C14 and FJR comparison

[.paul]

What does gunny mean!!!??

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

What does gunny mean!!!??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunny

 

[mike25]

Smoothness of engine and drive shaft competitions may push Yamaha to a more refined tourer rather than a capable super sport tourer. I hope they don't go that direction. If I wanted a K1200LT I would have bought one.

Gunny! Gunny! Gunny!

"Improvements" have a way of adding weight, ala the Gen II revisions. Something to be avoided at all costs if Mama Yamaha is listening.

Having a engine that dosen't surge, or feel like it's controlled by a on/off

switch, should not have any effect on which ever catagory you care to put it in.

Same with the slop in the driveline.

Neither should add any weight, and make the FJR a better platform for what

ever your riding style.

 

[dbvolfan]

I know that on the last gen 300z twin turbos you have to pull theengine to work on the turbos....crazy.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Having a engine that dosen't surge, or feel like it's controlled by a on/offswitch, should not have any effect on which ever catagory you care to put it in.

Same with the slop in the driveline.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. A touchy throttle would be a problem in two places for me:

1) Rolling on during a turn (especially spirited riding)

2) slow speed maneuvers

The first activity would be more important during "sport" style of riding. Otherwise, a touchy throttle is just an annoyance.

I guess I'm not very sensitive to these things. When I rode an '06 for a hundred miles, I didn't even notice the touchy throttle. It must be touchy though as so many people have talked about it. Maybe I'm used to all sorts of different throttle responses and torque levels since I ride different bikes often. Maybe I just don't have any fine tuned awareness of what I'm riding. Either way, the most important aspect of Fred H's review to me is the cornering, and I hope Yamaha doesn't go away from the good platform it has when it goes Gen III.

Seems to me that in many respects, Gen II stepped in the wrong direction of going less sport, and more touring. A few more steps in that direction and it won't be a super sport touring bike anymore. It'll just be a sport touring bike. I sure like the word 'super'.

I didn't address the slop comment because I came to the FJR from an older BMW and driveline "slop" wasn't in the list of impressions I had.

 

[v65]

Smoothness of engine and drive shaft competitions may push Yamaha to a more refined tourer rather than a capable super sport tourer. I hope they don't go that direction. If I wanted a K1200LT I would have bought one.

Gunny! Gunny! Gunny!

"Improvements" have a way of adding weight, ala the Gen II revisions. Something to be avoided at all costs if Mama Yamaha is listening.

Having a engine that dosen't surge, or feel like it's controlled by a on/off

switch, should not have any effect on which ever catagory you care to put it in.

Same with the slop in the driveline.

Neither should add any weight, and make the FJR a better platform for what

ever your riding style.

OK, but that is not my point. I am reading some expectation that there will be a major update to the FJR in the future. This does not mean fixes, which is what you seem to be discussing, but an update as in the Gen II bikes. These expectations I think are justified in a couple of years, when the Gen II bikes are three years old, and also as a response to the new Kawi (in keeping with this thread). It has been my experience that anything that gets an "improvement", be it an automobile, Microsoft windows, or a toaster, tend to get more bells and whistles and bloat. That the Gen II bikes gained some weight over the Gen I's (15lbs?) backs my concerns up. I would prefer to see that avoided in the Gen III FJR's in lieu of bells and whistles, in fact I would like to see some weight loss an more horsepower. If you have read (suffered) through the "what I want in the next year FJR threads" then you know what bells and whistles I speak of.

 

[Warchild]

Since I've been a little pre-occupied the last few months prepping/training for BBGHW, I haven't spent much time keeping up with how the big new Kawk is doing, so I spent some time on that link, and also some of the other GTR1400 forums.

Um, yeah...... the bike is definitely going through some 1st year teething issues, that much is clear. I see plenty of parallels to early FJR complaints - heat perception, top-heaviness in parking lot maneuvering, etc.

But some of the issues folks are finding out are just about discouraging..... I still find it hard to believe they used the gas tank from the ZX-14. I mean, c'mon, 5.8 gallons for a purpose-built 2-up "transcontinental" supersport-tourer? And the questions surrounding what is entailed in performing valve clearance checks are entirely disturbing. I'm somewhat confident that Fred is wrong about having to drop the engine to perform the check, but I suppose the official word won't be known until the Service Manuals are released. Can't believe Kawa would actually allow that design to make it to production, still.....

The teething problem that really caught my eye was this one dude who's KIPASS system on his new C14 just apparently flipped out about 2 weeks ago; no word on what (if anything) Kawasaki found so far:

Well looks like no riding this weekend. Went out to garage to take a little ride today and upon trying to start the bike, the whole LCD cluster jammed with all bars etc on. I am not a electronics wiz but what I mean is all the bars, LCDs, dots whatever you call them were on and the bike would do nothing. I diconnected the battery for a few minutes to hopefully reset whatever was jammed. All was normal again but upon starting the bike and riding about 20ft the LCD guage lite up again and the bike died. I did the same procedure and it jammed from the start and has not started again. yes the key fob was on my person. So I put the bike on the trailer and took it to the dealer. Man they all stood around scratching their heads. So I left the bike there and here I sit with a payment book and no bike.

I'll still keep a fairly close eye on this platform for the next year or so, but even if the bike proves to be a solid platform, financial reality indicates I am certainly in NO danger of getting one anytime soon..... :blink:

 

[twowheelnut]

I'll still keep a fairly close eye on this platform for the next year or so, but even if the bike proves to be a solid platform, financial reality indicates I am certainly in NO danger of getting one anytime soon..... :blink:

Wanna bet there will be some killer deals to be had on slightly used (if not, semi operational) 14's coming up PDQ?

 

[BrunDog]

You know, I think it is important that we do not naysay for the purpose of making ourselves feel better. The FJR is an awesome ride, and there has been no competition for it in the US for the past five model years. We can feel good to have owned the best there is. Yeah, it has its issues, but what fun would it be if we had nothing to work on, right? I think the C14 is an incredible bike on paper - most everything the FJR is but taken to another level. Personally, I am a little jealous of a few things - the motor w/VVT, anti-jacking shaft drive, inverted forks, radial brakes & masters, tire monitoring, KIPASS (if it works, only), and the modern styling.

I would like to see the bike do well: 1. Good competition to push Yammi to up the ante on the next version of feej. 2. Maybe once the bugs get worked out the C14 will be a better all around bike, and a switch would make sense 3. Sport-touring bikes are starting to get their due. The cruiser clowns will begin to wake up and smell the jet fuel.

-BD

 

[Bounce]

Rght or wrong, the interesting thing is how little time it took Fred before he began taking his new bike apart. Ya gotta give him credit for consistency.

 

[twowheelnut]

You know, I think it is important that we do not naysay for the purpose of making ourselves feel better. The FJR is an awesome ride, and there has been no competition for it in the US for the past five model years. We can feel good to have owned the best there is. Yeah, it has its issues, but what fun would it be if we had nothing to work on, right? I think the C14 is an incredible bike on paper - most everything the FJR is but taken to another level. Personally, I am a little jealous of a few things - the motor w/VVT, anti-jacking shaft drive, inverted forks, radial brakes & masters, tire monitoring, KIPASS (if it works, only), and the modern styling.
I would like to see the bike do well: 1. Good competition to push Yammi to up the ante on the next version of feej. 2. Maybe once the bugs get worked out the C14 will be a better all around bike, and a switch would make sense 3. Sport-touring bikes are starting to get their due. The cruiser clowns will begin to wake up and smell the jet fuel.

-BD

Agree, but that KIPASS (as in ALL fob type, two-step 'security' systems) is overkill, IMO. Further, adding some of that technology adds weight. I don't want more weight, I want less. If I want more weight, I'll go out and buy another GL1800.

 

[dcarver]

You know, I think it is important that we do not naysay for the purpose of making ourselves feel better. The FJR is an awesome ride, and there has been no competition for it in the US for the past five model years. We can feel good to have owned the best there is. Yeah, it has its issues, but what fun would it be if we had nothing to work on, right? I think the C14 is an incredible bike on paper - most everything the FJR is but taken to another level. Personally, I am a little jealous of a few things - the motor w/VVT, anti-jacking shaft drive, inverted forks, radial brakes & masters, tire monitoring, KIPASS (if it works, only), and the modern styling.
I would like to see the bike do well: 1. Good competition to push Yammi to up the ante on the next version of feej. 2. Maybe once the bugs get worked out the C14 will be a better all around bike, and a switch would make sense 3. Sport-touring bikes are starting to get their due. The cruiser clowns will begin to wake up and smell the jet fuel.

-BD

Agree, but that KIPASS (as in ALL fob type, two-step 'security' systems) is overkill, IMO. Further, adding some of that technology adds weight. I don't want more weight, I want less. If I want more weight, I'll go out and buy another GL1800.

or go on the adkins diet?

 

[twowheelnut]

or go on the adkins diet?

Oh, OK, Twiggy.

 

[quietguy]

The cruiser clowns will begin to wake up and smell the jet fuel.
-BD

One ride on my friend's FJR and I was overcome by the "fumes".

Signed,

cruiser clown (former)

 

[keithaba]

Smoothness of engine and drive shaft competitions may push Yamaha to a more refined tourer rather than a capable super sport tourer. I hope they don't go that direction. If I wanted a K1200LT I would have bought one.

Gunny! Gunny! Gunny!

"Improvements" have a way of adding weight, ala the Gen II revisions. Something to be avoided at all costs if Mama Yamaha is listening.

Having a engine that dosen't surge, or feel like it's controlled by a on/off

switch, should not have any effect on which ever catagory you care to put it in.

Same with the slop in the driveline.

Neither should add any weight, and make the FJR a better platform for what

ever your riding style.

OK, but that is not my point. I am reading some expectation that there will be a major update to the FJR in the future. This does not mean fixes, which is what you seem to be discussing, but an update as in the Gen II bikes. These expectations I think are justified in a couple of years, when the Gen II bikes are three years old, and also as a response to the new Kawi (in keeping with this thread). It has been my experience that anything that gets an "improvement", be it an automobile, Microsoft windows, or a toaster, tend to get more bells and whistles and bloat. That the Gen II bikes gained some weight over the Gen I's (15lbs?) backs my concerns up. I would prefer to see that avoided in the Gen III FJR's in lieu of bells and whistles, in fact I would like to see some weight loss an more horsepower. If you have read (suffered) through the "what I want in the next year FJR threads" then you know what bells and whistles I speak of.

This is very true!!! Usually, they are making updates that "Marketing Teams," have decided would sell the product. This can have very little to do with what the consumer want's, or what technical experts want. Remember that marketing makes the reccomendations as to what will "SELL" the bike. That's why you end up with "Bells and Whistles," instead of improvement that consumers actually want.

Let's hope Yamaha focuses on the issues that FJR riders appear to focus on.

1. More power if it doesn't = a lot more weight. (Who doesn't want more power??)

2. Anything that would give it more turn clearance -if it doesn't add much more weight.

3. Making the overall ride smoother (jerky throttle response, drive lash, stiff throttle spring) - if it doesn't add too much weight.

4. Get rid of engine heat

hahhahahahahahahaha, just kidding.

5. Any improvements to the aerodynamics that will reduce wind buffeting issues

6. Tire pressure monitoring (that shouldn't add much weight)

Balancing the increased weight and price issues will be difficult, but I dont want to see another 20 pounds go on the FJR, or for it to cost $20,000

BTW, I've never even ridden a GENII, so this is what I get from reading other's opinions and my 04 experience. Flame away...

 

[Shinden]

The cruiser clowns will begin to wake up and smell the jet fuel.
-BD

One ride on my friend's FJR and I was overcome by the "fumes".

Signed,

cruiser clown (former)

Me too.

Two years "cruiser free" now

 

[Bounce]

This is very true!!! Usually, they are making updates that "Marketing Teams," have decided would sell the product. This can have very little to do with what the consumer want's, or what technical experts want. Remember that marketing makes the reccomendations as to what will "SELL" the bike. That's why you end up with "Bells and Whistles," instead of improvement that consumers actually want.

but that's why maketing types win out. mixed signals from owners/customers makes it hard to pin down those "wants". for example"

Let's hope Yamaha focuses on the issues that FJR riders appear to focus on. 1. More power if it doesn't = a lot more weight. (Who doesn't want more power??)

i find that being able to run at more than 100% of the most posted top speed limits (140+ vs 75) is more than enough for me. however, there is one exception. more alternator output (power) is definitely desirable. say something in the 750 watt area.

2. Anything that would give it more turn clearance -if it doesn't add much more weight.

i find that knee angle is more important that clearance if it means a high peg that kinks me up like a 636 or just about any 600 class bike.

3. Making the overall ride smoother (jerky throttle response, drive lash, stiff throttle spring) - if it doesn't add too much weight.

smooth is always nice.

xxxxxxx

5. Any improvements to the aerodynamics that will reduce wind buffeting issues

smooth air flow is always nice.

6. Tire pressure monitoring (that shouldn't add much weight)

this is where we seriously diverge. a tire guage is light and simple. psi monitoring is anything other than simple and has been well-documented as being easily damaged during tire changes. since complex typically = expensive to replace, this isn't even on my radar screen.

 

[keithaba]

Re: Bounce (didn't want to quote that whole thing)

1. Yeah, but.... like you would go easier on the throttle if it was .5 second quicker in the quarter?

2. Didn't they lower the pegs a little on the GENII?

6. I had no idea that PSI monitoring was that complicated... Scratch that from the list then.

Point taken about consumer's varying opinions.

 

[v65]

Let's hope Yamaha focuses on the issues that FJR riders appear to focus on. 1. More power if it doesn't = a lot more weight. (Who doesn't want more power??)

i find that being able to run at more than 100% of the most posted top speed limits (140+ vs 75) is more than enough for me.

Let's not forget how quickly you get to speed, I personally could care less about going more than 140 also, but straighten my arms out getting there! :yahoo:

Bounce, I believe you are spot on with the mixed signals. To me the FJR was and is an awesome machine not only for all that it could do, but the original MSRP was $11,500, with bikes going out the door at $10,500! Mine was $11,500 with ABS. There are low tech steel frame v-twins coming out of Yamaha for more than that, and their windscreens don't go up and down. Everytime the consumer wishes for something extra we risk this excellent mix.

I would like to see Yamaha stick to the original theme of a powerful, good handling, excellent braking do all bike with a low sticker price. I will add extras, like the cruise control for example, as I see fit. The FJR community has always been one that can and will farkle, although some things such as alternator output should come from the factory!

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

6. I had no idea that PSI monitoring was that complicated... Scratch that from the list then.

Yes, true now (sort'a Rube Goldberg, presently) -- but future systems may be housed solely in the tire valve/valve stem (or) something-like, a small button on the rim exterior? Inconspicuous and trouble free.

Marketing/engineering versus owners/customers:

For comparison purposes, see the other hyphenated motorcycle genre Dual-Sport. Some want light-weight agile (street-legal) dirt bikes -- others want comfy all-purpose road bikes that may go off-highway once-in-a-while. What's a manufacturer to do?

Americans, who vote with their wallets, seem to be telling the manufacturers (in both genre -- Sport-Touring & Dual-Sport) that they want bigger, comfier, more 'full-featured' motorcycles......