BMW R1200GS

[phroenips]

I'm looking to get a long distance capable dual-sport, giving me the option of say, riding from here (Colorado Springs) to Moab, then play in some of the dirt roads, etc there. To that end, I've narrowed it down to the R1200GS (maybe Adventure). (Really, I'd like to have the Yamaha Super Tenere, but they don't love us enough in the states...wonder if we can do a group buy ).

I have two main concerns:

1. Reliability. I hear mixed reviews on this, and I'm not sure how much is coming from the BMW haters and how much from the BMW fanboys. Any objective experience?

2. Ease of maintenance. I'm certainly no wrench, but I'm comfortable doing minor stuff myself. How difficult is it to do scheduled maintenance, or will I have to take it to the dealer for this and pay out the yin-yang?

Again, I'm hoping to get some less biased info...but something tells me that may be hard to come by on a BMW :glare:

 

[Ignacio]

Any objective experience?

Yeah, right. Not here.....or by me. Choose another place besides a forum about one particular model motorcycle that isn't in competition with the FJR and you might find some objective info.

1. Reliability. I hear mixed reviews on this

Recently mentioned here. Final drive issue alone nixes it as a candidate for me. Any bike that has a 1 in 7 chance of stranding me in the middle of a ride more than 5 days in duration even if I wasn't as biased as I am.

Most telling for me is the former BMW owners that are switching to FJRs, Goldwings, and the occasional ST1300. BMW doesn't seem to be able (or willing) to build reliable bikes these days.

 

[Spud]

If you've got the inseam (think really high seats), I think the KTM 990 is the way to go if you're really heading off road. I've seen several dealers with unsold 2-3 year old KTM's, so maybe deals can be had...

 

[Auburn]

If you've got the inseam (think really high seats), I think the KTM 990 is the way to go if you're really heading off road. I've seen several dealers with unsold 2-3 year old KTM's, so maybe deals can be had...

My brother has one of these. He love's it. He is more dirt oriented rider than I am, so he tends to push it pretty hard in the dirt if he isn't riding his regular dirt bike.

 

[phroenips]

If you've got the inseam (think really high seats), I think the KTM 990 is the way to go if you're really heading off road. I've seen several dealers with unsold 2-3 year old KTM's, so maybe deals can be had...

I've seen the KTM and don't have the inseam for it. I'm also not looking for something super heavy duty. Dirt roads, fire roads, some light jeep trails and the like. I'll mostly be on pavement.

...If only the FJR had more ground clearance and a drop cage type system

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

I've ridden my buddy's GS (couple years old) and am impressed. Obviously pretty comfortable, nice handling (on the street......didn't do any dirt), but I was most impressed with the motor. The thing has tremendous low-end torque. The FJR is nice down low, but that GS REALLY has nice torque just off idle.

I have another buddy with a KTM. He loves it, but quality issues have dimmed his views a little.

 

[scubatech]

I'm looking to get a long distance capable dual-sport, giving me the option of say, riding from here (Colorado Springs) to Moab, then play in some of the dirt roads, etc there. To that end, I've narrowed it down to the R1200GS (maybe Adventure). (Really, I'd like to have the Yamaha Super Tenere, but they don't love us enough in the states...wonder if we can do a group buy ).
I have two main concerns:

1. Reliability. I hear mixed reviews on this, and I'm not sure how much is coming from the BMW haters and how much from the BMW fanboys. Any objective experience?

2. Ease of maintenance. I'm certainly no wrench, but I'm comfortable doing minor stuff myself. How difficult is it to do scheduled maintenance, or will I have to take it to the dealer for this and pay out the yin-yang?

Again, I'm hoping to get some less biased info...but something tells me that may be hard to come by on a BMW :glare:

Phroenips,

I like these bikes too. It is talked about and bashed as much as the Harley stuff on forums. Try advrider.com Go to G-spot. Also R1200GSforum.com You have to weed out the whiners as there are many. Just like our Forum you can see who knows their stuff and base your decision on that. I rode on for a week in Europe and loved the comfort & handling.

Ken

 

[dcarver]

If you have the $$, BMW/KTM makes very nice mounts. I'm poor so ride cheap, used, heavily farkled Suzuki DL650. It can run all day long on the pavement at 85, but not much more, and can handles secondary roads nicely. No single track though.

To your specific point, I know of several recent BMW owners who have converted, and happy to have left the platform. Then again, I know 2 others that just drank the kool-aid and are in love. It's great fun to bring both groups together, stir it up with them, then sit back and watch the fray.

 

[beemerdons]

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=116905&hl= phroenips, Is there a reason you are not examining the F800/650GS Twin's? I rode mine down and back to Real de Catorce in Central Mexico; half pavement and half dirt. I'll be riding "Salma Hayek", mi BMW F650GS Twin through Copper Canyon in Mexico from Chihuahua to Los Mochis on the Gulf of California via Batopilas, then back again to Creel via Urique in November with other guys from our FJR Forum. Also have ridden this F650GS Twin to Tennessee and routinely to SoCal to ride with Fairlaner, Neil, johnny80s and Bluesy!

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=114824&hl= Here is a nice Ride Report from my illegitimate ******* Son SkooterG - an Admin here on our FJR Forum. His lovely girlfriend GS Jane owns the same bike as mine, but it is red; has the same dirt mods such as crash bars and skid plates. The Apache Dirt Trail and Four Peaks Wilderness are very similar to riding the dirt of Moab, Utah.

Can you afford to buy and maintain two motorcycles? If you can, give the BMW R1100GS some consideration. My 1996 BMW R1100GS currently has 110,000 miles on the odometer and the only problem I had was when I abused the clutch on "Mi Mexico Mule" riding up the beach from Scorpion Bay to Scammon's Lagoon on the West Side of Baja California on the Pacific Ocean. But even though I tortured the clutch by slogging through soft sand for 100 kilometers, Mi Mexico Mule still got me back to Iron Horse BMW in Tucson for a new clutch! Only 30 lbs. heavier than R1200GS; VERDAD!

You can buy clean BMW R1100GS's all day long for less than 5 grand and usually with farkles such as Jesse Luggage and AeroFlow windshields; etc.! I've ridden Mi MEX Mule in Moab Park many times!

SMALL THREAD HIJACK: Did anybody notice dcarver stating "I'm poor so ride cheap,...". Jesu Cristo, if I had dcarver's money I would rake mi dinero into a pile with a rake and burn it in my front yard!

 

[phroenips]

phroenips, Is there a reason you are not examining the F800/650GS Twin's?

I guess I should go demo them and check them out. I used to have an SV650 (well, still have it, trying to sell it), and at highway speeds, I get tired of listening to the engine scream. I'm not sure if the F800 or 650 Twin does the same thing...I figured a big bore, like the FJR wouldn't have that problem.

Of course, the 2010 GSA I demoed still felt a bit slow, despite all it's torque (then again, few (comfortable) bikes feel fast compared to the Feej)).

Can you afford to buy and maintain two motorcycles?

Technically yes, but one of them has to be for my partner, and they have to be of similar capabilities so we can ride together. We currently have two FJRs Don't have the space or the money for a total of four bikes.

 

[phroenips]

phroenips, Is there a reason you are not examining the F800/650GS Twin's?

I just did a little more research on these, and they're chain driven. One of my requirements is shaft drive...I hate chain maintenance!

Too bad I'm so lazy, 'cause it seems like it might've been a good option.

 

[FantasticJohnR]

4 guys in my group that I ride with have 1200 GSs- with two that are adventures. They love them.

The adventure seems to be heavier and so less manageable on more difficult off road terrain. The GSs stay right with me on the twisties too. Really a very good all around bike.

I think there were issues as mentioned above on the shaft drives- but I think this was fixed post 08 versions (not sure though).

Now, for cost....more expensive for everything- the bike, the accessories- (hard bags aren't included) and the service IMHO.

But, if you've got the cash- then is a great all around bike!

 

[happyPuppy]

Somewhat antidotal but told to me by a fellow who has ridded around the world on a bike twice and a woman who has ridden from Alaska to the very end of S. America as well as down all of Africa. Bigger of the adventure type bikes is not better it is worse. They are heavy and the BMW's are hard to do any work on the side of the road. BMW 's cost more to maintain as well. The KTM's, are a better bike IMO. I was told the KLR or the Yamaha RM 450 are as big as you really want to go as far as a DS bike. The Stroms are good for dual track, FS roads but more of a 70% road 30% off at the most. In an ideal world I would have a FJR and a KTM or RM series. The BMW's are just too big. Watch "The Long Way around" and how they struggle with them and the cameraman on a little Russian 350 has no problems.

 

[El Toro]

Regarding the post at the top about the lack of reliability for trips longer than five days....

Five of the top 10 finishers in the 2009 Iron Butt Rally were of BMW origin.

The bias against BMW is quite strong with many folks.

Here's a link to the order of finish last year.

https://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2009/2009IBRfinish.pdf

If you look at the DNFs, it is true that there were 9 BMWs that DNF'd, but there were also 5 FJRs, and 11 bikes of Honda origin, among several other marques. You can look over the list and draw your own conclusions.

 

[Ignacio]

If you look at the DNFs, it is true that there were 9 BMWs that DNF'd, but there were also 5 FJRs, and 11 bikes of Honda origin, among several other marques. You can look over the list and draw your own conclusions.

They actually just list DNF and not the mode of failure...nor did they track it on the website. But I know that if you look at those more closely whether the rider failed or the bike failed and you'll see a much higher proportion of bike failures in the BMWs...principally from final drive failure.

2007 data does include this kind of information and shows various FD failures, a bunch of "withdrew" that is rider related, and a single FJR failure that was due to an aftermarket stator.

Draw conclusions from that additional data.

SPANK 2008...I think two FD failures including what would have been the #1 rider going to a DNF. Also a GS with imminent failure just after the rally. I can predict with reasonable certainty (and will bet people) that 1 out of 7 late model BMW final drives WILL fail in a rally of 5 days or more. Wanna make bet for SPANK this year? If so, PM or let's start a new thread in NEPRT.

 

[Spud]

If you look at the DNFs, it is true that there were 9 BMWs that DNF'd, but there were also 5 FJRs, and 11 bikes of Honda origin, among several other marques. You can look over the list and draw your own conclusions.

They actually just list DNF and not the mode of failure...nor did they track it on the website. But I know that if you look at those more closely whether the rider failed or the bike failed and you'll see a much higher proportion of bike failures in the BMWs...principally from final drive failure.

2007 data does include this kind of information and shows various FD failures, a bunch of "withdrew" that is rider related, and a single FJR failure that was due to an aftermarket stator.

Draw conclusions from that additional data.

SPANK 2008...I think two FD failures including what would have been the #1 rider going to a DNF. Also a GS with imminent failure just after the rally. I can predict with reasonable certainty (and will bet people) that 1 out of 7 late model BMW final drives WILL fail in a rally of 5 days or more. Wanna make bet for SPANK this year? If so, PM or let's start a new thread in NEPRT.

As long as it's headed for NEPRT, let's talk about what final drive oil they should have used, how often it should be changed, and whether or not to use a new crush washer each time... B)

 

[El Toro]

If your bike fails, your bike fails. The specific failure is little consolation as you load it onto the truck for a trip to the ER.

Some folks just have a really hard time with BMW envy. Yeah yeah yeah... I'd never have one either.... they're all just crap.... I don't like truffles either, or fois gras.... its just nasty stuff, especially on a prime filet.....yeah.... that's the ticket....Don't make me drink any of that 1998 Petrus Pomerol either. How could anything from near the St. Emilion appellation be any good anyway? Opus Opus X? No thanks... they give everyone heartburn.

NEPRT? I agree....

I wonder if final drives fail more frequently if you are running car tires .... hmmmmm

Can't we trot out the pictures now of the torched final drive? And can't we now admonish folks that if they have a BMW, they WILL be stranded by the side of the road? All that 36 month / 36,000 mile 24/7 roadside assistance has got to be killing BMW, no?

When you see a BMW on the road, everyone knows that it will usually be stranded on the side of the road. They're incredibly unreliable. The 5 out of 10 top finishers last year were flukes. They carried spares along, but didn't need them. How often does that happen?

Lets see...

Oh yeah.... desired result achieved, i.e., "I'm out."

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I'm looking to get a long distance capable dual-sport, giving me the option of...riding ... to Moab, then play in some of the dirt roads, etc there. To that end, I've narrowed it down to the R1200GS (maybe Adventure). I have two main concerns:

1. Reliability.

Any objective experience?

2. Ease of maintenance.

I'm ... no wrench, ...will I have to take it to the dealer ...and pay ...?

phroenips, Is there a reason you are not examining the F800/650GS Twin's?

I just did a little more research on these, and they're chain driven. One of my requirements is shaft drive...I hate chain maintenance!

If you want to ride to Moab and then ride off-road there -- you might be well advised to seek something alot smaller than a Big Beemer...?

Off-road riding at Moab is quite good and quite off-road. Maybe you might like riding a Big Beemer on Kansas back-roads, instead...?

I know several riders who've had Big (GS) Beemers -- all that I know have had catastrophic rear-drive failures (one had multiple...).

If you don't like chain maintenance...? Well..., what maintainence would you do v/s the dealer...?

If shaft-drive is a requirement...? I think that leaves you with either a Big Beemer or a Guzzi Stelvio...?

 

[Ignacio]

If your bike fails, your bike fails. The specific failure is little consolation as you load it onto the truck for a trip to the ER.

Not important for that particualr failure...but it's very important for that next trip or rally.

In the FJR's case it reinforces that leaving certain parts stock (like stators) increase your chances of getting to your destination. For a BMW it reinforces the fact that if you ride what the factory provides you (like final drive) it reduces your chance of getting there to a very questionable level. Many folks have a problem when the stock bike from the mother marquee is the part that seems to fail most often.

Also on the FJR Yamaha often resolves underlying issues via recall or extended warranty (i.e. ticking, altitude issue, ignition switch, and perhaps the grounding spider). Still haven't seen BMW issue a recall on any final drive.

The 5 out of 10 top finishers last year were flukes. They carried spares along, but didn't need them. How often does that happen?

Not at all. Besides the best IRB riders being BMW rider (yes, I think they're better than FJR riders including myself) a 1 in 7 FD failure rate doesn't conflict whatsover with the result. And since there was a 2 in 7 chance of either of the FD carrying riders failing....it doesn't surprise me one didn't fail. If it were to continue for four years though I would be increasingly surprised because the odds would exceed 1 in 1.

And the larger question is would there have been 6 out of 7 top finishers if a final drive hadn't failed. To that potential 6th person I can't imagine the agony. And maybe they were displaced because an FJR didn't fail...because they're mechanical failure rate is much, much smaller than 1 in 7.

I know I'm biased, but I'm also in tune with the cold hard facts that BMW has a final drive problem. It's probably no worse than being a BMW apologist about the issue though.