Bad ABS hydraulic unit/module 2007A, per Yamaha dealer

[TownsendsFJR1300]

How is a 2007 a new motorcycle?

I thought the same thing, then just before posting, ding, ding, ding!!!

On another forum, abbreviations just came up and can make things difficult.

What's W10? I didn't know...

Windows 10...

 

[HotRodZilla]

Fred, M/C is "Master Cylinder." Gotta keep up with the abbreviations. Haha.

To the OP, I'm wondering if the noise from your ABS block isn't because your air problem is in the block. I know this was discussed extensively a couple years ago, and the consensus was that getting air out of the block was a PITA. Really hope you get it figured out soon. I'm sure it's frustrating!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

When I was looking at a 13 model to buy, I inquired about bleeding the system (after say, I re-sealed the calipers).

They said it was a PIA, (forgot if they said they used a specific tool) and not a do it yourself-er project...

 

[rcpd807]

To the OP, I'm wondering if the noise from your ABS block isn't because your air problem is in the block. I know this was discussed extensively a couple years ago, and the consensus was that getting air out of the block was a PITA. Really hope you get it figured out soon. I'm sure it's frustrating!

Frustrating beyond believe. If anyone has a link to the thread HotRodZilla is referring to, please post it.

 

[hppants]

Was the master cylinder "bench bled" before it was installed?

 

[Fred W]

Note to self: M/C is Master/Cylinder, not Motor/Cycle. :foreheadslap:

 

[Mihalis fjr]

In the service manual,if you see,the abs unit has a buffer chamber inside.Two,one for the front and one for the rear.If this thing has stuck or damaged for a reason,corroded etc...Can cause these symptoms.

Happened to a friend from Cyprus.His 04 fjr had the same symptom with yours.He replaced the unit but he opened(cut)the old unit to see what was wrong inside.He found that the buffer chamber was stuck (retracted)back in his bore,''it looks like a piston'' and has a spring in the back side of the piston.Happened from very old and dirty brake fluid 4+years old..

I don't know if the same thing happens in yours..A thought....

 

[HotRodZilla]

Rcpd807, I looked for related threads, and there's a ton of them. You'd have to sift through them, but mostly, everyone fussed with them until they got firm brakes again. I know most of us have said the ABS module probably isn't your problem, but Mihalis may be on to something.

Have you installed SpeedBleeders yet? They're not magic, but they'll eliminate having to open and close the Bleeders every time the lever is pushed. They'll make it easier to focus on what you're seeing instead if timing the dammed wrench. Just a thought. IF you don't have them and do get them, you'll need 5. Three for the front calipers, one for the rear and one for the clutch.

I did see where someone mentioned moving the calipers above the MC (master cylinder) and ended up getting air out. At this point, I think I'd try to find me a brake shop that knows something about this and had the ability to reverse bleed the system. Maybe another Yamaha dealership if you have to. Hell, maybe even a BMW place if they'll help you out. BMW's brakes can be difficult, so maybe they'll have some insight. If all else fails, look for a new ABS block on Amazon or eBay and swap them out. You may get lucky.

 

[rcpd807]

To answer a few questions from above.

The new master cylinder was not "bench bled", to be honest I am not sure what you are referring to.

I do have speed bleeders installed and did before this happened.

Looks to be quite a few videos on how to reverse bleed motorcycle brakes on youtube. I am going to check those out. I could see where reverse bleeding could solve my problem if air is trapped.

 

[JamesK]

To answer a few questions from above.
The new master cylinder was not "bench bled", to be honest I am not sure what you are referring to.

I do have speed bleeders installed and did before this happened.

Looks to be quite a few videos on how to reverse bleed motorcycle brakes on youtube. I am going to check those out. I could see where reverse bleeding could solve my problem if air is trapped.

Generally bench bleeding an MC or Calipers after a rebuild significantly reduces the amount of on-the-bike bleeding required. Basically you try to eliminate as many air bubbles out of the MC or Caliper prior to installation by filling them with brake fluid as much as possible to limit the amount of air being introduced into the system...

 

[hppants]

I've dealt with a similar problem on a cage brake system by removing the newly replaced M/C, bench bleeding it, and then re-installing and re-bleeding the entire braking system. I can't write intelligently about it, but some air was entrapped within the hydraulic system of the M/C itself, and conventional bleeding could not provide enough pressure (vacuum) to pull the air into a brake line, through the proportional valve, through a caliper, and out the bleeder. As soon as I plumbed the temporary lines back to the reservoir, and started pushing on the M/C piston, TONS of air was pushed out. Once re-installed, it was about 10 minutes of conventional bleeding and the job was done.

Now, I have no idea if that would (or could) work on the motorcycle. But the principles seem the same and I can't see how it can hurt to try.

This video does an excellent job of explaining exactly what I did - down to the minute detail:



I believe you mentioned that you have a mitey vac vacuum pump - if so, the hoses/fittings that come with that kit should give you what you need to do a bench bleed. If not, the hardware store should have it.

A word of caution!!!! Brake fluid (DOT 4 and below) EATS anything that is painted. If you decide to try this method, then you will be reinstalling your M/C full of fluid. When you remove whatever you have chosen to use as a plug from the line bore to install the brake line, some fluid is going to leak out. Keeping the M/C cap screwed on should reduce the amount of fluid that leaks out because there should be a slight vacuum on top of the fluid within the M/C. None the less, some fluid will leak out. In the light - VERY IMPORTANT - VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!! - you will want to protect and cover anything that is painted and that brake fluid could come into contact with. Things such as your tank, fender, etc. Have a wet micro-towel handy on your seat. If you happen to get a drop of brake fluid on your painted surface, you can quickly wipe it up before it has a chance to eat your paint. Don't forget to wax everything after the job is done. PLEASE (PLEASE!!!!) heed this - I've seen some pretty nasty disasters from spilt brake fluid.

 

[JamesK]

As I might have mentioned earlier, in the past when I did the seal replacement on my calipers I made the mistake of not bench bleeding them. Lengthy manual and Mytivac sessions were insufficient to properly bleed the system.

I went to a bike shop where they used a more powerful bleeding setup which was using the shop compressor that was able to finish off the bleeding job in only a few minutes. This could be another idea you could try to pursue before removing everything again.

You could also try using one of these pneumatic DYI units.

#2 Central Pneumatic 92924 Vacuum Brake Bleeder

 

[RossKean]

Did this ever get solved??? Enquiring minds need to know!!

 

[odot]

No it did not get solved.......he did not trade the lemon in for an 05 model.

 

[RossKean]

Would you be referring to a non-ABS '05 or one with a non-functioning ABS block?

 

[rcpd807]

Did this ever get solved??? Enquiring minds need to know!!

YES!!!!! Rayzerman19 had an ABS block for a 2007. Intech hosted a tech day this past weekend and I pulled my bike to Intech's house. Rayzerman19 quickly dove into diagnostic mode and the bleeding of brake fluid from every possible hole started. After being fairly certain the ABS block was the problem, we switched it out with the different one. After getting all the air out of the system.......I HAD BRAKES AGAIN!!!!!

Rayzerman is going to attempt to cut open the old ABS block to see if he can pinpoint exactly what was defective.

Needless to say, I was like a kid on Christmas morning. I cannot thank Rayzerman, Intech, and Bill (not sure what his handle is) for going out of there way to help someone they had never met before just because I was a fellow FJR rider and needed help.

I am now back up and riding.

 

[Fred W]

Well, that's both good and bad news. Good for you to have your ABS and brakes functioning again.

Bad for all of the rest of us as this is now "officially" not restricted to only happening on 1st Gen ABS models.

Flush those brakes boys (and gurlz) !

 

[HotRodZilla]

Again...These ABS failures need to be reported to Yamaha and NHTSA. If these units are going to fail, there needs to be a recall. ABS is a massive safety item, and finding out the ABS does not work while trying to avoid a crash, only to have a wheel lock up and take the bike down anyway will lead to lawsuits.

I don't have to "test" the ABS in my vehicles on a periodic basis, so I shouldn't have to do it on my MC. You guys gotta step up.

 

[RossKean]

When the loss of ABS means that you can still use your brakes but without antilock function, it is dangerous but not likely to kill you if have good control and instincts. If tha ABS failure results in complete loss of braking without warning, that becomes pretty serious. This is the first I have heard about a Gen II failure. I agree with HRZ that it needs to be reported.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

When the loss of ABS means that you can still use your brakes but without antilock function, it is dangerous but not likely to kill you if have good control and instincts. If tha ABS failure results in complete loss of braking without warning, that becomes pretty serious. This is the first I have heard about a Gen II failure. I agree with HRZ that it needs to be reported.

''This is the first I have heard about a Gen II failure''

Unfortunately it isn't the first...''Donal's'' ABS had an issue and finaly he replaced the unit.