radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
**** it.
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Clunking when cold
- Thread starter mindtrip
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Rickster
Well-known member
and of note -- now Corvette comes with Mobil 1 syn 5-30 from the factory
Scab
I got nothin' here...
Oh, crap. Now ya'll have done it. Jestal is watching.
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
**** it.
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Corvette has had factory fill Mobil 1 5W30 since the late 90's....that is nothing new.
That engine (and several others) are spec'd for synthetic for one reason....to avoid putting an oil cooler on the system. IF the owner takes the car to the track the oil temps can easily go above 305F without a cooler. The synthetic will handle this and protect the motor for the occasional track use. For the dedicated track guys there is an oil cooler available and recommended in the TrackPack. The synthetic specification has nothing to do with wear, cold pumpability or anything else. It is purely additional high temp protection for a performance oriented engine.
The REAL reason that OEMs are going to 5w- oils is for fuel economy. Period.
I have seen all the stuff about cold start wear and 5w- oils "getting there sooner" and it is mostly contrived. There is little or no actual difference. True, "most" of the wear occurs during cold starts. But, 100% of zero is still zero. Current engines have little or no wear on critical surfaces even after 100K miles so what exactly is wearing out on cold starts when all of the wear is occurring?? An engine starts and runs on the residual oil in the bearings and such. It really doesn't need oil flow from the pump for quite awhile (many seconds) to survive without wear. So, while it sounds nice for the oil to get there sooner, it really is nothing more than a feel good idea for marketing. The colder the engine the colder the residual oil is and the more viscous it is...which means that the engine can run for longer and longer without "replacement" oil from the lube system. So, no real danger to the engine on cold starts in very cold weather with any sort of oil.
If this weren't true engines would have been dropping like flys for decades due to all the "cold start wear". They don't. It is mostly a figment of some marketing guys imagination. Sounds good, though.
There is merit to using 5w- oils in very cold weather for cranking speed reasons. No question that an engine will crank over faster at -40 with 5w- in the sump as compared to 10W- . If you are having a problem with cold cranking speeds then use the 5W- oils, otherwise, unless it is spec'd by the factory, forget trying to engineer this in yourself. The cranking speed improves because of the thinner residual oil left in the bearings, BTW, not because of the thinner oil in the sump. If the engine were run and shut off on 10W30 and then the oil were to be changed for the cold start the next morning (without running the engine) the cold cranking speeds would not be helped.
5W- oils do run with thinner oil bearing film thicknesses at high loads so an engine that is worked very hard or run at high RPM with hot oil will be "less" robust in the lubrication area with 5W compared to 10W or heavier oils. Whether this causes a problem or not will depend on the engine but if you are looking for insurance the 5W is directionally incorrect. This is also why some engines were not and are not recommended by the OEM for 5W oil.
The viscosity improvers that give the oil the jump from "5" to "40" (as in 5W40) are what causes the problems. Specifically, the VI packages in SE and SF oils from the 1970's and early 80's were known to cause severe problems so oils with a lot of VI additives (like 10W40) were NOT recommended and DID cause severe ring belt deposits. That was 20 years ago. Todays oils have vastly improved VI additives that are almost all synthetic content regardless of the type of oil. They do not cause a problem at all. The old wives tales of 10W40 oils causing problems persist to this day but they are based on the problems of the 70's, and are not a reality today. If you want proof....look at the Delo/Delvac/Rotella oils. They are multivis oils with a fair amount of VI content that pass all the gasoline AND diesel requirements. That means that they do not have a problem with ring belt deposits. End of problem.
That engine (and several others) are spec'd for synthetic for one reason....to avoid putting an oil cooler on the system. IF the owner takes the car to the track the oil temps can easily go above 305F without a cooler. The synthetic will handle this and protect the motor for the occasional track use. For the dedicated track guys there is an oil cooler available and recommended in the TrackPack. The synthetic specification has nothing to do with wear, cold pumpability or anything else. It is purely additional high temp protection for a performance oriented engine.
The REAL reason that OEMs are going to 5w- oils is for fuel economy. Period.
I have seen all the stuff about cold start wear and 5w- oils "getting there sooner" and it is mostly contrived. There is little or no actual difference. True, "most" of the wear occurs during cold starts. But, 100% of zero is still zero. Current engines have little or no wear on critical surfaces even after 100K miles so what exactly is wearing out on cold starts when all of the wear is occurring?? An engine starts and runs on the residual oil in the bearings and such. It really doesn't need oil flow from the pump for quite awhile (many seconds) to survive without wear. So, while it sounds nice for the oil to get there sooner, it really is nothing more than a feel good idea for marketing. The colder the engine the colder the residual oil is and the more viscous it is...which means that the engine can run for longer and longer without "replacement" oil from the lube system. So, no real danger to the engine on cold starts in very cold weather with any sort of oil.
If this weren't true engines would have been dropping like flys for decades due to all the "cold start wear". They don't. It is mostly a figment of some marketing guys imagination. Sounds good, though.
There is merit to using 5w- oils in very cold weather for cranking speed reasons. No question that an engine will crank over faster at -40 with 5w- in the sump as compared to 10W- . If you are having a problem with cold cranking speeds then use the 5W- oils, otherwise, unless it is spec'd by the factory, forget trying to engineer this in yourself. The cranking speed improves because of the thinner residual oil left in the bearings, BTW, not because of the thinner oil in the sump. If the engine were run and shut off on 10W30 and then the oil were to be changed for the cold start the next morning (without running the engine) the cold cranking speeds would not be helped.
5W- oils do run with thinner oil bearing film thicknesses at high loads so an engine that is worked very hard or run at high RPM with hot oil will be "less" robust in the lubrication area with 5W compared to 10W or heavier oils. Whether this causes a problem or not will depend on the engine but if you are looking for insurance the 5W is directionally incorrect. This is also why some engines were not and are not recommended by the OEM for 5W oil.
The viscosity improvers that give the oil the jump from "5" to "40" (as in 5W40) are what causes the problems. Specifically, the VI packages in SE and SF oils from the 1970's and early 80's were known to cause severe problems so oils with a lot of VI additives (like 10W40) were NOT recommended and DID cause severe ring belt deposits. That was 20 years ago. Todays oils have vastly improved VI additives that are almost all synthetic content regardless of the type of oil. They do not cause a problem at all. The old wives tales of 10W40 oils causing problems persist to this day but they are based on the problems of the 70's, and are not a reality today. If you want proof....look at the Delo/Delvac/Rotella oils. They are multivis oils with a fair amount of VI content that pass all the gasoline AND diesel requirements. That means that they do not have a problem with ring belt deposits. End of problem.
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radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
**** it.
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The cold idle rpm may be a bit higher with the 5w- oil. I used the Rotella 5w-40 for one change and noticed that the idle rpm went above 2K. Using 15w-40 the cold idle rpm never gets that high.
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Scab
I got nothin' here...
Science is great but does not and cannot explain all things in this world. As riders, I am sure all can relate to the pursuit of motorcycle nirvana and the zen-like state of becoming one with the motorcycle. Having achieved this state with my personal feej, it should be noted that we are in constant communication. A result of this constant communication has been the definative preference of particular oil sitting in the belly of the beast. I therefore use Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W40 exclusively throughout the year. She likes the way it tastes and claims it leaves her feeling fullfilled but not bloated. This is especially beneficial when I ride her hard. Heaven knows none of us want a non-responsive mount. Cholesterol levels are yet another issue as is octane, which could very easily result in hormonal rages. And let us not forget our words. It is not always what you say but how you say it. And she is listening.
...who's your daddy?...
...that's right, I'm gonna ride you hard, baby...
...who's your daddy?...
...that's right, I'm gonna ride you hard, baby...
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Toecutter
What would DoG do?
Try doing a TBS and see if it helps. Mine does that (clunking) when it needs one.
Sonny
Member
I just recently changed my oil to the Mobil 1 10W40 motorcycle oil .. expensive stuff at $9.99 a qt. What I did notice was that my bike seems to be harder to shift since. I have only 1800 miles on my brand new 06 but was told it was o.k. to switch to the full synthetic. Normally I would have 4k/5k before I would switch but was told that the new modern engines are coming from the factory with synthetic already onboard.
I did the first change of oil .. to the Yamaha 20W40 at 400 miles .. also did the rear end too with appropriate synthetic stuff .. and then again at 1100 miles for both ... this time with the Mobil 1. As I said .. I notice now that the bike is harder to shift and I'm wondering now too about the synthetics after reading that somebody else is experiencing the same type of problems as me.
Al
I did the first change of oil .. to the Yamaha 20W40 at 400 miles .. also did the rear end too with appropriate synthetic stuff .. and then again at 1100 miles for both ... this time with the Mobil 1. As I said .. I notice now that the bike is harder to shift and I'm wondering now too about the synthetics after reading that somebody else is experiencing the same type of problems as me.
Al
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