Clutch issue

[Fred W]

Try disengaging the clutch in neutral then blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st (let the "blip" completely return to idle before shifting). That breaks the clutch free and gives me a nice "snick" into 1st most of the time.

Hmmm... Now that makes some sense. I'll give it a try.

I have also noticed that if I am patient enough to pull in the clutch and just wait a really long time (like 60 seconds) it doesn't kerchunk as much. I assume that what is happening is that the secondary side of the clutch freewheels so easily in neutral that the small amount of normal drag in the disengaged clutch is able to keep it spinning for a while after the clutch lever is pulled in. I've listened to enough other FJRs to realize that they all do this to some extent.

Someone a while back suggested "pumping" the clutch lever in and out a few times before shifting into first. This never made any sense to me based on my concept of the cause and never worked to reduced my kerchunk either. Breaking the clutch halves free with a blip of throttle makes much more sense than that.

 

[Constant Mesh]

Before a cold start I always select 1st gear, pull in the clutch lever and then from the seat walk the bike backwards out of the garage. This breaks loose the clutch plates for several revolutions before starting the engine in 1st gear. I ride off while the engine is still in cold start, elevated rpm mode. Might as well move me down the road while it's warming.

The clutch plates do seem to be stuck pretty tight after setting overnight or longer. But they break loose easily with a firm backwards shuffling launch.

I never start the bike in neutral except when I'm in the service and maintenance mode.

 

[azitlies]

Before a cold start I always select 1st gear, pull in the clutch lever and then from the seat walk the bike backwards out of the garage. This breaks loose the clutch plates for several revolutions before starting the engine in 1st gear. I ride off while the engine is still in cold start, elevated rpm mode. Might as well move me down the road while it's warming.

The clutch plates do seem to be stuck pretty tight after setting overnight or longer. But they break loose easily with a firm backwards shuffling launch.

I never start the bike in neutral except when I'm in the service and maintenance mode.

Experience the same thing. a good push and they break loose. Honestly can't remember this happening with other bikes I've had...

My fjr anyway, does go into 1st pretty much the same as other bikes I've had though. They all seem to clunk into first a little bit, especially when cold. Have read where others have said their bikes would actually stall... now somethings wrong there for sure if your bike is doing that.

 

[Fred W]

My other two bikes both snick into first with nary a kerchunk only a second or two of wait time after pulling in the clutch. I think it has to do with the FJR's engine design. The clutch is up very high, not really in the oil at all, and the bearing resistance is very light. So even when you disengage the clutch, the secondary side still wants to spin along with the primary, until you stop it suddenly by engaging the gear dogs.

Thinking out loud here: I don't think that I've ever tried initially engaging 2nd from neutral to see if there is any difference. I'd doubt that there should be, but....

 

[dcarver]

...

Allowing the oil level to rise will probably ensure the clutch plates are 'dipping' into the oil during initial start-up. This could help to keep the plates oil-wet. It will be

...

Don

Don't think there's any chance of a dip.

Bike on centre stand, height from ground to oil level window approximately 12 inches

(click on image for larger view)



Height to bottom of clutch housing approximately 15.75 inches



Height of clutch basket above bottom of housing perhaps 1 inch (sorry, not taking the cover off for an accurate measurement

)



Which I make something like 4.75 inches from nominal top of oil to bottom of clutch.

And, if the bike's on its side-stand, the clutch is even higher relative to the oil.

I've identified the root cause issue. The side stand is on the wrong side.

I recently use the Yamaha 5W-40W semi synth before leaving to go to EOM. The first time I used Synth in this bike. You can definitely feel the difference in shifting. Alas I still have a gallon of the regular yami oil 10-40 to use up. After that is gone I will be staying with the Yami semi synth oil. I still plan on doing a clutch soak someday. Or clutch replacement which ever comes first.

Man I hope i don't turn this into an oil thread.

It won't. But full syn or running additives GM EOS does help.

 

[RadioHowie]

....if I screw it up, it'll be proof that I'm dumber than Bustanut looks.

NOT possible, unless you happen to be a cucumber.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Ok...So it's cold today, I skipped work, and two of my kids went down for a nap...So the only thing left to do was take my clutch apart.

From the time I grabbed the keys to thetime I was cleaned up and back on the couch was less than an hour and 45 minutes.

Everything came apart fine, and I took my right lower fairing all the way off just so I could see WTF I was doing. I cleaned the mating surfaces on the cover and the bike with some ScotchBrite. They look new and are smooth.

All my dots on my plates were lined up correctly, and the plates were slightly oily. However, the first plate and the metal ring behind it were stuck to the retaining plate...That can't have been good.

So, they are soaking now, and I'll re-install them tomorrow. Hopefully this'll smooth stuff out.

 

[someguy]

ok, i searched, but maybe i missed it:

regarding the procedure for putting the spring plate retainer back on and the 6 bolts holding it in place:

tighten to what torque spec??

and do you locktight??

sorry if this is a dumb question...

 

[Blue Crab]

When I picked up my used '07 back in May, I hated the way it shifted... it was always difficult shifting gears. At first I thought it was the clutch but it turned out to be a VERY simple fix... I adjusted the foot shifter lever upwards toward the top-limit mark, now it shifts like a dream. Thinking that it might be a placebo effect, I adjusted it back to the center position after a few weeks... and wouldn't you know, I had a horrible time shifting the gears again.

So, before taking your clutch apart and soaking it in oil, try adjusting the foot shifter lever. Loosen two nuts and turn the shaft to adjust. Worth a try.

Steve

 

[mcatrophy]

ok, i searched, but maybe i missed it:

regarding the procedure for putting the spring plate retainer back on and the 6 bolts holding it in place:

tighten to what torque spec??

and do you locktight??

sorry if this is a dumb question...

"Tighten the clutch spring bolts in stages and in a criss-cross pattern"

The Book says 5.8 ft lbs, doesn't mention locktight. I just used my wrist feel, which I trust for most screws.

 

[HotRodZilla]

ok, i searched, but maybe i missed it:

regarding the procedure for putting the spring plate retainer back on and the 6 bolts holding it in place:

tighten to what torque spec??

and do you locktight??

sorry if this is a dumb question...

There was no locktight on mine and they broke loose pretty easily. I'm not gonna use a torque wrench putting them back on. I'll just go for tight, but not crazy tight. I donno if it's just because my bike is in neutral, but the clutch wanted to spin a couple times breaking them loose. I figure I'll tighen until it tries to spin the other way.

Watch me break something...

 

[dsmack]

There was no locktight on mine and they broke loose pretty easily. I'm not gonna use a torque wrench putting them back on. I'll just go for tight, but not crazy tight. I donno if it's just because my bike is in neutral, but the clutch wanted to spin a couple times breaking them loose. I figure I'll tighen until it tries to spin the other way.

Watch me break something...

... Waiting for the final chapter to this saga... GO Zilla!

 

[Usul]

Procrastination pays off! So, I've had the issue that I originally described for the last 6000 miles. I've tossed the idea around in my head to get the clutch soak done either by the dealer or just do it myself but I've also been thinking about fixing the third step on my porch for longer than this and that's still not done. Anyway, one day last week I rode the bike to work much like any other day and I noticed it shifting much smoother all of the sudden. I tried a quick 3-2 downshift and *snick* it went right in slick as you please! I've never been able to do a quick downshift on this bike! Since then this feels like a new bike! I've been running full synth since 1000 miles so I wouldn't say that has anything to do with it. We've been having a heat wave here in the northeast so the bike has gotten very warm ( not overheating) lately. Maybe some hot oil finally unstuck some plates? I don't know if I woul give the "wait and see" advice to someone else but it worked for me.

 

[azitlies]

Procrastination pays off! So, I've had the issue that I originally described for the last 6000 miles. I've tossed the idea around in my head to get the clutch soak done either by the dealer or just do it myself but I've also been thinking about fixing the third step on my porch for longer than this and that's still not done. Anyway, one day last week I rode the bike to work much like any other day and I noticed it shifting much smoother all of the sudden. I tried a quick 3-2 downshift and *snick* it went right in slick as you please! I've never been able to do a quick downshift on this bike! Since then this feels like a new bike! I've been running full synth since 1000 miles so I wouldn't say that has anything to do with it. We've been having a heat wave here in the northeast so the bike has gotten very warm ( not overheating) lately. Maybe some hot oil finally unstuck some plates? I don't know if I woul give the "wait and see" advice to someone else but it worked for me.

Well that's pretty much why (your experience) the Dealers and (thus) the Dealerships say... "put more miles on it..." or "wait... it'll be fine..."

and while that works for "most"... it doesn't work for everyone! (see the bent gear dog threads...)

Listen... no offense. If yours is shifting fine, more power to you. But should we be riding with our fingers crossed? hoping? come on, this is a mfg / design issue... fix it. please.

 

[Usul]

Procrastination pays off! So, I've had the issue that I originally described for the last 6000 miles. I've tossed the idea around in my head to get the clutch soak done either by the dealer or just do it myself but I've also been thinking about fixing the third step on my porch for longer than this and that's still not done. Anyway, one day last week I rode the bike to work much like any other day and I noticed it shifting much smoother all of the sudden. I tried a quick 3-2 downshift and *snick* it went right in slick as you please! I've never been able to do a quick downshift on this bike! Since then this feels like a new bike! I've been running full synth since 1000 miles so I wouldn't say that has anything to do with it. We've been having a heat wave here in the northeast so the bike has gotten very warm ( not overheating) lately. Maybe some hot oil finally unstuck some plates? I don't know if I woul give the "wait and see" advice to someone else but it worked for me.

Well that's pretty much why (your experience) the Dealers and (thus) the Dealerships say... "put more miles on it..." or "wait... it'll be fine..."

and while that works for "most"... it doesn't work for everyone! (see the bent gear dog threads...)

Listen... no offense. If yours is shifting fine, more power to you. But should we be riding with our fingers crossed? hoping? come on, this is a mfg / design issue... fix it. please.

Just relating my experience...not giving advice. And I agree that if you pay $15000 for a new vehicle, it should work perfectly. And in all honesty I was going to do the clutch soak but I'm just glad that it resolved itself before I did that.

 

[azitlies]

Procrastination pays off! So, I've had the issue that I originally described for the last 6000 miles. I've tossed the idea around in my head to get the clutch soak done either by the dealer or just do it myself but I've also been thinking about fixing the third step on my porch for longer than this and that's still not done. Anyway, one day last week I rode the bike to work much like any other day and I noticed it shifting much smoother all of the sudden. I tried a quick 3-2 downshift and *snick* it went right in slick as you please! I've never been able to do a quick downshift on this bike! Since then this feels like a new bike! I've been running full synth since 1000 miles so I wouldn't say that has anything to do with it. We've been having a heat wave here in the northeast so the bike has gotten very warm ( not overheating) lately. Maybe some hot oil finally unstuck some plates? I don't know if I woul give the "wait and see" advice to someone else but it worked for me.

Well that's pretty much why (your experience) the Dealers and (thus) the Dealerships say... "put more miles on it..." or "wait... it'll be fine..."

and while that works for "most"... it doesn't work for everyone! (see the bent gear dog threads...)

Listen... no offense. If yours is shifting fine, more power to you. But should we be riding with our fingers crossed? hoping? come on, this is a mfg / design issue... fix it. please.

Just relating my experience...not giving advice. And I agree that if you pay $15000 for a new vehicle, it should work perfectly. And in all honesty I was going to do the clutch soak but I'm just glad that it resolved itself before I did that.

Completely understood. No intention to indicate otherwise, none, nada. Sorry if that didn't come across clearly.

And I agree, with the kind of money involved here... should anyone have to be saying to themselves... "should I do a clutch soak?" "should I not?", "Maybe I will?", "Maybe I can get a way with not doing it?", "Should I even be thinking about this?", "Didn't I already pay enough money?"

Look, I loved my Feej, I really did. But I had 3 Hondas prior to it (st1300 and 2 VFR 800's), none of them ever needed anything remotely related to a "clutch soak"... they always "snipped" into gear, up or down, no issues.

C'mon Yama Mama! what does that tell you? fix this. fix this now. It can't be that hard can it?

Sorry for the rant, just don't think this is the sort of thing any of us should be dealing with. This sort of thing should function properly, right from the get go.

 

[u wish]

thought id chime in here,I bought a 2007 with 216 miles on it from a dealer in march of this year(2012) so this cycle had been sitting for a bit.I had to rev it up a bit when downshifting when bike was cold from day one.I could hear the clutch plates break free when doing this.I changed oil out to mobil racing 4 t 10/40 at 600 miles and decided to just ride the **** out of it for a bit before doing the clutch soak.(since i commute on it it gets ridden almost everyday) I now have a bit over 6k on the bike and it shifts both up and down shift like it should.BUT this didnt happen until a weekend sitting in heavy heavy traffic at Americade for 3 DAYS straight doing slow rides on the main drag thing.maybe this could help somone out maybe not, but it worked for this bike.ps NOW IF THEY PUT THE THROTTLE STARTING POINT A BIT HIGHER ON THE ROTATION I WOULD LOVE THIS BIKE, BUT FOR NOW I JUST RIDE IT.

 

[azitlies]

thought id chime in here,I bought a 2007 with 216 miles on it from a dealer in march of this year(2012) so this cycle had been sitting for a bit.I had to rev it up a bit when downshifting when bike was cold from day one.I could hear the clutch plates break free when doing this.I changed oil out to mobil racing 4 t 10/40 at 600 miles and decided to just ride the **** out of it for a bit before doing the clutch soak.(since i commute on it it gets ridden almost everyday) I now have a bit over 6k on the bike and it shifts both up and down shift like it should.BUT this didnt happen until a weekend sitting in heavy heavy traffic at Americade for 3 DAYS straight doing slow rides on the main drag thing.maybe this could help somone out maybe not, but it worked for this bike.ps NOW IF THEY PUT THE THROTTLE STARTING POINT A BIT HIGHER ON THE ROTATION I WOULD LOVE THIS BIKE, BUT FOR NOW I JUST RIDE IT.

Good points U WISH... but I'd still have to say to Yama Mama... again... do we have to cross our fingers and hope? U know what it costs if the gear dogs have to be replaced right? U know we have to fight u to get warranty work done? should we have to be doing this? At this entry price?

How hard can it be to redesign this and make the "wet" clutch an actual "wet" clutch?

 

[u wish]

thought id chime in here,I bought a 2007 with 216 miles on it from a dealer in march of this year(2012) so this cycle had been sitting for a bit.I had to rev it up a bit when downshifting when bike was cold from day one.I could hear the clutch plates break free when doing this.I changed oil out to mobil racing 4 t 10/40 at 600 miles and decided to just ride the **** out of it for a bit before doing the clutch soak.(since i commute on it it gets ridden almost everyday) I now have a bit over 6k on the bike and it shifts both up and down shift like it should.BUT this didnt happen until a weekend sitting in heavy heavy traffic at Americade for 3 DAYS straight doing slow rides on the main drag thing.maybe this could help somone out maybe not, but it worked for this bike.ps NOW IF THEY PUT THE THROTTLE STARTING POINT A BIT HIGHER ON THE ROTATION I WOULD LOVE THIS BIKE, BUT FOR NOW I JUST RIDE IT.

Good points U WISH... but I'd still have to say to Yama Mama... again... do we have to cross our fingers and hope? U know what it costs if the gear dogs have to be replaced right? U know we have to fight u to get warranty work done? should we have to be doing this? At this entry price?

How hard can it be to redesign this and make the "wet" clutch an actual "wet" clutch?

o i hear you!! in fact im not sure i would even buy the 07 again knowing what i know now.

 

[HotRodZilla]

There was no locktight on mine and they broke loose pretty easily. I'm not gonna use a torque wrench putting them back on. I'll just go for tight, but not crazy tight. I donno if it's just because my bike is in neutral, but the clutch wanted to spin a couple times breaking them loose. I figure I'll tighen until it tries to spin the other way.

Watch me break something...

... Waiting for the final chapter to this saga... GO Zilla!

Thankfully it was NOT a saga. Clutch went back together as easily as it came apart. After the soak, the bike shifts much smoother. I'm pretty happy with it at this point.