Good point. I wonder if my left side hearing loss is due to driving with an open car window?
(I was never much for the "Rubber Duckie Convoys."
)
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As close to windshield nirvana as I am going to get
- Thread starter Blind Squirrel
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Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
(I was never much for the "Rubber Duckie Convoys."
)radiummadman
Well-known member
Dan, be glad you are 6'4" and have a problem you can work on. Short people would give up all of their "nirvana" to be tall & good looking.
After watching the posts here I have decided to ride like the dumb motherfucker that I am, be glad I can ride and quit bitchin about things
that make me look like a BMW rider (yes I fart while on the bike, no I have not washed it in 16 months, yes it has scratches on it and no
I do not carry a photo of it in my wallet)
user 28803
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Ha!Good point. I wonder if my left side hearing loss is due to driving with an open car window?
(I was never much for the "Rubber Duckie Convoys."
Well, these days I rarely turn the thing on. Most truckers, myself included, spend their time listening to satellite radio. CBs are pretty quiet these days, really.
Aasland
Depleted
There seems to be some misunderstanding ... I realize I'll never be able to ride without earplugs unless the wind is actually blocked. The V-Stream (in the up position) + spacers + Bell RS-1 comes really really close, but that's just too damn hot on a warm day and takes much of the fun out of motorcycling.
Even when standing in clean air (or on the SV or VFR) it is still too noisy to go without earplugs.
What I'm trying to find is a solution which allows me to listen to music or podcasts comfortably. The Westone CR-1's block about 25 db of the wind noise and with NO windscreen (a very cut down stock one) in smooth air, that is sufficient. But the Cal Sci tinted shorty, although there is no buffeting, is a bit too noisy. Everything else I have tried (short of the V-Stream) is too noisy.
In the past I have used Etymotic ER6i's with my hearing aid post aural canal (PAC) tips and that blocks pretty much everything, but they are hit'n'miss to put in and get uncomfortable after a couple hours, and after a day the tips deform (I have rectangular ear canals). I've got a set of custom earplugs which also block a lot of noise, so much that I can't use the Sena speakers. Thus, the CR-1's which attenuate 25 db are the best thing going at the moment .. if I can find a shield which delivers clean and quiet air.
Even when standing in clean air (or on the SV or VFR) it is still too noisy to go without earplugs.
What I'm trying to find is a solution which allows me to listen to music or podcasts comfortably. The Westone CR-1's block about 25 db of the wind noise and with NO windscreen (a very cut down stock one) in smooth air, that is sufficient. But the Cal Sci tinted shorty, although there is no buffeting, is a bit too noisy. Everything else I have tried (short of the V-Stream) is too noisy.
In the past I have used Etymotic ER6i's with my hearing aid post aural canal (PAC) tips and that blocks pretty much everything, but they are hit'n'miss to put in and get uncomfortable after a couple hours, and after a day the tips deform (I have rectangular ear canals). I've got a set of custom earplugs which also block a lot of noise, so much that I can't use the Sena speakers. Thus, the CR-1's which attenuate 25 db are the best thing going at the moment .. if I can find a shield which delivers clean and quiet air.
KInd'a hi-jacking this windshield thread, aren't we?
As for in-ear sound attenuating earphones vs. helmet speakers and earplugs, for anyone truly concerned about preserving (what's left of) their hearing there is really only one choice, and it's the latter.
Here's my long winded explanation why:
With any noise attenuating ear plug or ear phone, that is all that they can possibly do to the noise; attenuate it. Regardless of how efficient they seem (at first) a certain amount of the noise (and other sound) still gets through the plug. That's why your hearing acclimates to the lower sound levels after you have inserted earplugs for a while, and you are able to hear engine and traffic noises, etc.
The reality of it is that none of the in ear monitors attenuate as well as a good set of 33dBA disposable foam earplugs when correctly inserted. I wish this were not true, as I'd love to have other options. That means that the baseline ambient helmet noise will be a bit higher on the ear phones, but not high enough to be a problem.
The problem comes in when you apply the sound through the ear phones directly into your ear canals. The sound comes through bright and clean. Unlike the helmet noise, it is pleasurable to listen to (even at hearing damaging levels), and you will want to turn up the volume to make it easy to hear the fine sounds over that attenuated wind noise.
This is a problem with in ear monitors even in quiet surroundings. It is pleasurable to damage your hearing. We have an entire generation of kids, now 20 somethings, that have grown up in the iPod generation, who will be in a world of hearing hurt when they age a little bit more. Hisssss! But I digress...
In the case of helmet speakers used with a good set of earplugs, any music sound that you generate will also have to pass through the highly attenuating earplugs, so you will have to generate a whole lot more Sound Pressure Level (SPL) just to hear it over the wind noise. But, after attenuation it will be much lower than the lower SPLs coming from the in-ear monitors. The fact that you have to "pump up the volume" so much, and also that the music passes through the non-linearly attenuating earphones means the sound distortion and fidelity will be considerably worse when it does get to your ears. Not nearly as pleasurable. Turning it up even higher will only increase the distortion, so the incentive to do so isn't there. And even if you did, after being attenuated by 33 dB the sound levels are still safe for your hearing. Those helmet speakers just can't generate enough sound to damage your hearing after being attenuated by 33 dB.
In summary, you will get much better sounding music from in ear monitors, but at a somewhat elevated risk of damaging your hearing. Ultimately, the choice is always yours.
As for in-ear sound attenuating earphones vs. helmet speakers and earplugs, for anyone truly concerned about preserving (what's left of) their hearing there is really only one choice, and it's the latter.
Here's my long winded explanation why:
With any noise attenuating ear plug or ear phone, that is all that they can possibly do to the noise; attenuate it. Regardless of how efficient they seem (at first) a certain amount of the noise (and other sound) still gets through the plug. That's why your hearing acclimates to the lower sound levels after you have inserted earplugs for a while, and you are able to hear engine and traffic noises, etc.
The reality of it is that none of the in ear monitors attenuate as well as a good set of 33dBA disposable foam earplugs when correctly inserted. I wish this were not true, as I'd love to have other options. That means that the baseline ambient helmet noise will be a bit higher on the ear phones, but not high enough to be a problem.
The problem comes in when you apply the sound through the ear phones directly into your ear canals. The sound comes through bright and clean. Unlike the helmet noise, it is pleasurable to listen to (even at hearing damaging levels), and you will want to turn up the volume to make it easy to hear the fine sounds over that attenuated wind noise.
This is a problem with in ear monitors even in quiet surroundings. It is pleasurable to damage your hearing. We have an entire generation of kids, now 20 somethings, that have grown up in the iPod generation, who will be in a world of hearing hurt when they age a little bit more. Hisssss! But I digress...
In the case of helmet speakers used with a good set of earplugs, any music sound that you generate will also have to pass through the highly attenuating earplugs, so you will have to generate a whole lot more Sound Pressure Level (SPL) just to hear it over the wind noise. But, after attenuation it will be much lower than the lower SPLs coming from the in-ear monitors. The fact that you have to "pump up the volume" so much, and also that the music passes through the non-linearly attenuating earphones means the sound distortion and fidelity will be considerably worse when it does get to your ears. Not nearly as pleasurable. Turning it up even higher will only increase the distortion, so the incentive to do so isn't there. And even if you did, after being attenuated by 33 dB the sound levels are still safe for your hearing. Those helmet speakers just can't generate enough sound to damage your hearing after being attenuated by 33 dB.
In summary, you will get much better sounding music from in ear monitors, but at a somewhat elevated risk of damaging your hearing. Ultimately, the choice is always yours.
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Aasland
Depleted
Fred, I appreciate the thought you've put into the topic and your well-written note. I agree with your logic but disagree with your premises.
Nor is this just me ...of the six people in our group who use Sena's:
- 3 experience the same and use isolating in-ear monitors (VFR/VFR/Ninja 1000)
- 1 uses speakers but doesn't wear earplugs :blink: (VFR)
- 1 uses speakers and earplugs but only for music and can't listen to podcasts (SV)
- 1 does and only uses the Sena as an intercom but frequently can't understand us. (DL650)
If I drop down to 29 NRR earplugs then I can sort of make out the music and communications.
At 25 NRR the music can be heard but wind noise starts to be bothersome.
At 15 NRR or so I can listen to podcasts or books on tape but the wind noise is oppressive.
I'm thinking my next step might be to start analyzing the attenuation profiles of various earplugs and see how they affect what I can hear. The Westone Style 49's look promising, but I'm not ready to drop $160 on those yet without having more confidence that they will work .. after all, can't re-sell them like I can with windshields.
I generally agree, but as a side-note the Etymotic ER6i's with tips that seal deep in the ear canal attenuate far more than any earplug I have used. Unfortunately the tips are made by Sebotek, cost $10 each, aren't comfy after a day or two, and I've had friends go on fishing expeditions in my ears when they come off.
And this is the first premise which I disagree with. I'm smart enough to not crank it. With the in-ear monitors I find I listen to music and podcasts at about the same level regardless whether I am sitting at my desk or on the bike. I resist the urge to crank it.
This is the second premise I disagree with. If I wear the 33+ NRR earplugs I can faintly hear the Sena speakers ... sitting at my desk with the speakers pressed against my ears. On the bike it is a lost cause.
Nor is this just me ...of the six people in our group who use Sena's:
- 3 experience the same and use isolating in-ear monitors (VFR/VFR/Ninja 1000)
- 1 uses speakers but doesn't wear earplugs :blink: (VFR)
- 1 uses speakers and earplugs but only for music and can't listen to podcasts (SV)
- 1 does and only uses the Sena as an intercom but frequently can't understand us. (DL650)
If I drop down to 29 NRR earplugs then I can sort of make out the music and communications.
At 25 NRR the music can be heard but wind noise starts to be bothersome.
At 15 NRR or so I can listen to podcasts or books on tape but the wind noise is oppressive.
I'm thinking my next step might be to start analyzing the attenuation profiles of various earplugs and see how they affect what I can hear. The Westone Style 49's look promising, but I'm not ready to drop $160 on those yet without having more confidence that they will work .. after all, can't re-sell them like I can with windshields.
I knew somebody would say that. Thing is, I don't think it is a matter of being smart or not. You can quite easily exceed your tolerance without even knowing it. But as I said, to each his own.
I'll also say that how well the Er6i seals, unlike the cheap foam earplugs, is highly dependent on your ear canal shapes and sizes. If you can get a good seal then it is only a comfort issue. But many people can't even get a good seal. Same is true for the custom made earplugs / monitors that cost exorbitant amounts of money. Works for some people, not so well for others.
The problem you describe above sure seems to me like the Sena just can't generate enough volume for you. Are these the SMH-10 headsets? If so, that is very disappointing to hear. I had heard from others that they had a higher volume output than some of the other bluetooth headsets. To use the 33 DbA earplugs you would need to use something with a more powerful audio amplifier output like an Autocom or Starcom. Of course that means running wires etc.
Don2334
Well-known member
I have a +3 Rifle. My bike came with the oem windshield with a laminar lip. has anyone tried the rifle with a laminar lip. Any suggestions as to how to try it with out drilling the Rifle?
Don
Don
We are talking 1st gen apples to 2nd gen oranges, but... Yes, I have successfully stuck my Laminar Lip to my 1st gen Rifle Sport (which is a +2 1/2" tall shield), and while it is not pretty, it does work as expected.
I ordered some extra scotchlock (or whatever those things are called) mega-velcro dots from Laminar to stick it on the second shield. My primary is my Ahamay Touring.
I ordered some extra scotchlock (or whatever those things are called) mega-velcro dots from Laminar to stick it on the second shield. My primary is my Ahamay Touring.
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Aasland
Depleted
That's very similar to my experience with the Sena and earplugs. When I was shopping for BT headsets to put on my Nolan N103, I tried the Nolan system (almost useless at full volume while in the bike show) and a couple other mainstream systems (sorry, can't remember brand). None had sufficient volume. The Sena puts out enough volume to be dangerous and painful without earplugs, but it's simply too quiet with the 33db Max plugs I used to wear. I stepped back to the EAR brand yellow foam 29db plugs and this works for me to listen to music when commuting at 70mph behind my CB +2 flip shield raised up.
LAF
Well-known member
I held off on this MRA review until I got a few thousand miles on it and the C3 helmet.
First as a Summer shield I feel it is second to none, period.
Many reasons for this but foremost is adjust-ability.
I have basically three riding positions, four is you consider the "slouch" position that sometimes creeps in. I will explain.
First is balls of the feet on the pegs, heels tucked in, knees gripping the tank, slight lean onto the arms and is mainly my haul the mail position.
Second is resting on the arch of my feet, legs open a bit, and Yoda position of arched back, no weight on my arm or wrists, very light grip.
Third is feet on the Highway pegs, leaned back a bit, light grip, with no weight on wrists.
Forth is the slouch position, where all the master Yoda Ridding Position goes out the window.
This shield will cover all the first three in a set position and then using the windshield raise and lower switch. The slouch position is really on its own and would need to be adjusted on the MRA shield.
Of course the helmet is going to affect all this so this is all with a C3. I have a J1 on order because I wore my last one out and is my real summer helmet so I will be going over this all again with it when it arrives.
The C3 is unique in that the visor must be snapped closed to vent. To achieve this the shield must go low enough to allow all breathing ports free flow air. The chin vent must be in the air flow.
What makes this shield nice is the tunnel formed where the two part meet allows you to direct air at your vents while keeping the top part above to stop buffeting of the helmet. Being able to adjust that height is what makes this shield great.
All I can say is I like this shield, is well worth the money spent for a summer shield. It is very adjustable, and it even looks good in the bargain.
Now we will see how it does with the J1 when it arrives. For those of you who do not know what a J1 looks like here is a link.
J1 WebBikeWorld
First as a Summer shield I feel it is second to none, period.
Many reasons for this but foremost is adjust-ability.
I have basically three riding positions, four is you consider the "slouch" position that sometimes creeps in. I will explain.
First is balls of the feet on the pegs, heels tucked in, knees gripping the tank, slight lean onto the arms and is mainly my haul the mail position.
Second is resting on the arch of my feet, legs open a bit, and Yoda position of arched back, no weight on my arm or wrists, very light grip.
Third is feet on the Highway pegs, leaned back a bit, light grip, with no weight on wrists.
Forth is the slouch position, where all the master Yoda Ridding Position goes out the window.
This shield will cover all the first three in a set position and then using the windshield raise and lower switch. The slouch position is really on its own and would need to be adjusted on the MRA shield.
Of course the helmet is going to affect all this so this is all with a C3. I have a J1 on order because I wore my last one out and is my real summer helmet so I will be going over this all again with it when it arrives.
The C3 is unique in that the visor must be snapped closed to vent. To achieve this the shield must go low enough to allow all breathing ports free flow air. The chin vent must be in the air flow.
What makes this shield nice is the tunnel formed where the two part meet allows you to direct air at your vents while keeping the top part above to stop buffeting of the helmet. Being able to adjust that height is what makes this shield great.
All I can say is I like this shield, is well worth the money spent for a summer shield. It is very adjustable, and it even looks good in the bargain.
Now we will see how it does with the J1 when it arrives. For those of you who do not know what a J1 looks like here is a link.
J1 WebBikeWorld
Aasland
Depleted
LAF
Well-known member
Never tried that, I will though just for grins and giggles.
It gives you both jacket and helmet.
Igoslo
Member
In this old post a couple people mention smaller screens. I've considered cutting 3" off my stock screen but if there are aftermarket small screens I'd rather do that. Suggestions?
redneckj
Well-known member
you can get a 15" tall screen from CeeBaileys.
https://www.ceebaileys.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/Yamaha-FJR-1300-2013-Up-Motorcycle-Windshield/2013FJR_005.jpg?lr=t&bw=1000&w=1000&bh=1000&h=1000
Igoslo
Member
Thanks! That will do nicely
Before you go spending big money on a shorter windshield, have you tried tipping it back further with some spacers? There is a thread running on here about 2nd Gen Windshield Tuning that you might be interested in.
Never having owned a 2nd Gen I don't know what's involved, but that has been my answer for my 1st and 3rd Gens for increased airflow in summer without hacking any windshields off.
Never having owned a 2nd Gen I don't know what's involved, but that has been my answer for my 1st and 3rd Gens for increased airflow in summer without hacking any windshields off.
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Igoslo
Member
Thanks for the suggestion on the tilt. Upon looking at it, it seems that putting spacers between the plastic and the bracket would only put stress on the sheild.
Maybe other generations have a different mounting system. I already ordered the 15" shield from Ceebaileys, just waiting for it to show up now.
Maybe other generations have a different mounting system. I already ordered the 15" shield from Ceebaileys, just waiting for it to show up now.
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The spacers don't touch the windshield. Remove the windshield completely. Then remove the two 10mm bolts on the mounting bracket and loosen the allen head screws on the side of the bracket. The spacers go under the bracket and then the (longer if necessary) 10mm bolts go back through the bracket and the spacers. Then re-tighten the bracket side screws and reattach the windshield. I have put spacers as large as 0.6" in there and that provides quite a change in the rake. The windshield mounts on the same bracket which is now just tilted back further.
