clutch soak, transmission in gear, or in neutral

[stevet]

Hi gang,

I'm going to dive into the deep end and do a clutch soak on my 2010 FJR. I've got my factory service manual, Youtube video of the procedure, and previous write-ups with photos ready to guide me.

Except one question I need answered. Should the transmission be in gear, or in neutral? Unless I've missed it, I didn't see this mentioned anyplace, and I don't know if it's important.

Does it matter?

Thanks,

Steve.

 

[Mr. BR]

It doesn't matter.... but neutral prob best.. Gives you the freedom to rotate inner clutch hub if needed during assembly I suppose.

Mr.BR

 

[stevet]

Thanks!

Just got the cover off. No gasket!

But, I've never had any leakage. Buy a gasket? Use some sealant?

Steve.

 

[Kaelaria]

Make sure it's just not stuck to the cover, it can look like metal. Buy a new gasket.

 

[mcatrophy]

When I did mine, it stuck to the cover, but with some minor tearing.

(Click on image for larger view, click on that for the original, you can see detail of the gasket)



I replaced the gasket on this episode which was my '06.

I also soaked my '10 without replacing the gasket, picture below:



No issues.

 

[RaYzerman19]

If the gasket is still there, there's not much to worry about leakwise. There is no real oil or pressure behind the cover except some splashing around inside. If you like, you could use a smear of RTV if you've got a torn spot. Same goes for the timing chain cover, we've done many valve checks and rarely replace the gasket. There's plenty of fasteners to provide uniform pressure all around it.

 

[HelzBelz]

If the gasket is still there, there's not much to worry about leakwise. There is no real oil or pressure behind the cover except some splashing around inside.

Which is exactly why some need to be soaked, by the way. I almost feel like there should be a filler plug in that side, so when you do an oil change, you can throw a half quart in the right side.

 

[stevet]

disregard

 

[stevet]

Yep, there was a gasket, stuck by its edge to the clutch cover by factory engine paint. VERY well disguised. It did come off and was in good condition. I installed it back on the case over the locator pins, then installed the cover.

After cleaning, the friction plates got a good 3 hours of soaking inside of a gallon Ziploc bag in a nice bath of fresh YammyLube 20/50. Every 30 minutes or so, I'd move the plates around, squishing the oil about inside the bag. A zip tie loosely wrapped at the pink dots kept all the plates in proper order of removal. I let the plates be good and wet as I reinstalled them, figuring the spring tension of the system would squeeze out excess. I put a black Sharpie mark at the 12:00 of every bolt and part I removed to assure identical re-installation.

I put a digital caliper on the friction and steel plates, all were fine, plenty of wear left. Pretty good for having this sticky clutch for 26000 miles. Although no local dealer had parts in stock, cover gaskets go for about $19, and a new stack of friction plates would be around $120-130. Good to know for the future. It started up without issue- no funny noises, no error codes.

The outer plates were wet at disassembly, as others have found, but the inner plates were essentially dry. Nothing was stuck together, but the inner plates did have some of that gooey schmutz between the fiber pads on the friction plates so I took some time to wipe all that out with clean rags.

All the pink dots were in alignment when I opened the clutch, and installed in the "2 triangle" position. That fine wire retention gizmo at the back inside of the plate set was okay to get out, and quite, uh, fun to get back in place. Thank goodness for old dental picks.

One more venture into the unknown. Hopefully I won't have to do that again anytime too soon.

Mr. BR, I left in neutral and yes, I did need to rotate the basket when working with that retention wire.

mcatrophy, that detailed photo how-to of yours was a great help to me to tackle this project, thanks a lot for doing that posting!

Time to take it for a test ride...

Thanks,

Steve.

 

[fjrob1300]

It's my understanding that in a wet clutch system the clutch is always in an oil bath. The only time I used the oil bath was when I installed new clutch plates.

 

[gixxerjasen]

So easy, a six year old can do it.

Little fingers work well in there.

And yea, you are right about on the money with your parts estimate, hopefully yours last longer than mine did.

 

[mcatrophy]

It's my understanding that in a wet clutch system the clutch is always in an oil bath. The only time I used the oil bath was when I installed new clutch plates.

Compare the height of the oil sight glass and the height of the clutch housing.

We have a damp clutch, not a wet one.

[edit] Found pictures ...

(Click on image for larger view)



[/edit]

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Your clutch/gearbox will works very smooth for some time but,the centrifugal force will dry the plates soon again..

I have done this job three times and after some time i had the same issue..''Dry plates'' not much,but dry..

So,i stopped to do that job again..

 

[Mihalis fjr]

It's my understanding that in a wet clutch system the clutch is always in an oil bath. The only time I used the oil bath was when I installed new clutch plates.

Compare the height of the oil sight glass and the height of the clutch housing.
We have a damp clutch, not a wet one.

+1!

 

[Constant Mesh]

The grooved thrust washer on the main axle just behind the clutch boss supplies oil to the inner plates. The outer plates receive oil thrown off from the crankshaft.

When you disengage the clutch and the plates separate a bit, oil from the crankshaft is introduced down into the outer plates. This oil is not affected by the centrifugal force of the rotating clutch so it can easily enter the plates -- it's being sprayed in from an external source.

It's likely difficult to get oil down into the inner plates due to the centrifugal force. Maybe it's enough just to lube the friction plate tabs on the outer edge. This will help the plates slide apart a bit when the clutch lever is pulled.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

For whatever reason,there is an issue with no much oil in the plates.The mama Yamaha should care more to resolve it.

In my friend's 07 fjr one fiber plate was so dry from oil,stuck and broke.I don't know why and how but it broke in three pieces..

 

[stevet]

I've got 30 or so miles on my handiwork, lots of deliberate neighborhood wandering with lots of clutch action, and holding in the clutch at stoplights. Honestly, if I would not have known the work was done, I'd have a hard time saying it was done. Maybe the shift action is slightly smoother in the upper 4 gears, but she still argues about going into 1st from neutral (at stops) on most attempts. But I think this 1st gear behavior is typical across the history of the FJR. So, I'll be happy with whatever it gives me. I also work hard to find that sweet spot in letting off throttle (amount, and timing of it) while pulling in the clutch lever, and most of the time I'm putting a bit of preload under the toe shift lever. When I nail this combination, it shifts sweet everywhere, except neutral to 1st at a stop.

At my upcoming 26000 mile maintenance, I'll have the hydraulic fluids changed (unless I delve into that work and learn yet another new thing), that may help some(?). The greatest help to smoother shifting, before yesterday's work, was moving the clutch lever all the way back out to position #1 from the position #5 I've had it at all along, pretty much since new. Now I'm getting used to the new position of the friction zone (you'd think I was a brand new rider after making that change) and the longer reach to the lever. I've come across references at a few FJR/sport touring sites about going back to position #1 to get smoother shifting, and it's working for me. After a few more days I may put it at #2, a bit of a compromise, to bring in the lever a tad bit. (I must not have the hands of Donald Trump...)

I guess it's just another little quirk to remind me that this is, in fact, a machine.

Steve.

 

[RaYzerman19]

2009 up returned to the Gen1 clutch slave which had a lower effort but a longer stroke of the lever required to completely disengage the clutch. If your lever wasn't adjusted so it disengaged the clutch when the lever hit the bar, or if you didn't quite hold it to the bar, it would explain your difficulties. It also helps to keep the clutch bled (once a year?) to ensure max efficiency.

 

[Fred W]

Why all the churn. What symptoms are you having?

Maybe it isn't a dragging clutch, or maybe it has nothing to do with "dry clutch plates"?