Battery Charger

[donaldb]

I was reading my owners manuel. It said not to use a standard battery charger. I checked the forum search function and I found a subject line "battery tender" but it really did not explain why a regular battery charger cannot be used. The OEM battery is a sealed battery. What damage could be done to the battery it's self or electrical system if a regular charger were to be used?, particularly if the charger has a trickle charge setting? If this is totally unacceptable what kind of charger do I need? Thanx-Bruce <_<

 

[Geezer]

You need the Battery Tender Plus, not the regular battery tender. Of course there are other chargers that will work also. It has something to do with the voltage requirements but I can't find the information that explains it.

 

[SkooterG]

Unfortunately, what type of charger to get is largely a matter of opinion, much like oil and tire threads. Everybody is about to tell you how great THEIR charger is.......

So I will start first.

I have a Yuasa charger, recommended my Yammie dealer, that is made for newer sealed batteries: Yuasa 900mA charger (The 3rd one down)

And I also have a BatteryMinder, which I think is pretty trick, assuming their claims are not B.S. - BatteryMinder

Here is some info to digest: Battery and charging info

I would recommend getting a decent quality motorcycle "smartcharger" of whatever flavor you prefer. I personally like to keep the charging amperage at 1 amp or below for motorcycle batteries, like both of the above do.

Good luck!

 

[donaldb]

Thanx SkooterG

 

[radman]

I also have the Yuasa, it's worked perfectly on Frank for over a year now.

 

[donaldb]

Most of us older thin skined warm blooded mammals of the south don't take kindly to cold morning temps. I will not be riding as much for the next few months, want to make sure I get the right tool for the job. My last bike was a vstar, I hooked up my ole standard charger and put it on trickle charge and it did just fine. Looks like I moved out of the world of cheap bikes. :huh:

 

[Bike Effects]

Check this one out if you care too. Qualifies for the forum discount and is in stock.

 

[vtcornercarver]

Ditto on the battery tender plus for AGM or absorbed glass matt batteries, which is another word for sealed or maintenance free batteries. I think the battery tender plus is the most readily available charger at most bike shops, and not too expensive. VT

 

[jaybird]

At the risk of sounding uninformed (ie; stupid....and still a "FNG"...) if you can ride once a week (or at least every other week) during winter, even if just for 15 minutes, is it still a good idea (or necessary) to have a charger?? Thanks, Jay

 

[Windjammer]

At the risk of sounding uninformed (ie; stupid....and still a "FNG"...) if you can ride once a week (or at least every other week) during winter, even if just for 15 minutes, is it still a good idea (or necessary) to have a charger??  Thanks, Jay

No, a charger should only be required for "long term storage", such as storing over the winter or if the bike will sit for more than 3-4 weeks at a time.

The older battery chargers with a "trickle charge" feature will still charge the FJR's battery, the problem is that they usually shorten battery life by charging at an amperage rating that is too high for the smaller maintenance free batteries.

 

[moby one]

My neighbors have the battery tender plus and have used them for a few years and highly recommend them.

What about other considerations regarding winter storage? ie fuel. I was planning on just hooking up the battery tender and adding some stabil and forget about it till spring. good or bad move?

 

[SkooterG]

At the risk of sounding uninformed (ie; stupid....and still a "FNG"...) if you can ride once a week (or at least every other week) during winter, even if just for 15 minutes, is it still a good idea (or necessary) to have a charger??  Thanks, Jay

No, a charger should only be required for "long term storage", such as storing over the winter or if the bike will sit for more than 3-4 weeks at a time.

The older battery chargers with a "trickle charge" feature will still charge the FJR's battery, the problem is that they usually shorten battery life by charging at an amperage rating that is too high for the smaller maintenance free batteries.

Ack!!! I totally disagree.

Yes, really old chargers, or chargers not meant for motorcycles can "cook" a battery if left on the battery for any length of time, but we are talking "really old" chargers here. Any modern decent charger will revert to a small (a few milliamps) "trickle", or "float" charge to maintain the battery once fully charged. This trickle or float charge is not harmful to the battery - i.e. it won't "cook" it.

Also, If not running for more than a couple days, I would hook a charger up to it. The primary reason for battery failure is sulfation. Sulfation is the formation of lead sulphate crystals on the battery plates. When the crystals form on the plates, the battery cannot be fully charged or give full power. Sulfation occurrs whenever the battery is not FULLY charged. Since a battery self-discharges over time, I believe it is beneficial to keep a charger on the battery when not in use for more than a couple days. With a charger keeping the battery fully charged, you are not getting the sulfation you would otherwise.

Leaving a battery off charger for a week or two surely will not kill it, but I believe if you take care of your battery and avoid sulfation, then it will last XX% longer.

What about other considerations regarding winter storage? ie fuel. I was planning on just hooking up the battery tender and adding some stabil and forget about it till spring. good or bad move?

Good move. That's all I would do. I would just make sure you run the engine with the Stabil mixed gas for a few minutes to make sure it is circulated through the fuel system and injectors. Other than that, a fresh oil change is always recommended prior to storage.

 

[moby one]

What about other considerations regarding winter storage? ie fuel. I was planning on just hooking up the battery tender and adding some stabil and forget about it till spring. good or bad move?

Good move. That's all I would do. I would just make sure you run the engine with the Stabil mixed gas for a few minutes to make sure it is circulated through the fuel system and injectors. Other than that, a fresh oil change is always recommended prior to storage.

Thanks SkooterG,

I just picked up my mobil 1 and pure one combo. Looks like this weekend will be the last chance for me to ride and circ some stabil then off to the heated storage area. My insurance expires on Tuesday anyway.

 

[Yambone]

if you can ride once a week (or at least every other week) during winter, even if just for 15 minutes, is it still a good idea (or necessary) to have a charger??

With all of the electronics packed into this bike, I don't think it is good to try to push the limits of the FJR battery, although I did this the first winter with my '04. What a pain, battling the unknown weather steaks of ice and cold, sneaking in a ride here and there, wondering if that was enough for the damn battery, worrying about the next storm! I think I went 4 weeks without a good ride, and still got it to fire okay, but not doing it any favors. For you in Virginia, this may not be as much of an issue as those of us in fringe winter climes. h34r:
There are some great products that work well for bikes that are laid up awhile. A battery tender of some sort is a key ingredient to ride whenever. It won't hurt anything to be plugged in for a day, a week or a winter to a dedicated 'tender.'

I got the BatteryMinder recommended by Craig and SkooterG, similar to the Battery Tenders and other models. It has kept me charged and ready...whenever... got mine here with good service:BatteryMinder

Its a great Christmas present for anyone who has a vehicle that just sits around for any extended period of time, IMO.

One final side note: the problem of trying to run a bike on occasion to keep battery charged might not be a good idea for the fuel system. IMO, it is a BAD idea to run the engine for a short spell every week or so, unless you get out on the road and really warm things up (see/find other thread on this topic).

The FJR begs to be ridden and it WILL stretch your winter riding. For those in *milder* climates, keep it charged, look for the weather window (avoid ice), and you'll be glad when you get out there in that cold sheeeooooottt ride!

 

[yanktar]

I had more BatteryTenders boil batteries or fail than I can count. I went to the Sears Craftsman clone of the B/T and have been completely happy with them for many years.

The early ones didn't have switchs or removable cables--that was a pain but I rewired them with failed B/Ts!

The latest has all the required adapters, removeable cables etc. Use that one on the FJR but cut the wires up anyway--to use the unswitched Powelet outlet for the charging.

Every one of the Sears B/T clones I've used is still running, some as long as 10 years, without battery damage.

 

[JimV]

I have a newer Yuasa Smartshot charger but I have the 1.5 Amp version that I bought for my Kawi Nomad. It has all the smart features that you would want but it does charge at 1.5 Amps which was the specified charging voltage for the bigger cruiser battery.

So, my question: Should I get rid of it and get the 900 mA version for the Feej or am I OK?



Yuasa Battery Chargers

Cheers,

Jim

 

[FJRottie]

The common rule is the 20% rule.

You need a charger/tender where the maximum current in amps is less than 20% of the Ah rating.

The rating of the FJR stock battery is 12.0 Ah

The maximum amps of your charger/tender should be 2.4 for the FJR.

I would say your 1.5 is fine.

On a side note, last year my battery sat for 5 months. I don't recommend that, but my FJR started with the first flick.

 

[Tom of VA]

I bought a Battery Tender Plus a couple of seasons ago. Since, I have never had any troubles from my bikes over the winter. With the BT plus I've never seen any overheating issues. I even used it on my lawn tractor and now I don't have to buy a new tractor battery every spring.

 

[torch]

And I also have a BatteryMinder, which I think is pretty trick, assuming their claims are not B.S. -  BatteryMinder

There are conflicting studies about these sorts of high-frequency chargers. Some show a significant recovery rate, others are less convincing. All the ones I have read are based on recovering typical flooded-cell LA batteries -- I don't know of any independent studies of use on AGM batteries.

BTW folks, for long-term storage of a fully charged battery, what is important is the maintenance voltage of the charger, not the maximum current rating. Maximum current rating is a concern when charging a dead battery. For sulphation free storage without boiling, it is important to keep the battery at the correct voltage for the storage temperature so all you need is a few hundred milliamps capacity -- enough to keep up with parasitic loads like the clock or alarm system.

A typical recommended optimum maintenance voltage for an AGM at 25°C (80°F) is 13.8v -- a 1/2v or so higher than for a regular floooded-cell battery. Note that I specified a temperature. Ideally, the voltage should be compensated as the temperature changes. Lower temperatures need higher voltages. At, say, -20C (0°F) , the voltage should actually be 13.94 volts. Temperature compensation is a feature available in some professional chargers, but not in any home type charger I am aware of (temperature protected is a different issue and is available).

Published float voltages for some of the chargers mentioned above:

Battery Tender -- 13.2 volts

BatteryMINDer -- 13.4 volts

Optimate 3 -- 13.6 volts.

None of the maintainers are optimised for the AGM requirements but then none of them will over-charge a regular flooded cell battery either. Note that there are 3 different versions of the Optimate 3 out there. The original version apparently had a float voltage of 13.8volts but Techmate (the manufacturer) dropped that to 13.6 volts "In fact we reduced the OptiMate’s float voltage which was originally 13,8V, to 13,6V, because of concerns that 13,8V might be too high for warm countries such as Australia and South-Western USA states." I don't know what year that change was made, but in 2001, they changed the algorithym again to provide compensation for parasitic loads.

On a personal note, I have an Optimate 3. It is one of the pre-2001 models and I ended up with a sulphated FJR battery after 2 winters of storage. The charger was not capable of keeping up with the parasitic load in the typical -30 to -40°C temperatures around here. I think it will be ok if I take the battery out of the bike and store it in the basement instead.

I also have had a BatteryMINDer running it's desulphation mode on a sulphated flooded-cell motorcycle battery for about 5 weeks now. There has been no measureable improvement in the cold cranking amps capacity (one indicator of sulphation).

I plan to try it out on the sulphated FJR battery this winter, just to see how an AGM fairs with the high-frequency pulse charging.