BT023GT front cupping

[Spud]

I had a set of 023GTs on my FJR for 11,000 miles before I changed them out for a set of PR2s. One thing I rarely see addressed in these tire mileage discussions is suspension. In my case, I ordered an upgraded suspension and had the suspension adjusted for my weight and riding style by a mechanic who works with an AMA Pro Racer. I definitely know that a bad suspension on a car will drastically impact tire performance and mileage. Isn't it likely that the same thing could happen on a motorcycle? I have watched Skooter's taillights disappear as we headed into the mountains and if he gets over 11,000 miles from a set of tires, I have a hard time believing anyone should get less miles per tire. Just my .02 - YMMV

Back to my tire at 6800 miles:

I don't think the best suspension settings in the world would double my tire life. I always ride solo, usually not much gear, and I weigh about 185. So, I think it has a lot more to do with rolling around in AZ on roads made of rubber vs. the nasty chip-seal roads up here in winter-wonderland. I've also noticed very-high speed strait line cruising (ie NV) eats them up. I don't really understand why a tire wears faster at high speed if it isn't slipping--it's just covering the same distance in less time...

BTW I'd be interested to hear your mileage comparison of PR2 vs. 023GT's. I'm on my 3rd or 4th set of the 23's just because they're cheap and I like them.

 

[Iris]

.............I don't really understand why a tire wears faster at high speed if it isn't slipping--it's just covering the same distance in less time...

Maybe because the tire is heating up more at higher speeds?

 

[bluesdog]

I replaced the stock BT 021 front at 7,000Km, with a BT 023GT. The 021 was very badly cupped, and the handling was mushy. The replacement BT 023GT will be replaced this friday with another.

It has become 'squared off' at the sides, and is now cupped. Also, the wear bars are just beginning to contact the pavement. (Going on a 325Km ride to Vancouver and return tomorrow, so expect the wear bars to be scuffing by the end of the return trip.) Despite this, the bike still handles predictably

I replaced the rear stock BT 021 at @ 12,000, with a BT 023GT, that's also nearing end-of-life. I'll also be replacing it with another BT 023GT on friday.

I've been running front pressure at one or two lbs over -- 40 - 41 PSI, and keeping the rear at or near 42 PSI. I weigh @ 170lbs, and ride solo, usually slightly over the posted limit, (occasionally well over it!), and carve the curves at speeds significantly higher than the suggested posted curve signs. There are a few nice twisty secondary highways around here, too...

The road surfaces around here are pretty average, I'd say, and I don't do much riding on gravel.

All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the BT 023GT, in terms of wear and handling. By the time I change them out, I'll have nearly 20,000Km on the front, and close to 15,000Km on the rear. Not too shabby.

 

[Jim in Phoenix]

I had a set of 023GTs on my FJR for 11,000 miles before I changed them out for a set of PR2s. One thing I rarely see addressed in these tire mileage discussions is suspension. In my case, I ordered an upgraded suspension and had the suspension adjusted for my weight and riding style by a mechanic who works with an AMA Pro Racer. I definitely know that a bad suspension on a car will drastically impact tire performance and mileage. Isn't it likely that the same thing could happen on a motorcycle? I have watched Skooter's taillights disappear as we headed into the mountains and if he gets over 11,000 miles from a set of tires, I have a hard time believing anyone should get less miles per tire. Just my .02 - YMMV

Back to my tire at 6800 miles:

I don't think the best suspension settings in the world would double my tire life. I always ride solo, usually not much gear, and I weigh about 185. So, I think it has a lot more to do with rolling around in AZ on roads made of rubber vs. the nasty chip-seal roads up here in winter-wonderland. I've also noticed very-high speed strait line cruising (ie NV) eats them up. I don't really understand why a tire wears faster at high speed if it isn't slipping--it's just covering the same distance in less time...

BTW I'd be interested to hear your mileage comparison of PR2 vs. 023GT's. I'm on my 3rd or 4th set of the 23's just because they're cheap and I like them.

OK - So, here's my tire history.

- Dunlop Sport Max Qualifier (on the bike when I bought it and new - 5000 miles.

- Bridgestone 023GT 10,000 miles - probably another 1000 in them but I was going on a 1 week, southern Utah/Colorado ride.

- Michelin PR2 11,000 miles. Last trip was to Death Valley (FODS) and probably another 1000 miles available but they were to the wear bars and I had a 1 week Colorado trip coming up.

- Michelin PR3 rear and PR2 front. Great combo IMHO. The wear indicators on the PR3 should give a better indication of the remaining tire life. Currently at 3500 miles and very satisfied in performance and wear. No cupping (on any of my front tires).

Just 3 more notes.

1. Rubberized asphalt in AZ is mainly on urban freeways and for noise suppression reasons. I don't know of future plans by AZ DOT, but AZ87 between Phoenix and Payson was resurfaced in part with chip seal. It made the trip to Payson a real adventure for several weeks. Hopefully, future resurfacing will be rubberized but that probably depends on finances. So, I would guess that most AZ rural mountain roads are likely old chip seal.

2. I ride solo and at 215 lbs that is enough challenge for the suspension and the tires. I do not consider myself "fast" and compared to Skooter, I am slow. But compared to some of the other people I ride with, I am "faster". Different strokes for different folks.

3. If you haven't had your suspension checked by a competent mechanic, I recommend you do it. Even if you don't get additional tire life, your riding pleasure will improve.

 

[puppychow]

<snip> Put it out in the sun before you try and mount it. That helps and so does a second set of hands. :assassin:

Sun or a buddy definitely helps, but these XtraHand Clamp work when mounting solo! Add the Yellow Thing and it's a one man operation.

--G

That Yellow Thing is the shizzle! I just put my first set of 023GT's on my FJR last week. I've been mounting the PR2's on the FJR as well as others for friends, using my Harbor Freight unit and Parnes balancer. I COULD NOT get the 023GT on the rim and I fussed it with for a long time. Ended up taking it to my buddy's shop where he has pro equipment and even he had to put the muscle into it but he's got a Yellow Thing and what a lifesaver that is!

Al and I just put on a pair of 023GTs on my FJR. We heat up both tires using tire warmers. The front tire went on pretty easy. The rear tire was a mother******!!!! It took the combined muscle power of both Al and I to wrestle that thing on there (and we thought we had been working out), it took us over half hour of muscling to get that bugger on the rim and we used the yellow thing and the black thing and the whatever else we could find. I better love how this f****** tire rides!! Although it is giving me serious second thoughts about buying it again and having to wrestle to put it on the wheel!

 

[FJRMGM]

BT's always cup. You can slow it some by running 41 to 42 front and back but it will happen.

I have 10k miles on my front BT-023 and it has not cupped yet.

I run a little higher pressure on the front than usual and I believe that helped.

 

[ekms377]

BT's always cup. You can slow it some by running 41 to 42 front and back but it will happen.

I have 10k miles on my front BT-023 and it has not cupped yet.

I run a little higher pressure on the front than usual and I believe that helped.

I have about 2300 miles on mine. The front still looks brand new while the back looks great it is starting to flat spot a little. BTW....these tires are stiff. Regardless if you run 35psi or 41psi its gonna feel hard. Just my opinion in 2300 miles. I am wondering how the regular GTs feel compared to these? Maybe next time.

 

[Fred W]

BT's always cup. You can slow it some by running 41 to 42 front and back but it will happen.

I have 10k miles on my front BT-023 and it has not cupped yet.

I run a little higher pressure on the front than usual and I believe that helped.

I have about 2300 miles on mine. The front still looks brand new while the back looks great it is starting to flat spot a little. BTW....these tires are stiff. Regardless if you run 35psi or 41psi its gonna feel hard. Just my opinion in 2300 miles. I am wondering how the regular GTs feel compared to these? Maybe next time.

Wading in here...

I have recently installed a set of new Bridgestone BT-023GT tires on my '05, after having run several (3 or 4) sets of Michelin PR-2's. Before that I was running Dunlop Roadsmart rears with Pirelli Strada fronts, which was my favorite but the Stradas are NLA.

Initially, based on some of the talk here, I set the tire pressures on the high side (42F and 44R) and they felt stiff and hard. I dropped the pressures to my standard PR2 pressures of 40F / 42R and the tires felt much stickier and planted. During the NERDS event I checked my pressures daily and noted that I had lost a little air, down to 39F 41R and the tires felt even sticker. But before returning home today I re-inflated to 40/42 because we were loading the bags up for the return trip.

I would say that the BT023GT's provide significantly more cornering traction and road irregularity compliance as compared to PR2s. And yes, I also realized that the tires were pretty stiff when installed (I spoon mine on) If a lunkhead like me can feel it, it must be pretty significant. What mileage I can achieve on the tires, and whether they wear in a bad way, is yet to be seen. But if I can get similar mileage

 

[Jim in Phoenix]

BT's always cup. You can slow it some by running 41 to 42 front and back but it will happen.

I have 10k miles on my front BT-023 and it has not cupped yet.

I run a little higher pressure on the front than usual and I believe that helped.

I have not had any cupping whatsoever on my 06 FJR. So far, Dunlop Sportmax Qualifiers (5000 miles), 023GT (10,000 Miles), and PR2 (11,000 miles). I check pressures before EVERY ride and run 39 front, 42 rear. YMMV

 

[Spud]

Here's the front off the same set (6800 miles--a record for me...)

Your front looks good. Why replace it? Photo is not as close as I would like, but I see no cupping. You should see my front. But then I do have 11,000 on it. Not sure when I first noticed it. Still don't feel it and can lean high angles with confidence so I am not complaining too much.

I like to put on new tires in sets, and keep the old ones around for lost Canadians. Sure enough, last summer at WTF.0 some Canadian showed up to Idaho Falls with a bald front tire, and that tire in the photo was donated.

Sure enough--spent some time this weekend riding with 3 Canadians around the area (2 on FJR's, one on a BMW). Gary has a K1200GT, his front tire (PR3) was totally shot after our ride--no tread left on 2/3 of it--looked almost like a track slick. Fortunately, that bike takes the same size tire as the FJR. My take-off 'stone 023 was donated and Gary should now be able to get back home I did require him to submit to photograph evidence. Some of you may know him from NAFO--he was there. They're heading over Beartooth today--lucky bastards! I'm back at work...

https://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt2/spudboy_2009/GaryTire.jpg' alt='GaryTire.jpg'>

 

[Constant Mesh]

About the only front tire tread that won't cup would be a slick with no tread blocks. If one keeps on bumping up the pressure to minimize tread block flex much/most of the feedback from the tire will be lost.

Tread block cupping or feathering is normal wear. Side forces, braking forces, etc. distort the blocks and cause uneven wear.

 

[Dale2010]

I replaced the stock BT 021 front at 7,000Km, with a BT 023GT. The 021 was very badly cupped, and the handling was mushy. The replacement BT 023GT will be replaced this friday with another.

It has become 'squared off' at the sides, and is now cupped. Also, the wear bars are just beginning to contact the pavement. (Going on a 325Km ride to Vancouver and return tomorrow, so expect the wear bars to be scuffing by the end of the return trip.) Despite this, the bike still handles predictably

I replaced the rear stock BT 021 at @ 12,000, with a BT 023GT, that's also nearing end-of-life. I'll also be replacing it with another BT 023GT on friday.

I've been running front pressure at one or two lbs over -- 40 - 41 PSI, and keeping the rear at or near 42 PSI. I weigh @ 170lbs, and ride solo, usually slightly over the posted limit, (occasionally well over it!), and carve the curves at speeds significantly higher than the suggested posted curve signs. There are a few nice twisty secondary highways around here, too...

The road surfaces around here are pretty average, I'd say, and I don't do much riding on gravel.

All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the BT 023GT, in terms of wear and handling. By the time I change them out, I'll have nearly 20,000Km on the front, and close to 15,000Km on the rear. Not too shabby.

That's amazing meterage. I am riding the same tires you describe. Although I ride two up most of the time, I can't get anywhere near the wear you've managed. In fact, at this point it seems that I'm unlikely to get the 11 500 km I got with the original Metzelers (rear was completely shot when changed). The BT 023 GT rear tire will most likely be gone within 10 000 km.

 

[bluesdog]

I replaced the stock BT 021 front at 7,000Km, with a BT 023GT. The 021 was very badly cupped, and the handling was mushy. The replacement BT 023GT will be replaced this friday with another.

It has become 'squared off' at the sides, and is now cupped. Also, the wear bars are just beginning to contact the pavement. (Going on a 325Km ride to Vancouver and return tomorrow, so expect the wear bars to be scuffing by the end of the return trip.) Despite this, the bike still handles predictably

I replaced the rear stock BT 021 at @ 12,000, with a BT 023GT, that's also nearing end-of-life. I'll also be replacing it with another BT 023GT on friday.

I've been running front pressure at one or two lbs over -- 40 - 41 PSI, and keeping the rear at or near 42 PSI. I weigh @ 170lbs, and ride solo, usually slightly over the posted limit, (occasionally well over it!), and carve the curves at speeds significantly higher than the suggested posted curve signs. There are a few nice twisty secondary highways around here, too...

The road surfaces around here are pretty average, I'd say, and I don't do much riding on gravel.

All things considered, I'm pretty happy with the BT 023GT, in terms of wear and handling. By the time I change them out, I'll have nearly 20,000Km on the front, and close to 15,000Km on the rear. Not too shabby.

That's amazing meterage. I am riding the same tires you describe. Although I ride two up most of the time, I can't get anywhere near the wear you've managed. In fact, at this point it seems that I'm unlikely to get the 11 500 km I got with the original Metzelers (rear was completely shot when changed). The BT 023 GT rear tire will most likely be gone within 10 000 km.

I suspect close monitoring of the tire pressure, keeping it at or slightly above the recommended amount, plus adjusting the suspension for your weight/riding style, may have a lot to do with getting good mileage out of the tires.

As for the front, I try to keep an even speed through the curves -- slower entry, and smooth acceleration past the apex. I think this reduces the proportion of weight the front has to carry.

BTW, examining the tires before taking the bike in to have new rubber fitted, I think I could have actually got another few hundred Km from them, but I was starting to feel a bit nervous..

 

[Dale2010]

Anyone else experiencing cupping with the BT023GT front tire? I am getting the irregular wear pattern on this one just as much as the stock 021. I have about 2000 miles on the tire now and that irregular wear is quite apparent. I am running 39PSI in it. Rear is wearing fine as the old tire and running 41 in it.

I'm running the same tire on the front and have about 10 000 km (6 000 miles) on the tire with no problems yet. I inflate the front to about 39 psi which settles back a few psi over time if fail to do regular checks.

The back tire... now that's a different story.

Don't fall for Bridgestone's claim of 30% greater wear distance. That's an extreme exaggeration, at best.

 

[Dale2010]

Mine is also starting to cup but I have 11,000 miles on it. It sure as hell wasn't cupping at 2,000. I too run higher pressures in the 41psi range. Though a couple times I did catch this one low in the 37 psi range. If I had been more diligent I might be seeing less cupping.

I'm not too concerned however as I am not experiencing any handling or ride issues with this cupped tire as I have with other tires. It doesn't have much life left anyways.

This is the first set I have run. I like them. Bought another set recently when on sale at BikeBandit.

I like the tire too, however at almost 11k it was shot with slight cupping. Not that many miles for a front tire.

The backs get relatively good mileage - approximately 7-8k miles before they need replacing.

The tires handle well.

One of the things which bothers me about the 023 is the lack of a center or overlapping ridge on which to base tire wear (rear tire). I had the same problem with the original Metzelers and couldn't tell how far things had gotten until the belts started to show (risky business). I would prefer for my next tire, regardless of brand, to have a center ridge or overlapping side ridges which I can more closely monitor.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Adding another data point, getting ready to pull off a set of 023GTs. Current mileage is 7,870 with about 1,500 of that two-up and loaded, not a lot of slab use.

Front tire has quite a few miles left as it's not to the wear bars and profile is still great. Very minor cupping, nothing like a PR2 at end of life. Going to keep this one for a buddy tire.

Back tire is used...although if not for an upcoming 1,500 mile trip, I'd run it locally for few hundred more miles.

Got a little tread chunking on the left side. Haven't seen this on any other tires I've run.

The GTs didn't scallop as badly as the last few sets of PR2s run.

Still love the way these tires ride and feel, confidence inspiring, plenty of wet traction for the PNW. I've had PR2s slide on me (especially front)in the wet, not these.

YMMV

--G

 

[Jim in Phoenix]

Mine is also starting to cup but I have 11,000 miles on it. It sure as hell wasn't cupping at 2,000. I too run higher pressures in the 41psi range. Though a couple times I did catch this one low in the 37 psi range. If I had been more diligent I might be seeing less cupping.

I'm not too concerned however as I am not experiencing any handling or ride issues with this cupped tire as I have with other tires. It doesn't have much life left anyways.

This is the first set I have run. I like them. Bought another set recently when on sale at BikeBandit.

I like the tire too, however at almost 11k it was shot with slight cupping. Not that many miles for a front tire.

The backs get relatively good mileage - approximately 7-8k miles before they need replacing.

The tires handle well.

One of the things which bothers me about the 023 is the lack of a center or overlapping ridge on which to base tire wear (rear tire). I had the same problem with the original Metzelers and couldn't tell how far things had gotten until the belts started to show (risky business). I would prefer for my next tire, regardless of brand, to have a center ridge or overlapping side ridges which I can more closely monitor.

That is what I like about the PR3 rear. In addition to wear bars, there are holes that appear to give a better feel for tire wear. I'll let you know in 8000 miles +-. I had a hard time with the 023s and the PR2s when the tires were near to end of life. If truth, I probably could have squeezed another 500 to 1000 miles out of them but with a longer trip coming up, decided that it was better safe than sorry.

 

[Slardy]

Falko,

I have no cupping and almost perfect wear on my BT-023s after 2700 miles. Here are photos of my front.

Ummm... I see definite cupping there, man. (easier to see on the right side of this picture) If you've got that in 2700 miles you might want to heed the advice given and raise the pressure a few psi to see if you can keep it from progressing further.

I finally took this front BT-023GT off. The profile was identical to the original profile. Total mileage: 8400 miles: 25% more than I got on any Road Pilots 2s. I also got 6900 miles out of the rear BT-023GT. More than any Road Pilot 2 by almost 20%.

I highly recommend this tire.

Slardy

 

[kman09]

I hope I can get that on mine, just put a set on my 09. At 8400 that would highest ever....

 

[Fred W]

FWIW - I put a set of BT023GTs on mine last summer. I replaced the rear tire w/ 7950 miles on it at the wear bars in March. I needed more groove for the crappy weather rides this winter. I typically get 9500 miles out of a PR2 rear. I replaced that tire with a PR2 rear.

OTOH, the front 023GT is now at 11.2k miles and still has another couple k left in it. Mine also scalloped like in the above picture but, although I can feel the tread vibration a little when leaned over into corners, it hasn't really effected the handling much that I can tell. I have another 023GT front to go on soon.

PR2 back, 023GT front. That's going to be my setup for a while now.