Clutch Soak with SH_26

[drdevil44]

That's all I could do at first was 1st and 2nd. Slowly the others come on. Try to ride it if you can getting it to slip clutch as well.

If it starts violently juddering dont panic, just keep going through the juddering and it'll improve.

I think the oil on the plates may cause excessive sticking and the computer overreacts causing the juddering.

 

[mcatrophy]

Ok, you seem to have sorted it, excellent. When I started typing this your last entry wasn't there!

So, this is my take, but I've never had such a deep problem, only the SH__26, - (from my original post):

OK, confession time. When I put it back together, I made the mistake of putting all my tools away and tidying up before testing. When I then turned on the ignition, it gave me a "SH__26" error code, which means the clutch movement isn't what is expected. I took it all apart and re-assembled it, taking extra care that everything was seated correctly, and this time it was fine. I suspect either the innermost friction plate wasn't properly round the ring it sits round, or the pressure plate's dogs weren't seated properly in the splines. I've noted the care needed for these items in the captions.

What I didn't say was that in my "moment of panic", I removed the outer case and tried operating the gear change with the cover off. I could see some movement, but I didn't know what movement was "right". So then I did my 2nd disassembly.

Suggestions:

1. Being in gear makes no difference to anything you do disassembling and reassembling the clutch, all it means is it won't be free to rotate, which really doesn't matter. In any case, if you desperately want to get it into neutral, you still can by working on the mechanism that the actuator operates, this is explained in your owner's manual.

2. I am fairly sure even on your second attempt either you hadn't got everything seated exactly right, or you had somehow pushed the operating rod back further than it would normally go. Compare the need to operate the clutch many times to get the operation correct with having to operate your brake lever several times if you've pushed you pads back. Maybe.

Now you're back to SH__26, and SH__13, you've had an SH__17.

SH__26 : "Abnormal clutch movement is detected during check when main switch is turned to ON" - "Detected clutch motor current when main switch is turned ON is too high."

SH__17 : "Detected clutch actuator position is incorrect" - "Detected clutch actuator position is different from MCU (motor control unit) signals."

SH__13 : "Overcurrent to clutch actuator motor" - "Detected current in shift actuator motor is too high."

The impression I have is that yours still isn't assembled correctly, and it is jamming or whatever. Either that or something in there is bent/broken.

I don't think air in the hydraulics could lead to the "over current" issues, though they would lead to poor engagement when trying to ride.

I would suggest taking it apart again, make sure there are no foreign bodies in there, re-assemble taking care over both positioning and inside/outside faces.

This shows the inner ring in place . . . . .and the inner friction plate that goes round it.

(Click on any image for larger view)



Make sure the dogs on the pressure pressure engage properly with the splines.



Make sure the plate seating ring is faced the right way round

Outside face . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Inside face



Make sure the spring plate is correctly positioned, and that the spring plate retainer's screws are done up gradually in a criss-cross manner.



I'm also assuming your 2008 has the same clutch as my 2006, the 2009? has a slightly different arrangement with a retaining spring thingy for the innermost plate - item 8 in the exploded view, and pictured in skifrik's picture.



Beyond that, It's difficult to know what might be wrong.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

OK. Tried again. SH_26, start by turning off and on the key while holding in starter button and brake lever. Starts right up, no errors. Shift to first, tire turns at about walking speed. Shift to second, won't go, SH_17 and can't shift anywhere from there. Repeated 5 times. No improvement. Ticking sound in clutch area only happens when in gear. Again. On center stand. I live on a hill so I can't go anywhere or I won't get back. Once it's in 1st gear, I cannot shift to neutral. Won't go. Fun isn't it? It's just like reliving the horrors you've experienced. Staying positive. Love my bike.

 

[drdevil44]

Yes I had the same, got into first couldn't shift out. Keep going - recycle ignition. It doesn't resolve quickly - think I spent best part of 90minutes at it.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Yes I had the same, got into first couldn't shift out. Keep going - recycle ignition. It doesn't resolve quickly - think I spent best part of 90minutes at it.

will do.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

mcatrophy,

Thanks for the informative post. I'm quite sure that everything you mentioned is in order. I paid special attention to the rings and splines to be sure it was buttoned up correctly. The first time I put it together, I put the seating ring in first and then the black friction plate. I fixed that the second time around being careful that I did every thing correctly. I studied all of our pictures over and over after a good nights sleep to be sure I wouldn't have to open the clutch up for a 3rd time. All bolts are torqued to spec as well. It appears that the oil is causing some issues, but I can't be sure. This is a real mystery and I am confident that all will end up well. Please keep up with this thread and jump in at any time with ideas and suggestions. I really appreciate all of your help and the help of my other new friend drdevil. Back to starting bike and shifting into first gear for ***** and giggles.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Another 10 minute round of starting, shifting to first, then getting the error code of SH_17 as usual. Can't shift back to neutral or 2nd gear. I manually move the actuator arm forward to get back into neutral. I can shift back to first only if I restart. I can manually manipulate the actuator arm back and forth to go from neutral to first and back to neutral. I did this several times rather than restarting for each shift into 1st gear. No improvement to this point, but according to drdevil, it's early in the process yet. I'll go back to the garage and repeat the procedure in a few minutes. This is very frustrating. It seems the need to bleed the clutch lines should not be necessary after oiling the clutch friction plates. The whole process brings on many new questions for the AE. Interesting though.

 

[drdevil44]

try to ride it if you can that's when improvements came fast for me. Even if just first gear back and forth on driveway. I think the slipping of clutch helped significantly.

I think a note should be put on forum not to do soak on AE. I think there is a reason that Yamaha don't recognise it. I was 200 miles away at family house needing to travel home that evening so I had a real panic

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

My driveway is paved, but rather small with kids cars parked in it. No direction to ride. The road from my house heads down hill both ways. I'd never get back up either hill to get home and it's hot outside. If I begin to get more power in first, I'll do just that. What's puzzling about not recommending the procedure for AE bikes is others didn't have the same problems we had. The pressure plates were pretty wet putting them back into the clutch. I thought that would be a good thing. I notice that even shifting into 1st is a big clunk as it's always been even with all the oil in there. Shifting while riding has always been quite smooth after getting over the clunk into 1st. In the past, the only clunk was shifting from neutral to 1st gear. You only have to do that only when starting out. Shifting from 2nd to 1st has always been rather smooth as shifting into all other gears. At this point, I can't shift at all. I'm working to improve that. Not making much progress at this point though.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

mcatrophy,

I wanted to confirm that the 2008 AE does not have the retaining spring for the final friction plate as does the 2009. I know it sounds contradictory to oil a "friction" plate, but I see that it has worked well for others. Not so great for myself or drdevil in our experiences. Still puzzling though.

 

[drdevil44]

Hmm I can only tell you what worked for me. I managed to get it to shift into first after a while, then rode it back and forth in garden and alternated riding with copious shifting and it improved. Afterward, the shifts were very rough, far rougher than before soak. I then bought a suction bleeder and did that and it solved it.

I'm not sure of the cause. Clearly oil coating had a detrimental effect and my father believes the improvement was down to getting excess oil off plates. I believe it was more to do with hydraulics recalibrating... possibly with computer too. Could be both - probably my father is right.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Odd, it seems the AE's are the ones that benefit the most from the clutch soak. Mine sure did, but it had been sitting in a storage shed at a car dealer for a while too.

I'm following along as I'm interested in the end result here.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

This time I bled the clutch line more. It sure seems like there's much more air than fluid coming through my mitey vac, but didn't get any better after bleeding it for 10 min. I expected the fluid to eventually come through solid as when bleeding the brakes. No such likeness. Started bike on center stand again and shifted to first. It actually shifted back to neutral without me having to do it manually. With increased acceleration (slowly), I can now build up some speed in 1st gear (on the stand). Shifted through 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th and back to first. It would not shift back to neutral, I had to do that manually. Turned it off and gave it a rest. I'm going to try to ride it after I eat and see if there is any more improvement as I travel down the road. My son said he couldn't hear the clicking in the clutch anymore, but bangin' through all those gears, I don't know how he could hear the clutch if he wanted to. At least a little improvement. I'll post again after riding it if it allows me to come back home.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Tried to go for a ride before dinner. SH_26 on startup. Shift to 1st and it's like the clutch is staying engaged. Can't go anywhere. Gave some throttle and shifted to 2nd and can't move forward in second either. The wheel will spin on the centerstand, but not when it has to carry any weight like while riding the bike. Back in the garage. At least it's starting to shift freely through the gears. One thought in my mind is about that first plate that goes in the clutch. mcatrophy talks about it going around the white dotted ring in the rear of the clutch.

MCATROPHY,

Do you mean over the ring or up against it. The diameter of the hole in the center of the friction plate that goes into the clutch first is not big enough to go over the siver ring, but up against it. That is the only question in my mind. Then the sealing ring with the white dot went in second. I've installed those clutch plates twice now and the first plate into the clutch only goes all the way to the back with the pink dot between the triangles. Now you've got me questioning myself. When I look at where you final plate ends up in relationship to the edge of the clutch body, ours are both in the same place. Still questioning. Everyone else who did the soak could at least move forward in first gear.

Jeff

 

[RossKean]

Hate to say it but something has to be assembled incorrectly. I can almost see slipping until the oil gets thinned out a bit on the plates but no way for complete lack of clutch function.

Ross

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Hate to say it but something has to be assembled incorrectly. I can almost see slipping until the oil gets thinned out a bit on the plates but no way for complete lack of clutch function.

Ross

I absolutely agree now Ross, but can't see where. Any ideas?

 

[RossKean]

Hate to say it but something has to be assembled incorrectly. I can almost see slipping until the oil gets thinned out a bit on the plates but no way for complete lack of clutch function.

Ross

I absolutely agree now Ross, but can't see where. Any ideas?

Sorry, I have done lots of stuff on my bike but have never delved into the clutch - especially ignorant in the ways of the magic AE. Good luck with it - must be frustrating.

Ross

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Tried to go for a ride before dinner. SH_26 on startup. Shift to 1st and it's like the clutch is staying engaged. Can't go anywhere. Gave some throttle and shifted to 2nd and can't move forward in second either. The wheel will spin on the centerstand, but not when it has to carry any weight like while riding the bike. Back in the garage. At least it's starting to shift freely through the gears. One thought in my mind is about that first plate that goes in the clutch. mcatrophy talks about it going around the white dotted ring in the rear of the clutch.

MCATROPHY,

Do you mean over the ring or up against it. The diameter of the hole in the center of the friction plate that goes into the clutch first is not big enough to go over the siver ring, but up against it. That is the only question in my mind. Then the sealing ring with the white dot went in second. I've installed those clutch plates twice now and the first plate into the clutch only goes all the way to the back with the pink dot between the triangles. Now you've got me questioning myself. When I look at where you final plate ends up in relationship to the edge of the clutch body, ours are both in the same place. Still questioning. Everyone else who did the soak could at least move forward in first gear.

Jeff

Replying to myself. I see now in the pics that one of the black end friction plates does have a wider diameter center opening than the other. I wouldn't swear now that I have the correct friction plate in the rear. Tomorrow morning bright and early, I'll be back into the clutch. With flipping the plates over after the oil soak, it is possible that I got the 2 ends reversed. All of the other plates are the same. If this is the problem, it will be quite embarrassing after claiming that everything is in there correctly. I'll double check tomorrow and post my results.

 

[mcatrophy]

Tried to go for a ride before dinner. SH_26 on startup. Shift to 1st and it's like the clutch is staying engaged. Can't go anywhere. Gave some throttle and shifted to 2nd and can't move forward in second either. The wheel will spin on the centerstand, but not when it has to carry any weight like while riding the bike. Back in the garage. At least it's starting to shift freely through the gears. One thought in my mind is about that first plate that goes in the clutch. mcatrophy talks about it going around the white dotted ring in the rear of the clutch.

MCATROPHY,

Do you mean over the ring or up against it. The diameter of the hole in the center of the friction plate that goes into the clutch first is not big enough to go over the siver ring, but up against it. That is the only question in my mind. Then the sealing ring with the white dot went in second. I've installed those clutch plates twice now and the first plate into the clutch only goes all the way to the back with the pink dot between the triangles. Now you've got me questioning myself. When I look at where you final plate ends up in relationship to the edge of the clutch body, ours are both in the same place. Still questioning. Everyone else who did the soak could at least move forward in first gear.

Jeff

Replying to myself. I see now in the pics that one of the black end friction plates does have a wider diameter center opening than the other. I wouldn't swear now that I have the correct friction plate in the rear. Tomorrow morning bright and early, I'll be back into the clutch. With flipping the plates over after the oil soak, it is possible that I got the 2 ends reversed. All of the other plates are the same. If this is the problem, it will be quite embarrassing after claiming that everything is in there correctly. I'll double check tomorrow and post my results.

Quick reply, running late ...

The inner plate is very different from all the others, the outer is also different, but not so obvious

The inner plate goes round the ring at the back, you can probably see the diameters in this pic:



The inner plate is bottom centre, it definitely goes round the ring to its right. Insert the ring first (white dot outermost), put that rear friction plate in, seat it ROUND the ring. Then all the others, leaving the other slightly different friction plate as the last (slightly left of top centre in the pic, but not so obviously different from the others).

 

[drdevil44]

Good luck. You're right re larger plate. I only had bubbles through mittyvac too but put it down to bad seal on nipple.