from the people who thought that the Z6's were the cats meow. With this kind of grief I wouldn't go near a Metzler for the FJR.

I still run 'em. I'll let you know if the sky falls.

 

[Randy]

No. Not at all. Who am I going to be able to give crap to now? You have ruined this for me. I hate you!

Mission accomplished

 

[radman]

I have heard of Conti's RoadAttacks doing the same, thread seperation. Actually, if you dig deep enough I am sure you will find dirt on every manufacturer.

Ah, WC's hot button push completed. Tire threads are just plain fun, ya know?

 

[ionbeam]

I’ve run Metz in the past on other bikes and never had a problem. My ’04 came with Z4s, got ~8,500 miles out of them. They had no chicken stripes left, pegs were sparked, carried 100% of FJRs max rated weight, 800 mile days two up, rode in torrential rain and never gave the tires a second thought. They did what was expected, did nothing unexpected. So, I put on a second set of Z4s. The second set was wearing a bit better than the first. I changed them early, again around 8,500 miles because I was leaving on a 1k mile, two up ride-about. Second set essentially the same as the first.

I read about the Z6 problems. I was aware that 3-4 people from the Forums had problems with the tires. You don’t know what happened to the tires during their life so it’s hard to say the problem is simply bogus tires. I knew that the Z6s were being used as OEM tires and extrapolated that to imply quality. Having reasonably good luck with the Z4s I decided to try the Z6s (fingers crossed, my life ready to flash before my eyes). At 10:00 one Sat. morning I took the Z4s off a good handling FJR. At 2:00 I pulled out of my garage with my fancy new Z6s spooned on. Bike handled bad. Wait, I didn’t see a bead line on the front tire. At this point the Z6s had been thoroughly dogpiled in the Forums so I submarined the issue and PMed Randy. After a couple of messages I broke the bead and reset the tires so I had an even bead line front and back. One quick, short ride later it was clear the handling was still bad. I had weave in corners, slight lack of straight line tracking, susceptibility to buffeting on the highway and weaving that started between 90 – 100 (units not disclosed to protect my driving record). I was stuck with the Z6s for my trip so I went with them. They did get somewhat better with mileage. I wanted to love those tires, I tried to love those tires. Damn, what pieces of $hit tires they were. The rear was toast at ~5,500 miles, cords showing. When I had the tires removed we very carefully inspected the carcasses (good term) and found nothing unusual. Dunno. I escaped with my life -- no blow-outs, no bubbles, no joy. --- >The rear was toast at ~5,500 miles< --- that's called a mercy killing :assassin:

 

[GunMD]

I’ve run Metz in the past on other bikes and never had a problem.

When I read this I thought, "Oh no, here we go..."

Then you redeemed yourself with this...

what pieces of $hit tires they were

Welcome to the club.

 

[twowheelnut]

It wasn't FJRandy...it was plain old, purple head, Randy. iow - meI've seen enough. I was fooled by the hype that it was a very limited run that experienced the problems and they fixed it since we haven't heard anything in quite some time. Now this. I may be stubborn, but, I'm also man enough to say enough is enough. The Z6s will be replaced shortly.

happy now?????

Welcome back from the dark side, Randy.

Oh, lest I forget: Neener, neener, neener! Tollja so!

:grin:

 

[skyway]

I have heard of Conti's RoadAttacks doing the same, thread seperation. Actually, if you dig deep enough I am sure you will find dirt on every manufacturer.

I had not heard of tread seperation on the Conti's, but Conti themselves does not recommend the road attack tire for the front of the FJR. This could very well be the reason why there have been tread separation issues with this tire.

 

[skyway]

I wonder if the Pirelli Diablo Stradas have the same problem? The Metzelers and Pirellis are built in the same German factory.
I've got a free front Strada which will be installed later this year. Comments on the Stradas?

Having 2 products produced in the same factory does not necessarily mean they are the same. Though they may share the same presses and employee's for the molding process, it is entirely possible that the raw materials used and manufacturing process could be quite different.

The only way I could see that both tires could be the same, is if a single team of engineers, chemists and material scientists developed both tires and rubber compounds.

I would be interested to get the information from the side walls of both tires for a comparison on belts etc?

 

[twowheelnut]

Having 2 products produced in the same factory does not necessarily mean they are the same. Though they may share the same presses and employee's for the molding process, it is entirely possible that the raw materials used and manufacturing process could be quite different.
The only way I could see that both tires could be the same, is if a single team of engineers, chemists and material scientists developed both tires and rubber compounds.

I would be interested to get the information from the side walls of both tires for a comparison on belts etc?

The way I heard/read/dreamed it was that Pirelli bought (Metzeler) the Z6 as is and has done little to change it. Or sumpin' like that. I think it was in MCN, maybe? Dun remember...

 

[afterburn]

I have heard of Conti's RoadAttacks doing the same, thread seperation. Actually, if you dig deep enough I am sure you will find dirt on every manufacturer.

I had not heard of tread seperation on the Conti's, but Conti themselves does not recommend the road attack tire for the front of the FJR. This could very well be the reason why there have been tread separation issues with this tire.

Actually, it wasn't on a FJR but on a XX front tire. Still, it show all brands can have issues.

 

[Randy]

It wasn't FJRandy...it was plain old, purple head, Randy. iow - me

I've seen enough. I was fooled by the hype that it was a very limited run that experienced the problems and they fixed it since we haven't heard anything in quite some time. Now this. I may be stubborn, but, I'm also man enough to say enough is enough. The Z6s will be replaced shortly.

happy now?????

Welcome back from the dark side, Randy.

Oh, lest I forget: Neener, neener, neener! Tollja so!

:grin:

that's right...you did....just for that, I'm keepin em on.

 

[Ronman]

Just replaced the rear Z6 with a little over 5k on it. It was worn out....completely. Loved the tire. Handled great and stuck like glue from shoulder to shoulder, though it didn't last long, I think, for a sport-touring tire.

Still have the front mounted, though after reading this thread me thinks I should get it tossed before my next long ride.

Too bad, as I've had very good luck and performance from Metz over the years.

 

[Mike-H]

That's the great thing about the forum.....everybody has an opinion....right wrong....or indifferent....