Appears to be an electrical issue?

[charismaticmegafauna]

Silver, I've seen the 2 threads of which you speak. I thank you greatly.

Resting volts are 12.47

idling volts are 13.6

Is this normal voltage?

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Yes, that is within the range. A strong, 100% battery will be closer to 12.8 volts, but 12.47 is well within the range for a charged battery.

I am going to disagree here. I have never seen my battery at 12.47 volts fully charged. That is low.

I agree.

As a point of reference, here are the "State of Charge" charts from 2 Factory Activated AGM batteries (the only type recco'd for the FJR):

Batt.1: 100% = 12.8 V ~ 13.0 V

75% = 12.5 V ~ 12.8 V

50% ~ 75% = 12.0 V ~ 12.5 V

Batt.2: 100% = 13.0 V

75% = 12.8 V

50% = 12.5 V

25% = 12.2 V

0% = 12.0 V or less

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Silver, I've seen the 2 threads of which you speak. I thank you greatly.

Resting volts are 12.47

idling volts are 13.6

Is this normal voltage?

**************************

Yes, that is within the range. A strong, 100% battery will be closer to 12.8 volts, but 12.47 is well within the range for a charged battery.

I am going to disagree here. I have never seen my battery at 12.47 volts fully charged. That is low.

I agree.

As a point of reference, here are the "State of Charge" charts from 2 Factory Activated AGM batteries (the only type recco'd for the FJR):

Batt.1: 100% = 12.8 V ~ 13.0 V

75% = 12.5 V ~ 12.8 V

50% ~ 75% = 12.0 V ~ 12.5 V

Batt.2: 100% = 13.0 V

75% = 12.8 V

50% = 12.5 V

25% = 12.2 V

0% = 12.0 V or less

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IMHO, those are "surface charge" rates. You can't measure a battery for at least 3-4 hours AFTER the charge is complete to get the true voltage. If those numbers above are correct, then I have a Yamaha, a Suzuki, a Kawasaki, a powered parachute, a boat, and 5 cars with BAD batteries. I can't recall seeing any of them showing a charge of over 12.85 or so for fully charged. Either that, or I have 2 bad multi meters :huh:

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Sitting here listening to this boring azz conference call...so....decided to do a little homework on the web to check these varying opinions on batteries. Below are some snippets from a few web sites that came up on the google search term "fully charged battery voltage". Read, interpret, apply, and enjoy.

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As far as I can see, these examples all show a fully charged battery as less than 12.8 volts. Go figure.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

IMHO, those are "surface charge" rates. You can't measure a battery for at least 3-4 hours AFTER the charge is complete to get the true voltage.

Those are 'at rest' specs from two of the latest-type motorcycle batteries: I.E. -- Factory Fill, VRLA, sealed, maintenance-free, AGM (the latest, readily available, construction/technology).

If those numbers above are correct, then I have a Yamaha, a Suzuki, a Kawasaki, a powered parachute, a boat, and 5 cars with BAD batteries... :huh:

Don't confuse other types of batteries with the one that comes in (and is the only type recco'd for) the FJR -- older-style wet/flooded lead-acid batteries operate on lower voltages (one of the benefits of MamaYama spec'ing such a battery is its fast spin of the engine on the starting motor).

 

[ionbeam]

...As far as I can see, these examples all show a fully charged battery as less than 12.8 volts. Go figure.

As you have seen, the charts are appropriate for only some of the chemistry in some batteries. This is not a one chart fits all situation. Battery chemistry, battery design, test temperature, surety of charge, specific gravity of the electrolyte and stand time since charge will all affect the results. I would consider the table to be a lab bench check, but not a meaningful real world definitive test.

Heidi's symptoms are being reported about a running motorcycle and a volt meter installed on the motorcycle, not a battery on a bench at room temperature. I'm not sure that the "State of Charge" chart applies to what she can measure. Given the meter she has, all she can do is pretty much look at a running voltage, even the key ON, engine OFF voltage reading isn't meaningful because of all the electrical things being powered off the battery when the key is ON.

Walter is correct in saying that 13.x volts at idle is low. As I noted in an earlier post, we really need to know what the output of the R/R is, right at the connector. Low idle voltage is often caused by connection issues at the starter relay. In this case I doubt that the low voltage is related to flaky starting.

There is a limited amount of valid troubleshooting Heidi can do with the meter she has. If her motorcycle is going to be undependable and given the insufficient tools she has to work with it would be my opinion that it would be a good idea to have a trusted dealer or shop diagnose the problem. She doesn't have to have the fault(s) fixed by the dealer, just pay for the diagnosis and seek repair elsewhere.

Too bad these things are so far away, I have an easy to use clamp-on amp probe that can sort this all out really quickly. I'm afraid a round trip plane ticket would be more than a dealer repair.

Edit: I see that 'megafauna posted while I was typing. We do sort of agree. If these tables work for 'Cruizer that's fine. I wouldn't recommend this table as a single go/no go test to determine the health of a battery.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Actually, all my bikes have AGM batteries, and so does the powered parachute. My cars are not, of course. I had to replace my '08 FJR battery 2 weeks ago. I got a AGM Interstate battery. Put the meter on it, and it read 12.79 volts out of the box. I installed it, road the bike for a few days, and when I pulled my panel off to run a power wire for an LED light, I put the meter to it again. If I remember correctly , it read 12.75 volts. Seemed like a good number to me, so I put the cover back on and havent give it a second thought.

I dont check my car or bike batteries at all during the summer months, but every winter I put the meter to my cars at least once a month, and to the bikes as least once or twice during the winter. I check the powered parachute battery every time I am going to fly it, which is usually at least once or twice a month. I check the boat battery every time I am going to be heading out to the lake, which is about 10-12 times a season. They all pretty much show the same voltages, which is 12.6 to 12.7x volts. Your experience may vary.

 

[ionbeam]

So, out of the two pages of posts that range from wiggle the wires to using a State of Charge table, what can we consolidate out of this mess to help Heidi who only has a motorcycle mounted volt meter? A meter which we don't know the brand or how it is attached. I think the real decision point here is if we have enough equipment at her house to gain enough information to give solid help, or is it time to take an untrustworthy motorcycle to a dealer for at least a diagnosis.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Luv,

When you are out running the Bike... don't forget to get FULL charging output from the System, I believe you have to be running around 5k RPM or better.

Hope it is something simple.

 

[SkooterG]

Just checked my Datel. Bike has been sitting for 7+ hours. Approximately 60 degrees.

Datel is reading 13.01 volts.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

So, out of the two pages of posts that range from wiggle the wires to using a State of Charge table, what can we consolidate out of this mess to help Heidi who only has a motorcycle mounted volt meter? A meter which we don't know the brand or how it is attached. I think the real decision point here is if we have enough equipment at her house to gain enough information to give solid help, or is it time to take an untrustworthy motorcycle to a dealer for at least a diagnosis.

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I vote bring it to a shop to further diagnose.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Just checked my Datel. Bike has been sitting for 7+ hours. Approximately 60 degrees.

Datel is reading 13.01 volts.

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Dammmmnnn...you must be using one of them new fangled "depleted uranium" batteries!! Does your pecker glow green at nite? :huh:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Actually, all my bikes have AGM batteries,

There are "AGM" batteries and, still, other "AGM" batteries -- only the type fitted, originally, to the FJR (Factory Filled) are the latest, higher-voltage, technology.

So, out of the two pages of posts ...help Heidi who only has a motorcycle mounted volt meter?

I agree..., Heidi needs 'help' -- not 'rhetoric'...

...to get FULL charging output from the System, I believe you have to be running around 5k RPM or better.

I agree -- rev that puppy up...

 

[luvtoride]

Fellas, I just ran the bike... probably about an hour & a half worth. I'm quite sure that I was running in the 4000 RPM range since I was on the interstate running 10 mph over the speed limit.

I have a Datel voltmeter on my bike. I think Datel is the FJR standard to this date. It is connected directly to the battery. My battery is a Westco AGM type battery. My bike has in the neighborhood of 78,000(s)miles.

When I first got onto the interstate which is a few minutes from my house, I watched the voltmeter on and off. The bike started off showing what I think is fairly low voltage. It was in the 13.5/13.7 range. As ride went on the voltage rose to show over 14 volts. I witnessed some flipping of voltage at a steady throttle. I'm pretty sure that this shouldn't happen. The variations weren't more than a few hundredths when it was flipping around, but it was happening.

Is that a normal occurance or do other riders experience a steady voltage when using a steady throttle?

As to stops & re-starts. I did not have any issues. Then again, it's only about 43ish degrees & the bike didn't get very hot.

I want to thank everyone for their help. I will get this resolved... might just not be immediately if it's anything more than a loose connection... or something else fairly simple.

 

[SkooterG]

Heidi - is your datel only on when the ignition is on?

In my experience, my datel having slight fluctuations in the hundredth digit is not unusual. Sometimes it is rock steady and sometimes it moves around a little bit. Of course anything electrical - like turn signals or brake lights will cause it to fluctuate.

13.5/13.7 is a bit low. Sounds like your battery was not at full charge for the beginning of the ride. So the question is why? Bad battery? Or charging system? Or some other issue. How old is your battery?

 

[ionbeam]

I can't remember, does your bike have an ElectroSport stator? If yes, approximately how many miles on it?

 

[luvtoride]

Scoot, battery is brand new, just dropped in bike. I had attempted a trickle charge before putting it in. Charger was glowing green showing a full charge. From reading the literature, the charger stops charging when light glows green. My Datel turns on with key on.

Alan, no electrosport stator. I've always run the OEM.

 

[ionbeam]

I just installed a new battery on my bike...The bike presented a fairly slow turn when I fired her up with the new battery...Maybe the battery is indeed a little low...I went into the shed & started the bike to move it outside... I hit the starter switch to restart the bike to see how it would do...It turned slowwww... I mean really slowwww. The gauges reswept & all after the starter completely stopped turning. In a non mechanic mind, the gauges re-sweeping sounds possibly like loose terminals...This continued a couple more times. When the bike sits for a few minutes, it will start right up. I can likely go outside & start it right this minute. It seems the act of starting it, shutting it off & attempting a restart is not working like it should...

Check the cables to be sure they are tight. Be verrrry careful not to let the wrench on the +12 post touch anything (slip a glove or sock over the wrench). If the cables are tight there is a high probability of wire connections on the starter relay being corroded or a failing starter motor causing the problem.

Checking the connections on the starter relay means removing the right side fairing, or removing all the fasteners on the fairing and pulling the fairing away to give access to the relay. There is both a positive terminal and a negative terminal on the starter relay that will need checking. The output wires of the R/R goes to the starter relay on 12 ga. wire, then a pair of heavy cables run from the starter relay to the battery. It is this high current junction on the starter relay that often suffers from corrosion which leads to low voltage at the battery and slow cranking. But, usually not slow cranking when the slow cranking is directly tied to a time interval, time interval failure is typically the failure mode of a starter motor. Verifying a failing starter is a hard job for a home mechanic.

 

[luvtoride]

It is getting dark right now. This isn't gonna happen today... but I will look into what I can pronto. I appreciate all the words of wisdom from everyone, Heidi

 

[Randy]

Heidi - Did you have the same symptoms with the old battery? Do you still have it? Any chance you could put a full charge on the old battery and see if you end up with the same symptoms? Only reason I say this is because of my situation with a brand new WestCo that ended up being faulty.

 

[Zorlac]

She could get both batteries load tested at an autozone or maybe a napa store just to verify the conditions of both batteries.