Clutch and brake fluids

[user 213]

What a buncha *******! :glare: Howie, less drinking, more wrenching. Do the other vehicles too ya twit. For those that think leaving it alone forever is just fine, it's not. If you had just one brake caliper seize in your lifetime, you'd understand better. Oh, you say it hasn't happened yet? BWAAHAHAHHAHA! It will if you keep ignoring it.

Changing the fluid and flushing/bleeding the system to get all fresh fluid is worth the minor time and expense. Next time you have the reservoir cap off and the plug out, give the front brake a nice hard squeeze. Go ahead, do it.

That squirt in the face of brake fluid will give you a hint why vacuum bleeders come in handy.

While we are at it, just a reminder, you can't vacuum bleed with Speed Bleeders in place.

Start with the bleed screw farthest away from the master cylinder and work to the closest. Works the same on any vehicle. As others said, for the FJR abs and non are the same procedure.

I used to see a lot of rusted pistons in brake calipers in the Miata community when I was wrenching. Car sits all winter, then the first nice day of the spring and they get to the end of the street and press the brakes, and the piston never retracts... as smoke starts rolling out of the wheel well! Granted, this won't happen in one or even three years. It's the ones that sit for 5 years that are more of an issue. Though I have seen a car parked outside for a solid year have this happen on it's first drive. The fluid was fresh when it was parked.

Brake fluids are rated for dry and wet boiling points. Race fluids have higher boiling points, but tend to be more hygroscopic. Real racers swap fluid often. Like before every race. Dry boiling points are for that virgin can/bottle. Pretty much the next day after you open it you can consider it 'wet'.

If you ride all year, it's less likely to be a problem than if the bike gets stored. Moisture in the fluid sitting around the piston will cause corrosion in a ring at the level where the piston sticks out of the caliper. Then on that first ride, you force the piston in, but the ring of rust/pitting prevents it from coming back out and then there is smoke as the pads drag. Usually this means a new caliper in your future.

 

[RadioHowie]

I don't believe bleeding the brakes in a "conventional" manner on an ABS bike will also bleed the oil from the ABS system as well, you'll miss the oil in the ABS piping.

Really???

I'm no FJR ABS expert (yet) but from what I can discern reading the FSM and tracing hydraulic lines, the ABS assembly is in series between the reservoirs and the calipers, not parallel to the direct flow of fluid, so removing fluid from the caliper will pull fluid from the reservoirs, THROUGH the ABS unit, to the bleed nipples.

If BMWs work differently, I'm not really surprised. I mean really....have you checked out how their turn signals work?

 

[RadioHowie]

That squirt in the face of brake fluid will give you a hint why vacuum bleeders come in handy.

Who's the ******, Eric? You put a hose on that nipple and stick it in a jar with about a 1/2 inch of fresh fluid in the bottom.

That way, when ya start pumping the lever or pedal, the old icky goes in the jar while you keep the reservoir full. Plus, with the end of the hose immersed in fluid, you don't have to do the pump-loosen-tighten-release-pump-loosen-tighten-release-pump-loosen-tighten-release, etc.

The hose end is submerged, so it can't suck air back into the bleeder when you release the lever. So the routine becomes, with the hose attached and immersed, loosen-pump-pump-pump-fill-pump-pump-pump-fill-tighten. And you're done.

"Squirt in the face" indeed! <_<

I may have been born at night.....but it wasn't LAST night!

 

[user 213]

"Squirt in the face" indeed! <_<
I may have been born at night.....but it wasn't LAST night!

Still haven't bled your brakes, huh? The squirt comes from the other end. You'd know that by now if you'd done the dirty.

Jars and tubing? :lol: Step in to the 21st century RH.

 

[Wee Willy]

Brake fluids are rated for dry and wet boiling points. Race fluids have higher boiling points, but tend to be more hygroscopic. Real racers swap fluid often. Like before every race. Dry boiling points are for that virgin can/bottle. Pretty much the next day after you open it you can consider it 'wet'.

Amen brother OJ. We change the Motul in the Evo every 6 to 8 months because those brakes work hard. You can never have enough braking power because that is the key to going fast more than once.

I'll admit that I have not changed the Feejer yet...into it 1 year now and it's time. Will do it soon.

Remember...the middle pedal wins races.

Cheers,

W2

 

[cougar8000]

That squirt in the face of brake fluid will give you a hint why vacuum bleeders come in handy.
While we are at it, just a reminder, you can't vacuum bleed with Speed Bleeders in place.

WEll, I beg to differ as I did get a nice squirt with bleeders in place. And was lucky enough that the bike was covered fully.

Start with the bleed screw farthest away from the master cylinder and work to the closest. Works the same on any vehicle. As others said, for the FJR abs and non are the same procedure.

It sure does, but why Yamaha manual has no mention of a Front Left?

 

[user 213]

That squirt in the face of brake fluid will give you a hint why vacuum bleeders come in handy.
While we are at it, just a reminder, you can't vacuum bleed with Speed Bleeders in place.

WEll, I beg to differ as I did get a nice squirt with bleeders in place. And was lucky enough that the bike was covered fully.

Start with the bleed screw farthest away from the master cylinder and work to the closest. Works the same on any vehicle. As others said, for the FJR abs and non are the same procedure.

It sure does, but why Yamaha manual has no mention of a Front Left?

Usually you can't pull enough vacuum to open the Speed Bleeder valve on vacuum alone. Grabbing the handle or pedal will overcome that easily.

Front left? Maybe a Star engineer wrote that part of the manual? :blink:

 

[Crash Cash]

Yeah, I'm a cheap bastiche....no $50 expenditure for something I'll use once every 2 years. That's just silly.

Well, I consider my $15k and my $6K bikes to be worth it. The same tools work on both, and I do the change about once a year, because I hear corroded ABS units are $1200 clams, and I don't want to find that out first-hand, TYVM.

Dealing with brake fluid is a MAJOR PAIN IN THE *** so I consider any buckage for any tool that reduces the PITA factor to be well worth it.

I hate the feel of the stuff, I hate the smell of the stuff, I hate the taste of the stuff, and I hate what it does to anything it touches, especially painted metal. So the faster I can get it done and over, the better.

Plus if'n you don't like buying cool tools, you aren't a real man!

 

[wfooshee]

That spray-back while bleeding only happens (in my experience) if you get the reservoir too low. I did it once, and learned. Squeeze brake, open bleed screw, close bleed screw, release brake, and it had taken just a bit of air in and the reservoir became a volcano on the release. Of course, you have to start over on the bleed, then, too, pump that bubble all the way through. Tank was covered, but the side bag wasn't. Who'da thunk it could spray that far???

 

[Wee Willy]

...I hate the taste of the stuff...

So just what are we doing with the retired fluid? :dribble: Inquiring minds need to know.

 

[cougar8000]

That spray-back while bleeding only happens (in my experience) if you get the reservoir too low. I did it once, and learned. Squeeze brake, open bleed screw, close bleed screw, release brake, and it had taken just a bit of air in and the reservoir became a volcano on the release. Of course, you have to start over on the bleed, then, too, pump that bubble all the way through. Tank was covered, but the side bag wasn't. Who'da thunk it could spray that far???

I got a Fountain on my first push with a full reservoir.

 

[user 213]

That spray-back while bleeding only happens (in my experience) if you get the reservoir too low. I did it once, and learned. Squeeze brake, open bleed screw, close bleed screw, release brake, and it had taken just a bit of air in and the reservoir became a volcano on the release. Of course, you have to start over on the bleed, then, too, pump that bubble all the way through. Tank was covered, but the side bag wasn't. Who'da thunk it could spray that far???

I got a Fountain on my first push with a full reservoir.

That's what I got too. Thus my earlier comments.

 

[saread]

...I hate the taste of the stuff...

So just what are we doing with the retired fluid? :dribble: Inquiring minds need to know.

Check with your local solid waste folks. Around here, they have household hazmat centers where you can take stuff like this and get rid of it responsibly for free. They're only open a couple of days a week. I have gotten rid of some amazingly bad stuff from inside my garage no questions asked and no payment made. At the very least there should be a community hazmat pickup once or twice a year close to you where you can get rid of your nasty chemicals.

 

[gainsi]

Sorry for the delay in replying fellas...blame UPS ! I got the Mityvac 04000 which I believe is the cheapest metal Mityvac with the vacuum gauge.

As per the instructions, I pumped up to 10 in.Hg vacuum, cracked the bleeders & away you go. The rear brake & clutch are easy one man jobs. The front brake bleeders (on a Gen 1) are a little tricky so I got the wife to keep an eye on the fluid level in the master cylinder for me. Overall, the Mityvac was useful and makes this an easier job than it would otherwise be.

Before I replaced the brake fluids, I removed each caliper to check the pads. Remove the pads & use a piece a wood to 'brake on' to extend the brake pistons. Clean them up with a suitable brake cleaning aerosol. I have a little pitting on one of the right hand front pistons, but they are all much better for the clean. Push them slowly back into the caliper. Put some copper grease onto the back of the brake pad shims, & caliper bolts (for easier removal next time & to help prevent bi-metallic corrosion) & torque the bolts correctly.

I reckon a vacuum bleeder just to do the bike is $ well spent - I'll try it out on the car now to increase it's value to me !!

 

[broodwich]

This thread provides a lot of useful information on flushing the brake fluids, so thanks again to the great community of fellow riders. I was wondering if there were any pictorial how-tos on this subject for noobs like myself.

With the exception of the first couple of services I have been doing all the maintenance on the FJR myself but I have not yet flushed the brake fluids. I have an 05 ABS bike with far fewer miles than any 2005 FJR should have on it. I did have the fluids flushed for the front brake by a local dealer, but the other fluids have not yet been flushed. In other words they need to be done.

I have the service manual for my bike, so I have the official instructions but, I always look to a site like fjrtech.com before I begin any type of maintenance. Warchild (fjrtech.com) has info posted on the clutch reservoir flush, is the process the same for the brakes?

I'm leaving for a 4 day trip in about three weeks and I think it would be wise for me to flush these fluids before the trip. Servicing vehicles is a bit out of my comfort zone but I'm capable of doing the work. I'm just a noob and I don't want to screw anything up, especially when it comes to my ability to stop.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. It sounds like I should cover my FJR and myself in a full body condom before attempting this job. :blink:

 

[Constant Mesh]

Not all that important for the clutch system. None of the clutch system ever gets hot enough to boil the water which slowly accumulates in the fluid. So from a hydraulic perspective water works as well as brake fluid for operating the clutch slave cylinder. But, a rare change is desirable to minimize the potential for water related corrosion in the system.

 

[RadioHowie]

Not all that important for the clutch system. None of the clutch system ever gets hot enough to boil the water which slowly accumulates in the fluid. So from a hydraulic perspective water works as well as brake fluid for operating the clutch slave cylinder. But, a rare change is desirable to minimize the potential for water related corrosion in the system.

EXCELLENT point on the clutch line/water-in-the-fluid issue, CM. :thumbsupsmiley:

 

[iboldguy]

Bleeding ABS is no different. However, manual does not mention anything about front left bleeder. :dribble: and it should be bleed first. I just did mine the other day. I did not use mightyvac as I see it a waste of money. I did however installed speed bleeders that I sell. It is half the price and allows the job to be done on the side of the road in 5 min while holding a bottle. All procedure took less then an hour installing and bleeding, but next time I do it it will be a 5 min child play job. I will be installing them in another FJR next week and will try to document it.

The brake ABS system "has a hydraulic unit containing 3 control valves (each with solenoid valve, flow control valve), 2 buffer chambers, 2 hydraulic pumps and an ABS motor". The flow of brake fluid when brake is applied is into the hydraulic unit then to the caliper. The service manual under highlighted warning says bleed front brake first. My mighty vac says bleed the caliper closest to the resevoir first. The manual also says when bleeding rear brake bleed front caliper first.

My comments are: front brake which caliper is closest since both are fed via hydraulic unit? When reading description of how it works, it looks to me that if ABS is not activated, fluid pressure flows to the front calipers via hydraulic unit with no interference so bleeding should be normal - so why must we be warned to bleed it front brake system first? It also says if you let any air in through the resevoir, the system will be much harder to bleed.

my front brake fluid looks very dark so time to change. I think I'll change the clutch fluid first. My plan is to remove some fluid from the resevoir but not enough to allow air in, fill with new fluid, bleed a little, refill, bleed etc with the mighty vac until new fluid appears out of the bleeders. I've changed and bled non ABS motorcycle brakes no problem, maybe I'm being too anal about my first time (....err with ABS) <_<PS it reference hydraulic unit tests - necessary? or if ride down the block and hit the brakes hard a couple of times to see if all is OK

 

[Donal]

As far as I am aware, the 'warning' only applies to the linked brakes i.e rear master cylinder which feeds the rear plus the front right slave unit. When doing the 'rear' brake - bleed the linked front calliper first then the rear calliper.

Bleeding the front brake system is fairly normal. As stated previously, fluid is drawn from the master cylinder reservoir, through the ABS control block and out of the bleed nipple.

If you weren't confused before I bet you are now :yahoo:

Don

 

[ian]

Just changed the front brake and clutch fluid. I bought a plastic Mity-Vac a couple of years ago (marked $48 and then $33) and it still seemed to work well. Whole job took less than 30 minutes. Seem to remember reading somewhere that the metal Mity-Vac had a positive pressure nipple so you could push brake fluid in from the bottom to get rid if of trapped air bubbles. A 50-ml syringe should accomplish the same thing. Ian, Iowa