Clutch issue

[Falko]

I just did the clutch soak on my 09. I picked the bike up from the PO with 1300 miles on it, and I hit about 3500 and had enough. It was bad enough that coming to a stop light was dangerous as the bike wouldn't disengage and hard braking was needed to get the clutch to let go, actually stalled a few times. Shifting was hard, had to clutch then bump the throttle to knock the plates loose before shifting. Did the clutch soak and all is good now, night and day difference. Given the abuse the transmission is going through shifting with the clutch engaged, I would not wait on performing the soak, I am sorry I waited that long...

 

[mcatrophy]

...

5th - - - - - 4th @ 15.5 mph

4th - - - - - 3rd @ 15.5 mph

3rd - - - - - 2nd @ 15.5 mph

2nd - - - - - 1st @ 15.5 mph (with clunk)

In other words, don't downshift until you're at a crawl. Yeah, it sucks, ...

Not a good idea. There you are, slowing through 10mph in 5th, and some moron is texting on their cellphone behind you. How are you going to get out of their way?

Sort the problem (whether it's mechanical or your technique) so that you can change gear sensibly.

 

[Millsaps2]

My 2011 shifted very smooth compared to my '03 & '07. I put about 1500 miles on the bike before the 600 mile service with very smooth up shifting and down shifting. After the service the shifting was much worse. Up shifting required a lot of pressure and down shifting felt like the clutch was not disengaging. I notice the dealer put in only 4 quarts of oil, the level was mid-way the sight glass. I added another 1/2 quart of oil and after about 1000 miles the shifting is back to normal. The clutch seems sensitive to oil level.

 

[azitlies]

My 2011 shifted very smooth compared to my '03 & '07. I put about 1500 miles on the bike before the 600 mile service with very smooth up shifting and down shifting. After the service the shifting was much worse. Up shifting required a lot of pressure and down shifting felt like the clutch was not disengaging. I notice the dealer put in only 4 quarts of oil, the level was mid-way the sight glass. I added another 1/2 quart of oil and after about 1000 miles the shifting is back to normal. The clutch seems sensitive to oil level.

Ummmm, isn't the oil level Suppose to be mid way in the sight glass? And... a 1/2 quart is going to take that level way way higher then the top of the sight glass... in other words, it takes very little oil to change what you see in the glass, I'm guessing a 1/10 of a quart will go from middle to the very top.

Not discounting your experience, I'm sure what you felt was accurate. But my experience is that full synthetic oil will help shifting to be as smooth as possible. And that the amount of oil is 4.25 quarts, which should put the amount between the upper and lower line in the glass, with the bike on the center stand.

just my .02

 

[Donal]

My 2011 shifted very smooth compared to my '03 & '07. I put about 1500 miles on the bike before the 600 mile service with very smooth up shifting and down shifting. After the service the shifting was much worse. Up shifting required a lot of pressure and down shifting felt like the clutch was not disengaging. I notice the dealer put in only 4 quarts of oil, the level was mid-way the sight glass. I added another 1/2 quart of oil and after about 1000 miles the shifting is back to normal. The clutch seems sensitive to oil level.

Now that is a very interesting observation Allowing the oil level to rise will probably ensure the clutch plates are 'dipping' into the oil during initial start-up. This could help to keep the plates oil-wet. It will be interesting to see where this one goes

Don

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Allowing the oil level to rise will probably ensure the clutch plates are 'dipping' into the oil during initial start-up. This could help to keep the plates oil-wet. It will be

...

Don

Don't think there's any chance of a dip.

Bike on centre stand, height from ground to oil level window approximately 12 inches

(click on image for larger view)



Height to bottom of clutch housing approximately 15.75 inches



Height of clutch basket above bottom of housing perhaps 1 inch (sorry, not taking the cover off for an accurate measurement

)



Which I make something like 4.75 inches from nominal top of oil to bottom of clutch.

And, if the bike's on its side-stand, the clutch is even higher relative to the oil.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I recently use the Yamaha 5W-40W semi synth before leaving to go to EOM. The first time I used Synth in this bike. You can definitely feel the difference in shifting. Alas I still have a gallon of the regular yami oil 10-40 to use up. After that is gone I will be staying with the Yami semi synth oil. I still plan on doing a clutch soak someday. Or clutch replacement which ever comes first.

Man I hope i don't turn this into an oil thread.

 

[Donal]

...

Allowing the oil level to rise will probably ensure the clutch plates are 'dipping' into the oil during initial start-up. This could help to keep the plates oil-wet. It will be

...

Don

Don't think there's any chance of a dip.

Bike on centre stand, height from ground to oil level window approximately 12 inches

(click on image for larger view)



Height to bottom of clutch housing approximately 15.75 inches



Height of clutch basket above bottom of housing perhaps 1 inch (sorry, not taking the cover off for an accurate measurement

)



Which I make something like 4.75 inches from nominal top of oil to bottom of clutch.

And, if the bike's on its side-stand, the clutch is even higher relative to the oil.

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking measurements and posting pics. Seemed like a good idea at the time :blink: I was just hoping there might be a simple answer to this.

Don

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking measurements and posting pics. Seemed like a good idea at the time :blink: I was just hoping there might be a simple answer to this.

Don

No problem.

I'd remembered there was no possibility of oil draining from the clutch housing from when I did my clutch oil soak, because I'd checked before I did it. I couldn't remember what the distance was, so had to measure it to give an absolute answer here.

 

[HotRodZilla]

...

Thanks for going to the trouble of taking measurements and posting pics. Seemed like a good idea at the time :blink: I was just hoping there might be a simple answer to this.

Don

No problem.

I'd remembered there was no possibility of oil draining from the clutch housing from when I did my clutch oil soak, because I'd checked before I did it. I couldn't remember what the distance was, so had to measure it to give an absolute answer here.

Thanks for posting that up again. My new gasket for my upcoming clutch soak should be here today or tomorrow. I thought I had bookmarked your "soak" thread and found that I hadn't. Dork.

If you get a panicked PM from me in the next two weekends, please answer quickly!!

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Thanks for posting that up again. My new gasket for my upcoming clutch soak should be here today or tomorrow. I thought I had bookmarked your "soak" thread and found that I hadn't. Dork.

If you get a panicked PM from me in the next two weekends, please answer quickly!!

I'll keep an eye out!

For the record, my clutch soak has had the honour of being pinned in the FAQs and Common Historical Info section.

 

[HotRodZilla]

For the record, my clutch soak has had the honour of being pinned in the FAQs and Common Historical Info section.

That's because it's freaking awesome. Those are some of the best step-by-step instructions I have ever seen. Honestly, if I screw it up, it'll be proof that I'm dumber than Bustanut looks.

 

[someguy]

so, i'm reading this thread with great interest...

my experience on the FJR is a total of three bikes. 2006AE, 2008 w/ 10K miles and synthetic and my 2010 with 5K miles and yami lube conventional oil. (switching to amsoil synthetic at 10K.

I just spent the day on the friends 2008 and i really noticed a difference and i'd like the wisdom from this group:

the 08 shifts smooth as butter, it "sniks" into gear and is very sweet. it made me realize that mine is not so smooth!

my 2010 does not 'snick', it rather 'chinks' and is not nearly as smooth. Not a clunk like a harley, i've had several of those (no disrespecting the harley crowd, it's just different)

my riding style is the same for both.

is this a dry clutch plate issue???

i came off a VFR and the shifting was butter smooth... i miss that. and had just decided that maybe the bigger machine wasn't capable of it.

I could probably do this myself, but it's only 3 months old and would prefer it looked at professionally.

I appreciate everyones input here...

 

[azitlies]

so, i'm reading this thread with great interest...

my experience on the FJR is a total of three bikes. 2006AE, 2008 w/ 10K miles and synthetic and my 2010 with 5K miles and yami lube conventional oil. (switching to amsoil synthetic at 10K.

I just spent the day on the friends 2008 and i really noticed a difference and i'd like the wisdom from this group:

the 08 shifts smooth as butter, it "sniks" into gear and is very sweet. it made me realize that mine is not so smooth!

my 2010 does not 'snick', it rather 'chinks' and is not nearly as smooth. Not a clunk like a harley, i've had several of those (no disrespecting the harley crowd, it's just different)

my riding style is the same for both.

is this a dry clutch plate issue???

i came off a VFR and the shifting was butter smooth... i miss that. and had just decided that maybe the bigger machine wasn't capable of it.

I could probably do this myself, but it's only 3 months old and would prefer it looked at professionally.

I appreciate everyones input here...

My experience with my 08:

a few hundred miles ago did the clutch plate soak, followed mcatrophy link which is really the definitive one. Didn't do it because of difficult shifting, on the contrary, was always pretty good.

but, upon removing the plates, sure enough, oil only on the outside plates, the others were dry. The result is the clutch has more of a friction zone then before. And it seems more user friendly... if that makes sense.

My 08 has had full synthetic since first change (mobil 1 xt), it has never slipped, nor does getting on it in 2nd result in anything abnormal. I don't do that very often, but hey you want to check it to be sure.

And right now, with a little more then 11k miles, it snicks into gear better then ever before. Not sure why, it may just be it takes that long for things to break in...

I'd suggest: change to full synthetic now. Do a clutch plate soak now (I mean, it can't hurt anything, the gasket is about 17 dollars, all it can do is help).

good luck with it.

 

[azitlies]

Sorry, didn't respond to your "I could probably do this myself, but it's only 3 months old and would prefer it looked at professionally."

I understand and can relate to where you're coming from. Do you trust your dealer? That would be the big question for me. I trust my dealer but have not trusted other ones, and it only takes one bad experience to change your opinion.

should they know what they're doing? of course they should. Do they? there in lies the question.

My 08 is still under warranty. But after reading mcatrophy directions, decided to do it and then be sure it was done properly. No guessing about it.

just my .02, good luck with it.

 

[Fred W]

It really is a very easy procedure. I did it on my first gen just to see what was going on inside and mine were not stuck nor dry. I didn't net any improvement in clutching or shifting, but did net some peace of mind that mine was as good as it gets.

Yes, the VFR does shift "like buddah". No, the FJR never will. But it isn't all that much worse when it is right. The big difference in mine is the kerchunk you get when you shift from N to 1st. I only really do this after a cold start anymore, preferring to start the bike in gear to avoid it the rest of the time. But on a cold engine I'd rather give the starter the easiest time turning over the lumbering beast and just wince for the kerchunk.

 

[UselessPickles]

Can anyone point to the source of info stating that the pink dots on the clutch plates must be aligned between the triangles on the clutch basket (and why)? I couldn't find any mention of these pink dots in the service manual.

The big difference in mine is the kerchunk you get when you shift from N to 1st. I only really do this after a cold start anymore, preferring to start the bike in gear to avoid it the rest of the time. But on a cold engine I'd rather give the starter the easiest time turning over the lumbering beast and just wince for the kerchunk.

Try disengaging the clutch in neutral then blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st (let the "blip" completely return to idle before shifting). That breaks the clutch free and gives me a nice "snick" into 1st most of the time.

 

[someguy]

Azitlies, thank you for your input, and now worries... yes, i have a yamaha dealer in Cleveland TN, and they have two mechs, i trust both and one is, i believe, outstanding.

i don't know how exactly to ask for it done, under warranty, however... anything special i should say specifically?

I too get the significant 'kerchunk' when going from neut to 1st... i always warm up before rolling...

i'll try the clutch trick.

now to my ignorance: if i warm the bike up, 4 bars, ease outa there to the main road, and roll through the gears (not abuse mine you) am i doing harm in the 1 - 2 shift???

 

[azitlies]

Azitlies, thank you for your input, and now worries... yes, i have a yamaha dealer in Cleveland TN, and they have two mechs, i trust both and one is, i believe, outstanding.

i don't know how exactly to ask for it done, under warranty, however... anything special i should say specifically?

I too get the significant 'kerchunk' when going from neut to 1st... i always warm up before rolling...

i'll try the clutch trick.

now to my ignorance: if i warm the bike up, 4 bars, ease outa there to the main road, and roll through the gears (not abuse mine you) am i doing harm in the 1 - 2 shift???

Well... one issue many people seemed to have encountered when talking to a dealer about the difficulty shifting thing was for them to respond with "it's still being broken in, put more miles on it".

it's a dilemma for both you and the dealership. The dealership has no recall on the subject. You have some internet forum information and the first thing many dealerships say is "don't listen to what's said on the internet".

round and round we go...

Tell the dealership, assuming they are still listening to you, that some owners had hard shifting and it resulted in bent gear dogs (evidenced by hard roll on in 2nd gear and it pops out of gear), and to fix that the engine has to come out of the bike and completely broken down and the transmission has to be disassembled. Do a search here for threads created by "ponyfool", he's the one that did this repair himself, and also discovered yamaha made changes to the gear dogs in 08, presumably to help with this problem, but no one has acknowledged that.

It's hard to tell if any damage is being done, that's why I say it's best to just go to synthetic now, and if you can't talk your dealership into doing the clutch plate soak, just do it yerself. It seems apparent, I think everyone who has done this has found most of the clutch plates to be dry, it simply should be done, hard shifting or not.

good luck with it.

 

[someguy]

awesome

thank you