Approves Bill Allowing Motorcycles to Run Red Lights

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ionbeam

2 FUN
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
8,817
Reaction score
1,785
Location
Sandown, NH
Published February 23, 2011

Ever been itching to run a red light that just won't change? Kansas lawmakers think motorcycle riders should be able to do just that.

The Kansas House on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow bikers to run a red light if the signal "fails" to turn green after a "reasonable period of time." The proposal leaves the discretion in the hands of the motorcyclist, but is aimed at ensuring riders don't get trapped in perpetuity at intersections because of signals that either malfunction or don't detect the motorcycles.

Motorcycle riders testified this month that their bikes were often not big or heavy enough to trigger the sensors that cause red lights to switch. For fear that riders would have to choose between being stuck on the Kansas tundra or running a light and risking a ticket, they urged the legislature to approve the so-called "Dead Red" bill giving them a free pass. The riders testifying in support of the bill belonged to a group known as ABATE, or A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments.

"Cars and trucks have no problem with it, but motorcycles have always been an issue," Crawford County Sheriff's Deputy Bob Peters said, according to Fox 14. "You may be on a section or roadway where you may wait for five minutes and there may not be other traffic along to trigger the sensor."

Though Peters supported the bill, it was opposed by Kansas police organizations that want their officers, not motorcycle riders, to have the discretion. One Republican lawmaker unsuccessfully tried to strip the red-light provision, saying, "I see no skeletal remains of motorcyclists sitting at red lights that never change," according to The Wichita Eagle.

The bill passed the House Tuesday as part of a broader road safety package. The other component in the package would prohibit local jurisdictions from imposing extra fines on drivers for seat-belt violations. The bill kept the statewide fine at $5 -- that would eventually rise to $10 or $60 depending on the severity of the violation.

The language in the motorcycle bill also covered bicycle riders.

House greenlights the "Dead Red" motorcycle bill

TOPEKA — The Kansas House has passed a bill to allow motorcyclists to ride through red lights that never change.

The measure, called the Dead Read bill, passed in conjunction with a measure to stop cities and counties from tacking extra fines onto seat-belt violations. The state passed a mandatory seat-belt law last year to qualify for federal highway funds, but set the fine at $5 for adult violators.

The two measures were combined into a single bill, House Bill 2192, by the House Transportation Committee, said its chairman, Gary Hayzlett, R-Topeka. A stand-alone version is on the calendar awaiting House action.

The bill was introduced after motorcyclists from the group ABATE — A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments — complained that their cycles lack the necessary mass of metal to trigger sensors in pavements that switch traffic lights at intersections.

That, they said, requires them to risk a ticket or wait indefinitely until a larger vehicle comes along to trip the sensor.

Rep. Owen Donohoe, R-Topeka, tried to amend the bill to strip out the dead red provision, saying it could cause accidents as cycles go through red lights and enter traffic.

"I see no skeletal remains of motorcyclists sitting at red lights that never change," he said.

John Faber, a lobbyist for ABATE, said he was pleased the bill passed but predicted it might face a rough road in the Senate because it was paired up with the seat-belt measure.

"The Senate's a little more moderate as far as seat belts go," Faber said. The Senate could strip out the seat-belt provision or it could kill the bill, he said.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Published February 23, 2011

Motorcycle riders testified this month that their bikes were often not big or heavy enough to trigger the sensors that cause red lights to switch........ The riders testifying in support of the bill belonged to a group known as ABATE, or A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments.
Given the usual style of motorcycle these guys ride I find that statement hard to believe.

Having said that, I do like the idea of being able to go thru the red light after a period of time if it's safe. I usually get stuck at left turn signals.

Aren't the lights triggered by magnetic switches in the road, not weight? I thought there was some sort of mega magnet for sale to mount on the lower frame to trigger the switch?

 
...Aren't the lights triggered by magnetic switches in the road, not weight? I thought there was some sort of mega magnet for sale to mount on the lower frame to trigger the switch?
The 'in pavement' sensors are a wire loop. The loop has a specific AC frequency running around the loop which is monitored by a computer. When a significant sized FERROUS object rolls over and into the loop it causes a significant change in the AC frequency. The computer identifies this change to mean a vehicle is present. When your ALUMINUM motorcycle rolls over the wire and into the loop the frequency change is substantially less. For your motorcycle to be detected the computer must be programmed to have significantly better sensitive to small frequency changes. There is reluctance to do this because the more sensitive setting can cause adjacent lane sensing errors.

Over the last decade there have been improvements in loop design which will improve detection, will reduce adjacent lane falsing and be more accommodating to large trucks whose trailers can be 3-5' above the wire loop. The new loop design is supposed to reliably detect bicycles without causing adjacent lane falsing. These intersection detection systems can easily start at $1 million and go up from there so there hasn't been a rush to upgrade existing systems.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The state of wisconsin passed his just within a year or two...

SUBCHAPTER VI

TRAFFIC SIGNS, SIGNALS AND MARKINGS

346.37

1., a motorcycle, moped, motor

bicycle, or bicycle facing a red signal at an intersection may, after

stopping as required under subd. 1. for not less than 45 seconds,

proceed cautiously through the intersection before the signal turns

green if no other vehicles are present at the intersection to actuate

the signal and the operator of the motorcycle, moped, motor

bicycle, or bicycle reasonably believes the signal is vehicle actuated.

The operator of a motorcycle, moped, motor bicycle, or

bicycle proceeding through a red signal under this subdivision

shall yield the right−of−way to any vehicular traffic, pedestrian,

bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device

proceeding through a green signal at the intersection or lawfully

within a crosswalk or using the intersection.

 
There was a similar bill somewhere a few years ago. I still have a problem with it being implied that anyone is running a red light. There's still a requirement to stop. There's still a requirement to take precautions and wait to determine if the light isn't functioning properly (failing to sense a road-legal vehicle). It's actually more an issue of treating the malfunctioning traffic light as if it were a stop sign. There are quite a few places that already address how to interact with a malfunctioning traffic light. In those cases it's a defense to prosecution. That means taking time in court if you can't discuss it with the officer on the side of the road who chooses to write a ticket.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
an additional issue is red light cameras which have no discression and you still receive the ticket in the mail

I choose to have one of those prism license plate covers...

plate numbers disappear when looked at from an angle

it's been a couple of years with no issues, as officers have stopped me for "other" reasons and looked right at it

 
I've been seeing a lot of intersections that use cameras to detect the presence of a vehicle rather than a loop in the road. Since a computer is required in both systems, the cost can't be much different. It seems like a lot better solution since the camera doesn't care what the vehicle is made of. It also doesn't require cutting up the road surface to install or service.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I was working in the city of Manchester, New Hamster they rebuilt several intersections around our building. After the work was complete there were 3 significant intersections where one or more lanes would not recognize my FJR. On a lark I looked up the city's Highway Department and sent them an email about the vehicle sensing. In a Stunning Turn of Events™ I got a letter back from the man in charge of the Highway Department in less than 2 hours. I provided detailed information about the intersections, lanes and issues. In Stunning Turn of Events II -- by noon the next day the city work crews had readjusted all the intersections. Nobody in the USA was more shocked than I was at noon the following day, when all the intersections worked. The Highway Department guy even wrote back to ask if things were working properly.

In an area that you travel regularly you are not helpless or an eternal victim to the situation; at least make an effort to let someone know. At worst nothing will happen, but sometimes it may actually help and improve things.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In an area that you travel regularly you are not helpless or an eternal victim to the situation; at least make an effort to let someone know. At worst nothing will happen, but sometimes it may actually help and improve things.
Similar to my experience although not quite as Stunning™.

I had a light on my way to work that rarely would trip with my bike. I reported it to the city public works department. In a Moderate Turn of Events™ I got an e-mail back the next day saying that they adjusted a setting and asked to see if it helped any.

It didn't that I could tell, but in a Interesting Coincidence™ I spotted a traffic crew out the next afternoon at the intersection with the control box open. I stopped by and they shared with me how the particular loop was "the older square loop design" and adjusted out as much as they could go without screwing up other stuff.

He had me ride my bike over the loop and gave me thumbs up and thumbs down of where the sweet spot was for sensitivity and that helped me. Since then they overlayed that street and replaced with "round loops" which seem to work far better for us ferrous challenged two-wheelers.

Concur that reporting certainly helps.

 
That's awesome, now if we could only have a stronger lobby for our rights we could get more done nationally. But this is a great start!

 
When I was working in the city of Manchester, New Hamster they rebuilt several intersections around our building. After the work was complete there were 3 significant intersections where one or more lanes would not recognize my FJR. On a lark I looked up the city's Highway Department and sent them an email about the vehicle sensing. In a Stunning Turn of Events™ I got a letter back from the man in charge of the Highway Department in less than 2 hours. I provided detailed information about the intersections, lanes and issues. In Stunning Turn of Events II -- by noon the next day the city work crews had readjusted all the intersections. Nobody in the USA was more shocked than I was at noon the following day, when all the intersections worked. The Highway Department guy even wrote back to ask if things were working properly.

In an area that you travel regularly you are not helpless or an eternal victim to the situation; at least make an effort to let someone know. At worst nothing will happen, but sometimes it may actually help and improve things.
I have done the same thing with numerous intersections near me and in most cases the problem was fixed. Some departments even solicited feedback to ensure their adjustment would work for me. :yahoo: That kind of customer service I really like!

The other reason I notify traffic departments is so that I have a paper or email trail to prove to a judge that I've been proactive in getting problems resolved in case I end up with a ticket down the road. I have no qualms about running a red light that won't change because my reasoning is that it is defective and would be no different than coming across a light with the bulbs out. Standard procedure is to negotiate such an intersection as if it were a 4 way stop.

 
Concur that reporting certainly helps.
Helps, I suppose, if you're The Mayor of the Freaking TownTM :)

When I saw this thread title, figured you posted it about 36 days early. But since it's on the level, maybe next we'll see "Legislature Gives Motorcycle Riders an Extra Ten Miles an Hour on Speed Limits." That'll be nice.

 
I choose to have one of those prism license plate covers. plate numbers disappear when looked at from an angle. it's been a couple of years with no issues, as officers have stopped me for "other" reasons and looked right at it.
they passed a law against them in TX. they can stop you for anything that covers any part of your plate; even dealer frames that cover part of the text at the top or bottom.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In an area that you travel regularly you are not helpless or an eternal victim to the situation; at least make an effort to let someone know. At worst nothing will happen, but sometimes it may actually help and improve things.
Similar to my experience although not quite as Stunning™.

I had a light on my way to work that rarely would trip with my bike. I reported it to the city public works department. In a Moderate Turn of Events™ I got an e-mail back the next day saying that they adjusted a setting and asked to see if it helped any.
I'm lucky enough that the local DOT engineer has two Harleys and a Buell, so he understands and he actually set up a time to meet at the intersection with one of his guys that twiddled the sensitivity as necessary, while my bike was on the spot. It turned out to have a bad signal amp. It was also nice the local paper had a "Road Dog" column that answered local road-related questions and published his number.

Speaking of red-light cameras, one time (at band camp) I scrubbedscrubbedscrubbed the mud off the plate on my NT650 Hawk, and discovered the paint had totally come off, and it had become a pale faded pastel unintelligible from more than 10 feet away. I never got hassled for it, but I've never had the 'nads to do it on purpose.

 
I usually push down on my center stand when stopped at unpopulated left turn light...waiting for the signal. 95/100 times the increased metal is detected by the loop and activates the light.

 
I got pulled over for that once. I waited as long as I was gonna wait, and as soon as I pulled through the intersection along came Mr LEO...pulled me over. I told him that I had waited as long as I was gonna and the light was not gonna change, so I pulled out. The ******* told me that I should have turned around and went another way, I told him that wasn't gonna happen. So I pulled out my trusty get out of jail free badge and...he let me go. ********!!!

 
Top