below 3000 rpm

[Mr_Canoehead]

Almost sounds like the timing chain skipped a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket. When I did that at my first valve adjustment most of the symptoms you describe are spot on.

That could be it - I wondered about that and JB said that a valve check/adjust had been performed right before he bought it. We may have to take the valve and timing covers off and check.

 

[RossKean]

...Which is one of the reasons I asked "Did this start after any particular service? Throttle body synchronization (TBS) or valve clearance check/adjust." (Post #7)

Getting ALL the information before digging in can save a lot of heartache, skinned knuckles, wasted time and wasted money! When new to a bike, sometimes the biggest problem is not knowing what you don't know - things you might not even consider if you didn't have first-hand (or second-hand) experience.

I hope that this is the issue - sounds like it is a significant possibility and it can be an easy fix. If they screwed up the timing, I think I would run some feeler gauges under the cam lobes again as a check when you have it opened up again. If they got the timing wrong, I wouldn't assume they did the valve check right!! Note: If timing is off, the OP is going to be THRILLED with the difference once it is fixed!!

Note: If the cam chain tensioner is the old (original) style, now would be a good time to change it. I think they went to the "blue dot" version sometime during the 2007 model year (my '07 had the old version).

Good Luck!

Kudos to Mr_Canoehead for helping out the new guy!!

 

[audiowize]

This reminds me of riding FJRWalker's bike around my neighborhood before we redid the valve timing. Everything was totally out of whack and laggy until you got the engine RPMs up, then the bike would sort of try to take off, but it was still way down on power.

Do note in the FSM that the diagram with the cam lobe orientation shows the lobes for cylinder #1 (furthest from the cam chain). For checking timing, I would get those lobes pointed toward each other properly (and the dots by the cam sprockets both facing straight up), then look at the crank shaft alignment under the peanut cover.

 

[Factor]

I am REALLY curious on how this turned out. Did you ever take a look at the timing?

I ask because I just got a 2009 that stumbles/misfires below 4000k and then takes off like a rocket above. Any gear, any temp. The bike has sat for much of the last 5 years. I ran a can of Seafoam but after 2 tanks of fuel it still hasn't cleaned up. Evidently I'm going to learn how to pull all the plastic off.

 

[RossKean]

Timing won't spontaneously go "off". It is distressingly easy to have it happen anytime you slacken the timing chain. Typically during a valve clearance adjustment or the replacement of a cam chain tensioner. What is the maintenance history of this bike? Could be other stuff ranging from bad coil, bad or loose ignition wires, gummed up fuel injectors, to cruddy sparkplugs. Might even have a rodent nest in the air filter restricting flow. Starting problems?

An issue a number of people have encountered is a partially plugged hose coming off the MAP sensor. See post #7 and others. Includes a link to my experience with this issue.

 

[Factor]

I hate to hijack a thread (ok, at least I said that). I don't have the details of prior work but I know no expense was spared on professional maintenance up to about 5 years ago. From that point on it really hasn't been ridden more than 20 or 30 times, but I don't think it saw a shop in that time period either. I honestly don't think it's off on the timing as I can't imagine it pulling any harder than it is over 5K. The battery is brand new and there are three trouble codes stored - but I don't know how long they've been in there (12, 30 and 70). Crankshaft sensor, tilt, and engine idle stop. Sounds like someone tipped it over, left it idling and heck if I know about the crankshaft sensor but I haven't seen an active code in the 8 hours I've been riding it since I've got it.

I did read that post on the plugged hose. I'll be digging underneath the panels shortly and get it sorted out.

 

[RossKean]

When the thread has been inactive for over a half year, it can't really be called a hijack. In fact, with a similar issue, it reduces the repetition.

Check out the hose and a few of the other things mentioned and get back to us (plugged MAP hose normally returns a 14 fault code). This bike is pretty easy to work on. By the way, don't necessarily assume that because the bike was maintained professionally that it was done right!!

Clear the codes and see if any come back.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

Update for those following/asking: We checked all the obvious things (battery, hoses, TPS and MAP sensors, TB sync, etc). It ran better but not near as smooth as mine. Something is still amiss.

JBFJR is a snowbird and went on his winter retreat and put the bike away for the winter; so we agreed to get back together in the spring and check the cam timing and valve clearances. He had the valves adjusted by the PO (a mechanic) before purchase, so I'm thinking that is likely the issue. We'll replace the CCT at the same time with a new model. I sent him a parts list to purchase on his travels, since parts are way cheaper in the US than Canada.

I'll update this thread when we get together next.

 

[Factor]

I can update my endeavors as well. This "new to me" bike also came with an MC-Cruise vacuum actuated cruise control. It wasn't engaging and I suspected it was due to sitting idle for so long as well as having 10% ethanol fuel being pumped through it. I contacted the manufacturer for info, and they actually called me within 2 minutes and walked me through the CC diagnostics on the bike. He also thought it was a stuck solenoid and sent the info immediately.

I got that cleaned up and started to look at the pressure sensor hoses - all clear. I also checked the TBI synch - all good. Not wanting to dig into the valve cover, I put it all back together and crossed my fingers. It did stumble at first but within 5 minutes of riding it was smooth running from 1k rpm on up. Cruise control also works again.

I'm not sure if it was the stuck solenoid in the cruise control vacuum actuator that was causing the stumbling or it was just me bumping plugs and spraying carb cleaner into pressure ports. Either way, I'm good with it.

Thanks for the help!

 

[RossKean]

I can update my endeavors as well. This "new to me" bike also came with an MC-Cruise vacuum actuated cruise control. It wasn't engaging and I suspected it was due to sitting idle for so long as well as having 10% ethanol fuel being pumped through it. I contacted the manufacturer for info, and they actually called me within 2 minutes and walked me through the CC diagnostics on the bike. He also thought it was a stuck solenoid and sent the info immediately.
I got that cleaned up and started to look at the pressure sensor hoses - all clear. I also checked the TBI synch - all good. Not wanting to dig into the valve cover, I put it all back together and crossed my fingers. It did stumble at first but within 5 minutes of riding it was smooth running from 1k rpm on up. Cruise control also works again.

I'm not sure if it was the stuck solenoid in the cruise control vacuum actuator that was causing the stumbling or it was just me bumping plugs and spraying carb cleaner into pressure ports. Either way, I'm good with it.

Thanks for the help!

Any chance the messed up CC resulted in a vacuum leak? That would seriously screw up operation for sure. Especially at low RPM.

 

[Factor]

All the hoses and connections checked out, both for the CC and the pressure lines. I may be wrong but it looked like the solenoid got stuck in the "closed" setting and that shouldn't have resulted in a vacuum leak.

But I am not too proud to admit I have a fair number of fixes just by banging things around.

 

[JBfjr]

Some of you might remember in August 2018 I posted this problem , below 3000 rpm it would be hard to rev and get going, coughing and farting. Idle rpm was so low it would stall when I stopped . once over 3000 rpm the bike ran good, also the plugs showed it running very rich. So our fellow fjr member Ian ( Mr Canoe Head ) got together to work on the bike again last week. This time we changed the cam chain tensioner and that improved the idling somewhat but still wasn,t 100 % so off comes the valve cover to check valve spacing and timing . Spacing was in spec but closer examination of the valve timing indicated both cams were one sprocket toothe out, creating I think a retard condition . So out comes the tensioner again and that enabled us to move both cams to the timing marks at TDC . End of Problem! including the running rich condition . This problem was caused by the previous owner who told me he had set up the valve spacing . Thanks to all of you who inputted in this problem and Ian who shed some sweat over the my bike .

 

[rbentnail]

Almost sounds like the timing chain skipped a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket. When I did that at my first valve adjustment most of the symptoms you describe are spot on.

Bazinga! Thanks for coming back and letting us know. I'm feeling pretty darn good about myself today!!

 

[domaged]

@JBfjr @rbentnail Just wondering if you could help me know how to tell if the timing has skipped.
My 01 is showing the exact same symptoms described above. I've got CCT on order, but if the timing is out I don't know how to tell / get it back right. Never attempted anything like this before so really appreciate any guidance before I start taking things apart.

hope you're still using the forum!

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

@JBfjr @rbentnail Just wondering if you could help me know how to tell if the timing has skipped.
My 01 is showing the exact same symptoms described above. I've got CCT on order, but if the timing is out I don't know how to tell / get it back right. Never attempted anything like this before so really appreciate any guidance before I start taking things apart.

hope you're still using the forum!

I'm the member who helped jbfjr with the wrenching. I don't think he's on here any more (he bought an FJ-09).

If you follow the valve adjustment procedure, you can check whether everything is lined up. There are marks on the timing gear for TDC and on the cams. In his case we saw the problems as soon as we took off the timing gear cover.

Let me know if I can help.

 

[domaged]

I'm the member who helped jbfjr with the wrenching. I don't think he's on here any more (he bought an FJ-09).

If you follow the valve adjustment procedure, you can check whether everything is lined up. There are marks on the timing gear for TDC and on the cams. In his case we saw the problems as soon as we took off the timing gear cover.

Let me know if I can help.

Amazing, thanks for getting in touch.
How hard of a job is it? I've I've never opened an engine before and the thought scares me a bit. I understand it in theory, but it seems intimidating. Unfortunately I don't know anyone handier than me to help either. I'm wondering if I'd be better letting my local garage handle it. I just worry I'll get stuck, or worse, do it wrong and kill the engine.

 

[RossKean]

How hard of a job is it?

Relative to what? Certainly not the simplest service to perform and I have seen screwups by experienced mechanics - including myself on the third valve adjustment I did. Ended out off by one tooth but recognized the issue and fixed it without damaging anything.

Not especially easy to see the alignment marks and quite easy to get things off a bit. A number of threads here on valve checks and CCT changes, but some experienced assistance would be invaluable. Especially if you are chasing a potential problem.

 

[domaged]

Relative to what? Certainly not the simplest service to perform and I have seen screwups by experienced mechanics - including myself on the third valve adjustment I did. Ended out off by one tooth but recognized the issue and fixed it without damaging anything.

Not especially easy to see the alignment marks and quite easy to get things off a bit. A number of threads here on valve checks and CCT changes, but some experienced assistance would be invaluable. Especially if you are chasing a potential problem.

Fair question. Relative to doing fluids and filters, suspension linkage, and instrument cluster mod it sounds pretty intensive.
Might be a bit much for my first time working in an engine.
Unless I find someone willing to assist, It feels like garage would be a safer bet.

Appreciate the advice!

Dom

 

[RossKean]

Fair question. Relative to doing fluids and filters, suspension linkage, and instrument cluster mod it sounds pretty intensive.
Might be a bit much for my first time working in an engine.
Unless I find someone willing to assist, It feels like garage would be a safer bet.

Appreciate the advice!

Dom

I did my first valve check unassisted. It was a bit intimidating but I got through it. Relatively easy if adjustment isn't necessary and it wasn't for that check.

In your case, you are looking to see if there is an Issue with respect to timing being off. As mentioned, it isn't all that easy to see and an experienced eye would be helpful.

Other than behavior, is there a reason to suspect timing is off? Recent valve adjustment service, CCT change? Clattering noises on tight side when engine is cold (bad CCT)? If not. I would look at some of the other possibilities first, including stuff in this thread and what I posted in your intro thread.

Good luck.

 

[domaged]

I did my first valve check unassisted. It was a bit intimidating but I got through it. Relatively easy if adjustment isn't necessary and it wasn't for that check.

In your case, you are looking to see if there is an Issue with respect to timing being off. As mentioned, it isn't all that easy to see and an experienced eye would be helpful.

Other than behavior, is there a reason to suspect timing is off? Recent valve adjustment service, CCT change? Clattering noises on tight side when engine is cold (bad CCT)? If not. I would look at some of the other possibilities first, including stuff in this thread and what I posted in your intro thread.

Good luck.

Yeah, it was just that I'd seen 2 threads where the issue I'm having turned out to be a skipped tooth. The CCT has been off or changed at some point, as I can see the bolts have been out. But Then the issue is recent and that work isn't so it can't be improper installation.

Like you suggest, I'm going to work through the other stuff first. I just wanted to know if it was worth me ordering the kit to try valves and timing myself, or If I just book it in for that.

Thanks

 

[RossKean]

As far as required stuff to do a valve check, you will need a decent set of feeler gauges, o-rings for the coolant pipe, fresh coolant, timing cover gasket (although you can probably re-use the old one) and (possibly) shims. You won't know which ones (if any) until you measure existing clearances. Good time to change spark plugs while you're at it. Regular wrenches and torque wrench as well.

Do the other stuff first. Probably should be checked anyway.