Cornering confidence

[motochick]

It is easily capable of dropping into a 35mph curve at 65, two up, exit from same curve at 85, and still be within a safety margins... It is practice, knowledge, and more practice.

I don't like looking at the speedometer in the twisties. Judging a SAFE entry speed visually is an important skill and that could be different for each rider. I know its a bit off topic, but that's a scary thing to be talking about for street riding because the bike IS capable of a lot more than most riders.

 

[Cdogman]

It is easily capable of dropping into a 35mph curve at 65, two up, exit from same curve at 85, and still be within a safety margins... It is practice, knowledge, and more practice.

I don't like looking at the speedometer in the twisties. Judging a SAFE entry speed visually is an important skill and that could be different for each rider. I know its a bit off topic, but that's a scary thing to be talking about for street riding because the bike IS capable of a lot more than most riders.

I agree... But when I come into an unknown corner with decent sight lines I will look at the speed signs.. as one of many indicators... Not using ALL indicators would be foolhardy,,,,,,, i will also look down to double check myself (I drop in very very slow) as a rule, on unknown roads, I will not drop in at more than x2-10.. With poor or no sight lines I will drop clear down to the speed limit or less. There will always be another corner unless I wad my bike up and BTDT, no repeat please

In one of my classes, I dont recall what one, an instructor said "the bike is almost always more capable than the rider is willing"... but his reference was to but pucker and dealing with the correct response and avoiding panic. But it stuck with me.

I dont advocate everyone should ride fast.. I am saying the bike will do it.... so, at 1x+10, relax.. the bike will stick as long as you dont have a monumental screwup....

Jes sayin

 

[painman]

Very cool thread, and as mentioned training is key as well as the suspension setup and tires. I rode to the wall today with the norcal group and the front tire I'm running is the dreaded Bridgestone B-21. It has not even 3000 mi. and is almost to the wear bars and with the cool temp in the air and on the road, this tire sucked to say the least, really to the point that I just said to heck with it and had to shave any speed off as the uneasyness out front just made the bike feel unsecure.

Point being when you get back from your tour (and hopefully doing the ride training on Uncle Sam's tab while there), put a good set of skins on and get the suspension dialed in on the 03 and do everything you can to make this ride up to snuff and you will see a huge difference in the bike and how it handles. The FAQ's/Historical section has a thread on how to dial in the suspension that is in the 03-05 Bin-O-Facts. Suspension Setup

I've seen some who were such a good rider they could get on a full HD dresser and out ride a average rider on a sport bike in the twisties. It really didn't matter what they rode but how they rode it.

And thanks again Alexi for your dedication and service so we can freely ride around this great country. Be safe, Painman. <>< Prayers.

 

[Cdogman]

Very cool thread, and as mentioned training is key as well as the suspension setup and tires. I rode to the wall today with the norcal group and the front tire I'm running is the dreaded Bridgestone B-21. It has not even 3000 mi. and is almost to the wear bars and with the cool temp in the air and on the road, this tire sucked to say the least, really to the point that I just said to heck with it and had to shave any speed off as the uneasyness out front just made the bike feel unsecure.
Point being when you get back from your tour (and hopefully doing the ride training on Uncle Sam's tab while there), put a good set of skins on and get the suspension dialed in on the 03 and do everything you can to make this ride up to snuff and you will see a huge difference in the bike and how it handles. The FAQ's/Historical section has a thread on how to dial in the suspension that is in the 03-05 Bin-O-Facts. Suspension Setup

I've seen some who were such a good rider they could get on a full HD dresser and out ride a average rider on a sport bike in the twisties. It really didn't matter what they rode but how they rode it.

And thanks again Alexi for your dedication and service so we can freely ride around this great country. Be safe, Painman. <>< Prayers.

Doooodeee... howcome I have not ridden with you...... (perhaps i have/////) But I say GUNNY!!! to training.... GUNNY to education GUNNY welll,,,,,, when I see gunny

Oh, and GUNNY to good tires.... suspension,,,,,,, But training..... and PRACTICE//// and that old dude on the HD.. or GL1100 drinking beer while he rides.. (I met that fucker,, he smoked me......umm back in the day)

Doode... no egoes.... ride yer ride.. you picked a good one

 

[Bulldog9]

Of course I dont do this anymore...... <_< but double the yellow +10 is a normal speed on known roads, do (I mean did) that on my 79XS11, a terrible handling motorcycle. Had to work at it in some turns, but on every bike I've owned since my 96 Concours that is a piece of cake. THe FZ1 was good for triple the yello, but of course I'm too responsible to ride that way anymore. :dribble:

 

[bvail]

Hi, Alexi!
First, have you read HaulinAshe's Suspension Setup Thread? If not, I highly recommend it.

Second, check them tires.

Properly setup, your FJR should smoke a 'Wing.

That's all I have to say about that.

BG

Google This: Yellow Wolf

 

[Cdogman]

Doode..

I had a GL1800 and it was a badass in the twisties.... watch this video.. this guy has SUPREME lines and mad skills.. now put him on an FJR and once he gets used to it....try to follow his ass.. camera would need to be hooked to a friggen telescope to see him.

i had both.. the wing rocks.. but an FJR with a similarly skilled rider.. sorry man... no contest.. i have owned both

edit

lemme add.. for PURE touring.. the wing is better, than anything.. but it gets its ass kicked when the word "sport" is added.. and it is not a slouch at all at that

 

[bvail]

Doode..
I had a GL1800 and it was a badass in the twisties.... watch this video.. this guy has SUPREME lines and mad skills.. now put him on an FJR and once he gets used to it....try to follow his ass.. camera would need to be hooked to a friggen telescope to see him.

i had both.. the wing rocks.. but an FJR with a similarly skilled rider.. sorry man... no contest.. i have owned both

edit

lemme add.. for PURE touring.. the wing is better, than anything.. but it gets its ass kicked when the word "sport" is added.. and it is not a slouch at all at that

When I bought the Wing I rode the Dragon (dragging a trailer) and met Rick. I check out his Wing and it had a lot of missing metal on the foot pegs. Quite a machine he had there with the cameras and all. Asked him if there were any riders he couldn't keep up with while filming and he said there were three that lost him. He also did an SS1k on the Dragon in just under 24 hours. But you are probably right on his choice of rides.

 

[oldryder]

Great thread. Brings to mind a comment I hear fairly regularly that goes something like ".... I came around the curve and there was gravel/deer/ bison/sand/oil/etc. and I was screwed ..." followed by a description of his or her injuries.

whenever I hear this I believe the rider is admitting he was riding too fast and overdriving his sight lines. I don't like to hear about anyone going down but I can't help thinking accidents like this are avoidable if riders were more aware of their limitations.

 

[kansjfr]

Great thread. Brings to mind a comment I hear fairly regularly that goes something like ".... I came around the curve and there was gravel/deer/ bison/sand/oil/etc. and I was screwed ..." followed by a description of his or her injuries.
whenever I hear this I believe the rider is admitting he was riding too fast and overdriving his sight lines. I don't like to hear about anyone going down but I can't help thinking accidents like this are avoidable if riders were more aware of their limitations.

I think different riders are comfortable with different bikes. I've had several GL1800s and found that given their size, they handle admirably. I've also had 2 FJRs which I was very comfortable and confident on. After the FJRs, I had a Concours 14, and never could get confident on it, like I was with the FJRs or GL1800s, so I recently bought a Suzuki B King, which is a Hayabusa without the pain of knees in your armpits, your butt in the air and your head on the tank. I am once again very confident on this bike, much more so than the Concours 14. I guess that's why they build so many different bikes, for so many different butts.

 

[Scarbo]

Thank you, Alexi, for your post. While I truly love my '04 FJR (which I've owned for over a year) and I would not trade it for any other bike, I've also felt the same as you when taking tight fast curves. I just figured that I'd been riding cruisers with very low COG's for so many years that I just needed to get used to a bigger, taller and heavier bike like the FJR.

Thanks to you, and other members of this site, for the great information on this post. I'm going to check out my suspension settings and tires and I realize that I need to improve my riding skills, even though I've been riding bikes for over 40 years.

And thank you for your service to our country. We're very proud of all of our servicemen and women. Be careful over there and return home safely.

Al

 

[RickyRey]

Interesting thread, a couple questions for you Alexi. First I'm having a hard time following where you are, some posts makes it sound like your deployed, others like your home, others like your about to deploy..... Second, how much experience do you have as a rider and on sport bikes? I think your issue is not so much a poorly set up FJR (though bad tires and suspension settings can limit the fun), others have mentioned that the GW's lower center of gravity and wide bars make it 'easier' to ride, or feel confident on. I think it is a reflection of your riding experience and ability, not of the two bikes.
I've ridden just about every generation of GW and have always been impressed with their overall ability, Honda has done a great job with them, and they really are comfy bikes that can be ridden at moderate speeds. They are very easy to feel immediately comfortable on, but their limit is found very quickly, and just when the GW is out of its league is when the FJR is coming into its. I think this is true regardless of how the bike is set up. I think it all comes down to riders ability/confidence. I had a buddy that taught (maybe still does) the advanced MSF course, and he used to love to take an old (84-85) Gold wing and lap guys on sport bikes at the track.... Was very funny and a testament to what a GW could do, but in reality, to what a difference the rider makes.

No flame intended to you or anyone, but maybe you need to consider a GW or similar touring bike, and accept that a sport bike, or eve sport tourer is just not what you want/need/can ride well. Just a thought.

Oh, and if you are a DOD employee, sneakers are not authorized footwear.................

I agree with you Bull Dog. Ive only been riding 3 years. Off the cruiser onto the FJR for one year. Big difference and the FJR takes more cajones for me than the cruiser. I'm 57. As I get better in the twisties, the pucker factor goes down, so does most of my whining. I have found through this forum, that most of what I want to blame on the bike is about the rider. I too recommend taking some riding courses. Track and Mountains with mic'd up instructors has helped me tremendously. CLASS and Stayin Safe schools.

And, like others have said, some bikes just fit and others dont. While Im still not completely comfortable on the bike, I'm going to give it this coming riding season and see if I cant make it fit like a glove and if not , move on.

R

 

[Old Bear]

Great thread. Brings to mind a comment I hear fairly regularly that goes something like ".... I came around the curve and there was gravel/deer/ bison/sand/oil/etc. and I was screwed ..." followed by a description of his or her injuries.
whenever I hear this I believe the rider is admitting he was riding too fast and overdriving his sight lines. I don't like to hear about anyone going down but I can't help thinking accidents like this are avoidable if riders were more aware of their limitations.

I've gotta agree with oldrider. It's like Eastwood said "a man's got to know his limitations.... :glare: There've been a bunch of folks who crashed simply because they overshot their curve and/or found an unpleasant surprise midway through one. Do NOT ride beyond your sightline, else you will, eventually, regret it! :angry2:

 

[madmike2]

Of course I dont do this anymore...... <_< but double the yellow +10 is a normal speed on known roads, do (I mean did) that on my 79XS11, a terrible handling motorcycle. Had to work at it in some turns, but on every bike I've owned since my 96 Concours that is a piece of cake. THe FZ1 was good for triple the yello, but of course I'm too responsible to ride that way anymore. :dribble:

A good deal of this is assumption of the methods used to determine safe cornering speeds. This will vary greatly from state-to-state, and in California it will change from county-to-county.

I remember warning everyone who was riding the Sierras from WFO in Reno that some particular highway passes were more dangerous than others. Hwy 4 (Ebbett's Pass) in particular! Many came back and admitted that, unlike the roads and corners they were used to at home, they began to "push" in the corners I warned them about and some even admitted to "very close calls". Doh!!!

Great thread. Brings to mind a comment I hear fairly regularly that goes something like ".... I came around the curve and there was gravel/deer/ bison/sand/oil/etc. and I was screwed ..." followed by a description of his or her injuries.
whenever I hear this I believe the rider is admitting he was riding too fast and overdriving his sight lines. I don't like to hear about anyone going down but I can't help thinking accidents like this are avoidable if riders were more aware of their limitations.

I've gotta agree with oldrider. It's like Eastwood said "a man's got to know his limitations.... :glare: There've been a bunch of folks who crashed simply because they overshot their curve and/or found an unpleasant surprise midway through one. Do NOT ride beyond your sightline, else you will, eventually, regret it! :angry2:

Amen! Yes! +1! Gunny! Gunny10!

Each of us should also be "self aware", that is, know what your personal condition is that particular day or moment. Seriously, I try to assess my emotions, physical condition, mental acuity, eye-hand coordination, response time, etc., before I begin any ride and particularly before attempting any technical roadways.

Even so, on the way to TWNs memorial I allowed my mind to wander (being a bit overwhelmed by the reason for the trip, the beauty of one of Tim's favorite roads and 1, 453 other memories of Tim) and visited the dirt shoulder of Hwy 33. And I know better!!!

If one habitually ignores the rules about sight lines or continually finds themselves drifting over (or even TO) the center line.....that rider is writing an open invitation to tragedy.

Besides the unseen dangers mentioned above, what does one do with a sudden "closing radius" turn? OR...what does one do with a vehicle who is crossing the center line for a better apex for themselves rather than staying in their own lane and yielding another motorist's right of way?

Both of the above scenarios have been survived by this rider because I've taken to heart the message about "seeing" through a corner before committing to a line and accelerating through that corner. Of course, taking riding courses where practice is a huge part of the curriculum has helped.

The usual disclaimers apply. YMMV, etc.

 

[clubber]

My kid has an SV-650. The FJR feels much better in the corners but the SV will kill it for all out cornering. I think that weight on a bike makes it feel more planted but really the lighter bike will still out corner it. So for my 2 cents, it's an illusion.

 

[Bulldog9]

I couldnt agree more, my only accident in over 20 years (at the time) of riding happend on the Cherohola Skyway in 2004. Several things combined added up to a total disaster for my bike and a real bad day for me. It was mile 2100 of a planned 3000 mile 4 day weekend, about 3pm in the afternoon, I was heading East, just on the NC side of the skyway, when in a deep reducing radius left hand turn, I came across a moonshine enhanced billyjoehillbillie (no offense intended) coming in my direction on my side of the road. I am riding my new FZ1, and trying to find this bikes limits, so I was riding way outside my saftey zone (WAY faster than I had business riding). I got around him ok, and even though his side mirror made contact with my helmet, all was well...... Having to avoid him pushed me out in my arch though, and as the road continued to 'dissapear' I was pushed to the shoulder (read gravel) and the bike low sided, I went down and did a 200meter superman slide and my bike did summersaults and tumbled. When we stopped I was bruised and had destroyed a new leather riding suit and helmet, but other than bad bruising across my legs and back (bike tumbled across me at some point) I was OK. The bike was totalled, not one part was left unbent/broken/shattered.

Worst part of it? this prime example of human debris continued on and created another accident that ended the life of one rider, and took the legs of another just 3-4 miles up the road...... wonderful. He kept going on that one too.......

I've always ridden fast, and agressively, but always strive to maintain a saftey bubble. I was trying to reestablish that bubble on a new highly capable motorcycle. I Diddnt think the FZ1 would have been such an improvement in capability, and if it were just me and the road I would have been fine. I dont think I have ever crossed the center line, with my helmet or tires, HATE riders who do that. If I see it I back off and get away from them so I dont have to watch the coming disaster. I take full responsibility for what happens when I ride, and I believe we as riders need to do our best to ride responsibly. I wasnt that day given all the conditions. Just me and the road alone? I was fine. Add other riders/drivers? I had no saftey margin, and it got me.... Thankfully I had all the right gear on and for the first time put in the back armor. Had I not.......

My contributing factors:

1. New Motorcycle and had not mastered and meshed its and my abilities.

2. Tired from riding all day, and on 3rd day

3. Age - at 40 my reflexes arent what my brain remembers

4. Speed........ way too fast

5. Probably the biggest factor was the resetting of my 'thrillmeter' just coming back from Iraq, and getting wounded (minor) and all the mess of that had reset my adreneline button..... still is reset, little to nothiung gets my heart rate up.

Yes, the drunk idiot on my side of the road caused the accident, but had I factored in everything, I would not have been hard on the throttle and screaming through the turns, at least at that speed. Had I known my new limits and set the saftey margin like I used to, I could have gotten around him and not wrecked. Lesson learned.......

I spent the next 4 years going back to basics riding my XS1100, now with the FJR, I will have to relearn it all again, but this time? I'm taking it slow.... Thats another reason I diddnt go for a Sprint or another FZ1 or similar with Bags. I need to slow down and lean towards the touring side of things ;-) I think the FJR is perfectly matched to how I want to ride, in its abilities and comfort zone. Bottom line, ride well WITHIN your ability and sightline.

OK, this concludes my novel for the day :dribble:

 

[Potential]

The BT-021s are horrible. The bike leaned very unsteadily from day 1. I just replaced them with Pilot Road 2s even though they only had 2000 miles on them because they were just dangerous, but the new PR2s are excellent -- they allow the motorcycle to lean smoothly and linearly exactly like any motorcycle should.

 

[happyPuppy]

I am finding the BT-021s like higher pressure than the book suggests, I am running 42 in both and it is t least more consistent in its behavior. They are not performance tires by any means I agree, I think they are made for the super slab.

 

[spalkin]

Great article. CLICK

The best advise, go in slower unless you know the curve and practice, practice, practice.

Riding gently (read: going the speed limit), and anyone can handle a bike. Start to speed up and a whole new set of skills and judgment become necessary.

 

[n1acguy]

When I bought my 08 in August it replaced a 97 Bandit 1200. The Bandit only had about 7500 miles on it, but the suspension had gotten pretty mushy.

Anyway, I couldn't believe how easy the FJR handled for such a large bike. It really thinks it's a smaller bike. The FJR is, by far, the most advanced bike I've ever had.

As others have said, I'll bet your suspension isn't set up right or it's worn. Any bike is a handful with inadequate damping.

Funny that when I first bought the Bandit, I could ride it a lot faster in the twisties than the Ninjas I had before it. I guess the upright riding position just fit my riding style better.