Anyone use the rear brake?

[CHRIS_D]

Normally, I use them roughly evenly....however I find myself using the rear more when running elevated speeds when I hear the beep from my V1. You know that notion....stab the rear brake to slow you down, but don't have the nose dip unnecessarily.

You know I thought I was the only one that did that!!

 

[HaulinAshe]

Aw man! This thread just keeps boiling my blood!!!

I use rear brake AND applied throttle at the same time while in turns. One free EOM beer to the first person who posts the correct explanation as to why an untrained, obviously uncouth, redneck, no-talent rider like me would do something so stupid.

Here's a hint... I also do the same thing with front brake and throttle in downhill twisties, when conditions are dry and surfaces are smooth.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I'm all ears and haven't a clue...can't wait to learn all of Haulin Ashe's tricks. :clapping:

 

[LAGO RUNNER]

Trail braking.. using the rear brake along with a feathered clutch maintains stability during very slow speeds and slow speed Maneuvering

 

[CHRIS_D]

Trail braking.. using the rear brake along with a feathered clutch maintains stability during very slow speeds and slow speed Maneuvering

Which by the way is hard on our bikes (gen II) since the brakes are integrated. Also for Gen II model to get the full stopping power of the front calipers you must apply the rear brakes to operate that 3rd piston.

Someone was mentioning what would happen when braking hard in a corner with the ABS. The bike has a lean sensor, so if it's lean over the ABS will not activate. This is wrong my mistake!!!!

 

[LAGO RUNNER]

Trail braking.. using the rear brake along with a feathered clutch maintains stability during very slow speeds and slow speed Maneuvering

Which by the way is hard on our bikes (gen II) since the brakes are linked. Also for Gen II model to get the full stopping power of the front calipers you must apply the rear brakes to operate that 3rd piston.

Someone was mentioning what would happen when braking hard in a corner with the ABS. The bike has a lean sensor, so if it's lean over the ABS will not activate.

Good to know...Thanks. Unfortunatly trail braking at slow speeds has become too much of a habit for me...

 

[HaulinAshe]

Time for me to add some additional explanation, just in case you guys are answering my question...

I was referring to turns at speed (especially tight twisties), not slow, parking lot type turns.

Post away ladies and gents...

 

[motorcycle-ed]

One reason to modulate rear brake and throttle in a turn is to stand up the bike some when brake is applied, lean back over when reducing the braking? Is that the reason Jeff?

As for normal stopping, I always use both brakes in whatever combination of effort is appropriate for the stop. Not because you need to but because you should develop the muscle sense so it is there when you need it. Not using the rear is a bad habit to develop because you lose the feel for using the rear under varying conditions and there are times when you NEED IT. I grew up racing motocross and the rear was damed important to overall bike handling and max effort stops.

My two cents...the opinion is free and you know what they say about free advice being worth what you paid for it.

<<<<<flame suit on>>>>>>>>

Ed

 

[HaulinAshe]

One reason to modulate rear brake and throttle in a turn is to stand up the bike some when brake is applied, lean back over when reducing the braking? Is that the reason Jeff?
As for normal stopping, I always use both brakes in whatever combination of effort is appropriate for the stop. Not because you need to but because you should develop the muscle sense so it is there when you need it. Not using the rear is a bad habit to develop because you lose the feel for using the rear under varying conditions and there are times when you NEED IT. I grew up racing motocross and the rear was damed important to overall bike handling and max effort stops.

My two cents...the opinion is free and you know what they say about free advice being worth what you paid for it.

<<<<<flame suit on>>>>>>>>

Ed

Ed, you are getting close, and right, just not the exact point I was originally looking for. Which further illustrates that there are many reasons that rear brakes can be used effectively.

I sometimes feel badly for anyone who did not have the opportunity to ride dirt. They missed out on learning to handle a bike in odd attitudes, with one or both wheels off the ground, when the rear starts to slide out from loss of traction, and all those situations that as a dirt rider/racer, you just take in stride and react to. There were/are a bunch of dirt racing habits that I've had to "unlearn" with the FJR, but I wouldn't trade that experience for anything when conditions get ugly.

The exact point I was trying to make, and which I will stick to looking for a response about, has to do with simple mechanics of the bike and at least two, often posted complaints from new FJR owners. That's a BIG hint.

 

[motorcycle-ed]

Ahah! You gave it away with the hint. You are trying to keep from closing the throttle completely so you don't get the SURGE when the throttle is opened. I use the same technique manuevering in the parking lot. Keep a bit of brake on and don't close the throttle.

Ed :yahoo:

 

[cougar8000]

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME FOLKS

When you are applying rear brake in the turn you are compressing rear suspension which in turn minimizes the trail and distance between two wheels which makes the bike turn sharper ala carte sport bike dynamics. Been using it for a very long time and works great. But you have to be very close and personal with your rear brake for it to work this way.

CHRIS_D

When I was talking on what would happen if you brake in the turn it was regardless if the bike has ABS or NOT.

And if I remember correctly if you are sliding sideways ABS does not get activated any way, which is what happens in the turn after your tire looses traction.

 

[Jagermeister]

I also drag the rear brake while throttling, when riding aggressively. It's the smoothest method to really cook through (and out of) a corner. In addition to controlling the surge, the rear brake helps control the heavy bike's lean angle.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Ahah! You gave it away with the hint. You are trying to keep from closing the throttle completely so you don't get the SURGE when the throttle is opened. I use the same technique maneuvering in the parking lot. Keep a bit of brake on and don't close the throttle.Ed :yahoo:

DING DING DING... We have a winner!!!

Two big complaints from FJR newbies...

1. Great bike but I can't stand that surge of throttle as I exit the apex of a turn!

HAS (Haulin Ashe Solution)

Don't let the throttle go completely closed. Keep the RPMs up by slightly applying throttle, feathering the clutch and simultaneously applying rear brake pressure to regulate speed. As soon as you regain enough vertical attitude, dump the clutch, ease off the rear brake while applying increased throttle. Makes a very smooooooth transition to full acceleration.

2. What's that slappin' noise /clunk I keep hearing coming through turns? Is something loose?

HAS

Remember chain slap??? Old racer technique - keep the drive train loaded by applying some throttle and rear brake simultaneously through turns. Keeps the "slack" or "slop" out of the chain and prevents the lash or slap when transitioning from brake to acceleration. Same thing works for shaft drive bikes where the slap action can be much more pronounced and can greatly contribute to breaking the rear tire loose.

I'm not meaning to take credit for these ideas. They are OLD SCHOOL, just like me. I just type well from my soap box.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I see I owe Jager half a beer. He posted before I could finish the award.

 

[Duff]

I find the rear brake much more effective on the FJR than on any of my other bikes (first ABS bike I've owned too). I normally apply both at the same time, but playing with the FJR's brakes I find that after the initial 50/50 application, adding more rear brake significantly increases stopping power much more that it did on my old bikes.

<SNIP>

You bring up a good point and I have found the same to be true. I believe this is due to the front caliper having one piston controled by the rear brake. When you are braking fairly evenly between the front and rear, a little more application of the rear really seems to bring the bike down more than you would expect. Perhaps this is because it is applying it to both AND rear! Interesting... :glare:

 

[Solo]

Much has been said here about frt and rear brake use. After 43 years riding and 5 or so years road racing up to a national championship level, all I have to offer is, of course, I use both.

 

[El Toro Joe]

I always use both front & back brakes

 

[CHRIS_D]

Good to know...Thanks. Unfortunatly trail braking at slow speeds has become too much of a habit for me...

Are you Motor Officer by chance? I'm sure as you know when they do all there slow speed maneuvers they live by riding that rear brake to get around those obstacles at slow speeds. It works great on a non-integrated bike. On my bike as you press down there's a point to where the rear brake is only on before it starts to activate the front. It still not enough to get that really sharp turn as you could on HD Classic or a bike that isn't integrated. There's actually a class in Jacksonville called "Advanced MRC" that is hosted by Motor Officers that have you go through all the same exercises that an Officer would. I plan to attend this in October.

CHRIS_D
When I was talking on what would happen if you brake in the turn it was regardless if the bike has ABS or NOT.

And if I remember correctly if you are sliding sideways ABS does not get activated any way, which is what happens in the turn after your tire looses traction.

Alex, That wasn't directed at you in fact looking back I don't know where I thought I read this concern at. :dribble: As we both know (I'm a MSF instructors too) is that cornering takes a lot of the bike available traction, so when you introduce hard braking while in a corner (which also uses a LOT of the traction) it's easy to quickly use up all the bike's traction thus causing it to slide. This is why, (if it's possible) when braking hard in a corner you should straighten the bike first, square the handlebars then apply max braking. Yes and when doing a quick stop you should always use both brakes especially on our GEN II bikes since they are integrated and you will be losing some stopping power on the front if you don't use the rear.

Much has been said here about frt and rear brake use. After 43 years riding and 5 or so years road racing up to a national championship level, all I have to offer is, of course, I use both.

Question, with your racing background do you use the technique descriped by HaulinAshe when cornering?

 

[Auburn]

I use both always. How much breaking power each wheel has depends on whether the rear tire is on the ground or not.

 

[bandito]

QUOTE(bandito @ Sep 26 2007, 04:14 PM) *

On a bike this heavy I don't use weight shift beause I don't think it matters as much as on a sportbike. Your Gen II has linked brakes, so try a little bit of the back brake and throttle at the same time. (do this smoothly and practice it on a wide curve first)

rolleyes.gif

It only matters if you have a "few extra pounds" like most of us old farts.

smile.gif

I like the combined linked brakes and throttle idea. Will have to give that a try. It would definitely load the suspension and create a similar geometry change as the weight shift, without causing any variation in straight-line travel speed (mph). Besides, it gives me one more way to burn away brakes!

smile.gif

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Remeber this thread? and that we got hammered by the MSF guys about braking in turns!! I first saw this technique descriped in a motorcycle review of the Honda ST, or BM I forget which, and the tester described it as the equivalent of the rally driver heel-toe brake/throttle maneuver.

To answer the original question, bake brakes only at low speed with clutch slip to control manouvering, both brakes every time else (with a few exceptions) because on the Gen II you don't get all of the front without hitting the back.