Any legal beagels out there?

[thompsonian]

Ok. So let me try to make a long story short here:

At the beginning of this year, we were given the opportunity to house sit for a friend of my mother in law. The deal was that we were to live in the house and take care of the property for the next 5 years while they prepared to move overseas. There was to be no rent or gas bill. Basically, we would have lived there for only the minorest of utility bills. Well, again for the sake of time, let's just say that the deal was too good to be true and we decided to move back into our home. Now, during the move in/out there was some wallpaper in the upstairs hall way that got torn. The ownerr herself had stated how she disliked that wallpaper and was going to get rid of it when she moved back home anyways, so no big deal we thought. Well now that we have moved home and she is back, we think they are headed for divorce since things are getting crazy for them, she is throwing a fit about the torn wallpaper upstairs. Now for an even larger catch here: THERE WAS NO FORMAL AGREEMENT SIGNED BY EITHER PARTY!!!! We never signed any kind of lease or anything of the sort. And now she is trying to make us pay to either have that wall repapered or painted and us foot the bill. After she herself had said that she didn't like it and didn't care, she is thorwing a major hissy fit. I offered to PERSONALLY come take care of it, but she stated she does not want me anywhere near the property. So am I in the wrong here to think that she is going overboard or am I being the stubborn one? Also, should she try to take us to court to pay for the bill to have it repaired, would she even have a leg to stand on since there was no PHYSICAL documentation that we agreed to do ANYTHING with that house? Any and all comments/suggestions/ideas are welcome. Also if there ARE any legal type folks on the board here that do not want to publicly make a statement, feel free to either email me or shoot me a PM.

Thanks.

-Dave

 

[HYCLE]

Ok. So let me try to make a long story short here:
-Dave

Let me get this straight.

You got to live in a house for free for 7 months.

You admit to damaging the wallpaper when you moved.

You don't need legal advice, you need to pay for what you broke.

That said I would agree to pay to have it repaired and not to redecorate the whole room.

Just my opinion and not to be taken as legal advice.

 

[thompsonian]

The thing about it is, that I OFFERED to fix it myself for free, but she wants to have someone else do it. And I'm not about to do that. Especially when I can do it myself for a helluva lot cheaper. I offered a solution and she is balking at it. That's my reason for being the way I am about it. And the fact that she said she didn't care about the fact it was torn when we told her about it earlier.

 

[consumer22]

Ok. So let me try to make a long story short here:
At the beginning of this year, we were given the opportunity to house sit for a friend of my mother in law. The deal was that we were to live in the house and take care of the property for the next 5 years while they prepared to move overseas. There was to be no rent or gas bill. Basically, we would have lived there for only the minorest of utility bills. Well, again for the sake of time, let's just say that the deal was too good to be true and we decided to move back into our home. Now, during the move in/out there was some wallpaper in the upstairs hall way that got torn. The ownerr herself had stated how she disliked that wallpaper and was going to get rid of it when she moved back home anyways, so no big deal we thought. Well now that we have moved home and she is back, we think they are headed for divorce since things are getting crazy for them, she is throwing a fit about the torn wallpaper upstairs. Now for an even larger catch here: THERE WAS NO FORMAL AGREEMENT SIGNED BY EITHER PARTY!!!! We never signed any kind of lease or anything of the sort. And now she is trying to make us pay to either have that wall repapered or painted and us foot the bill. After she herself had said that she didn't like it and didn't care, she is thorwing a major hissy fit. I offered to PERSONALLY come take care of it, but she stated she does not want me anywhere near the property. So am I in the wrong here to think that she is going overboard or am I being the stubborn one? Also, should she try to take us to court to pay for the bill to have it repaired, would she even have a leg to stand on since there was no PHYSICAL documentation that we agreed to do ANYTHING with that house? Any and all comments/suggestions/ideas are welcome. Also if there ARE any legal type folks on the board here that do not want to publicly make a statement, feel free to either email me or shoot me a PM.

Thanks.

-Dave

Well, I am not an expert but I would guess it would cost her more to go to court than to get it fixed. I wouldn't worry about it. I understand it is easy for me to say since i am not in your shoes.

 

[exskibum]

I'd say Hycle and consumer22 (if he's talking about hiring lawyers) are both right. You don't have to have a written lease to be responsible for negligently damaging her property. I don't know what you have in WV, but here, this would be a small claims court action without lawyers. She'd get an estimate to fix the damage (and nothing more, unless it couldn't be fixed short of repapering the whole wall or repainting it), present that to the court and probably get a judgment for that amount plus the filing and service fees. She doesn't have to have you fix it -- she just has to have a reasonable estimate from a professional.

BTW, the first rule of litigation is always to appear to be the reasonable party.

So -- I'd suggest you write her a letter offering to fix it or pay for fixing it for a reasonable amount (noting that you need to see and approve any estimate for the work). Keep a copy. If the matter goes to court, that letter will be exhibit A for the judge to read, so make it state your side of the case reasonably, along with your reasonable offer to fix it. Don't get into a pissing match with her -- it isn't going to impress a judge.

What she once said about not liking or replacing that wallpaper is irrelevant. You screwed it up, and that isn't a reason for her to suddenly be obligated to initiate remodeling plans.

 

[FJRBluesman]

First off, I'm no lawyer. I'm not familiar at all with W.V. law. That being said…. You should seek some legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

Now here goes for a friendly forum opinion. Could be totally crap so take it as such.

Documentation, documentation, documentation. The person with the most proof, and within the law, wins!

First off no lease agreement, nothing in writing, a judge would go by a verbal agreement as the contract. Now the tough part is for the judge to figure out between the two parties, who is telling the truth to any details that are in conflict.

Like exskibum said, offer to fix it in writing, have it sent registered mail, etc. Have proof what you tried to do. If they try to sue in small claims you can show that you made an effort for restitution. That doesn't mean you'll win though.

The main issues are:

1) You have no written contract.

2) You have a verbal contract.

3) You damaged her wall paper.

4) You admitted it.

5) The person wants it fixed, and she can have anyone she feels fix it and stick you with the bill.

It would appear regardless what the woman said about hating the wall paper, legally you owe her the repair IMHO. Seven mos rent free aint to bad to fix the wall paper, then again I have no clue of your financial status, cost of repair, etc.

Good luck.

 

[Thug]

All good suggestions.....

Start the paper trail and make yourself look like the good guy just in case....If she has more money than she knows what to with then her legal options are limited....but fix it anyway get a few quotes together and let her have them and negotiate...

Good luck

 

[FatNakedGuy]

burn the house down and ask her "What wallpaper??"

 

[thompsonian]

burn the house down and ask her "What wallpaper??"

I like this option. Know anyone willing? J/k!!!!!

Yeah, I know the paper trail is the way to CMA. I think the real issue with me, and yes I did admit to doing it, is she had said before that it was no problem, yet now she is pissed. I don't know. I had discussed this with my MIL and told her that I thought about offering $100 for new paint and calling it that. I by no means have the flow to pay for someone to do all of the work. I don't know......maybe my mind just isn't here. We all thought this whole thing was a bad idea from the start and we should have listened to our hearts. Maybe I also needed to hear from a few folks here what I knew in my head was right. I guess we shall see.

 

[yanktar]

I think the answer is in the posts above:

Have her get a reasonable written estimate and pay it. Your payment and her acceptance of that payment should be considered by the courts as settling the matter. For example, if you owe money on any debt, and short of paying it off you give the debt-holder a partial payment, if he/she accepts it, that generally is considered an unwritten contract and they cannot take action against you. However, if they reject the partial payment, they can still act.

Just as an alterate perspective:

From her POV, she gave you an incredibly sweet deal and you p***ed all over her, and added insult to injury by saying "Hey! You didn't like the wallpaper anyway!" I'll bet she's sorry that in her sweet deal she didn't ask for a damage deposit and at least a nominal rent. You would have had to give at least 2 months FAIR rent on the house as a deposit were you simply renting it. Quite frankly, if I offered someone a deal like that I'd expect them to RESPECT my property and do whatever it takes to fix it.

I know you don't like hearing this, but her reasons for selling the house are hers, and now she has one more thing to fix.

 

[thompsonian]

Ok. There is a reason I made the long story short. I didn't piss all over the deal. You want some details on the deal? How bout.....no. I'm not going there. I'm considereing the matter closed. Admins may lock/delete if necessary. Thanks.

 

[exskibum]

Ok. There is a reason I made the long story short. I didn't piss all over the deal. You want some details on the deal? How bout.....no. I'm not going there. I'm considereing the matter closed. Admins may lock/delete if necessary. Thanks.

There are two sides to every story, and I'm not sure I've ever seen one in which one party was 100% to blame and unreasonable while the other was 0%. Yanktar and others pointed that out. You wanted input; you got it. Sounds to me from what you've posted that you lose on this one, and from what you've posted, that you're not coming across as being all that reasonable, whether she is or not. Is there a reason that you're likely to give a better or different impression in court? Seems to me that you got valuable feedback on how YOU are coming across in stating the case, and on the facts you've recited. Don't blame the messengers -- you don't always get the answer you want.

In most disputes, both parties' emotions are involved. Yours seem to be. The courts don't much care about your emotional reactions to her or vice versa, except that it's unnecessarily time consuming. If you want to tell the court the whole long story about a pissing match -- her actions, every last thing she's said, the emotionally charged exchanges between you -- you're going to get the judge rolling his or her eyes and directing you to get past it to the simple issues of responsibility and reasonable amount for repair of the damage. There are usually a lot of people waiting their turns to have their cases heard, and no one there wants to hear a story that is mostly tattling on the other's immature actions as if that has some bearing on the simple facts about liability and damages.**

One of the questions you're going to face in court is likely to be why you didn't fix it after you damaged it -- BEFORE she came back, made an issue of it and you then offered to fix it yourself. And just how bad or extensive is the damage that this has become such an issue? And lastly, I can't imagine how the house sitting/rental arrangement (written or oral) has anything to do with this, regardless of whether it was a good deal, bad deal or indifferent. How would it be any different if you simply had a piece of your furniture stored at her house and damaged her wallpaper taking it out?

[SIZE=8pt]** BTW, I am a lawyer, have provided volunteer small claims counseling on numerous occasions and have sat as a small claims judge maybe 8 - 10 times over the years. That is not to say that I'm admitted to practice in your jurisdiction or that you should rely upon my conclusions as legal advice. If you want reliable legal advice, consult with an attorney in your jurisdiction about the specifics of your case. Your local bar association may also have a program to provide voluntary (free) small claims advice.[/SIZE]

 

[thompsonian]

You see, you are right. Emotions have been involved. There were alot of things said that I took very high personal offense to and I didn't want to see it. I'm not angry at the messengers, they were just able to see the tings I didn't want to.

 

[weekend rider]

"

The only answer to your question , " JUDGE JUDY " :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Midnight Sun Rider]

Dude you got free rent for 7 months. Get a couple of estiments and pay to have the place painted or rewallpapered. Some times you just have to be a bigger person than the one you are dealing with. Just my .02

 

[Bounce]

Not a lawyer either but:

there's a reasonable man aspect in law. even without something in writing a you-break-it-you-fix-it is pretty commonly acceptable. my bet is a judge would side with her on getting it fixed.

a "handy man" fix may not meet some standard of returning it to a condition in which you found it. again a judge would probably side with her. it doesn't matter how much she liked it or not (an irrelevant argument/distraction). putting it back into the same condition it was in when you took up residence could easily exclude a "patch job".

without a lawyer, you would probably lose.

with a lawyer, you'll spend more than the repair.

do the right thing and get 3 estimates, pick the lowest of the 3, and get it fixed (standard practice in most situations).