Crashed Mon, May 2 in Brea, CA

[ionbeam]

Movie Back To The Future:

Biff Tannen: I can't believe you'd *loan* me your car without telling me it had a blind spot. I could've been killed!

George McFly: Now, now, Biff, now I never noticed that, uh, the car had any blind spot before when I would drive it.

Biff Tannen: But what are you, blind, McFly? It's there. How else do you explain that wreck out there?

George McFly: Now, Biff, um, can I - Can I assume that your, uh, insurance is gonna pay for the damage?

Biff Tannen: My insurance? It's your car. Your insurance should pay for it. I wanna know who's gonna pay for this.

[shows his shirt]

Biff Tannen: I spilled beer all over when that car smashed into me. Who's gonna pay my cleaning bill?

 

[SkooterG]

The inconvenience of both parties will be a lesson learned, because they are both at fault. I think both have to man up, and move on.

Huh? BOTH at fault? How does being generous enough to let someone ride your bike put you at fault? Sure, if you do let someone ride your bike you have to be prepared to deal with any consequences, but I sure have trouble placing any blame or assigning any fault.

I don't think this thread is out of hand. I think its a natural progression of what happens when we hear of one rider screwing over another rider.

 

[wheatonFJR]

This whole thing is getting out of hand....

"is getting out of hand" is the wrong verb tense. "Got out of hand" is the correct tense.

"Got out of hand" the minute someone did not take responsibility for their own actions...

Don't talk to me about legaleze...others know about that stuff...I don't. All I have is my nose and my sense of the right or wrong...Unfortunately, what Big-B appeared to do (past tense) does not live up to the "smell test". I wish it weren't so, because I've met Big-B and thought him to be a good guy.

It's not too late for Big-B to do the right thing here. He can simply step up to the plate, take responsibility...whatever that takes, and right a wrong that he committed.

...but he NEEDS to make this right.

WE are watching...

 

[road runner]

Maybe fault is the wrong word,how about irresponsible. If he didn't lend his bike to someone he didn't know we wouldn't be having this conversation. I mean really, I have lent mine to GOOD friends, but not someone I just met. I'm not saying it was his fault, but he was rolling the dice for sure.

Like I said, let the insurance companies fight it out (that's what they are for) then go from there. I'm sure he will make out OK.

 

[SkooterG]

I don't buy irresponsible either. He just lent it to a guy who had rented a motorcyle for about a week. Lending it to someone when you don't know if they can ride or not (as in no or little experience) is irresponsible. The only path I am willing to go down is based on that type of bike that is, you want to be careful on who you let ride it. But if it was me, and a 47 year old guy with a good job who rides an FJR and just rented a Harley for a week wanted to take a crack at it, I most likely would have let him too.

And the guy is not going to make it out OK. There's a deductible. There's the loss of use of his bike even if repaired. There is the knowing that he now has a wrecked (even if fixed) bike. And sounds like Big-B won't return any of this guy's attempts to contact him. That's fucked up. Plain and simple. There's a lot more to this than 'just let the insurance companies deal with it'. I wonder - has Big-B even just once apologized to this guy?

 

[wheatonFJR]

..If he didn't lend his bike to someone he didn't know we wouldn't be having this conversation...

WRONG answer.

I TOTALLY understand you wanting to help your friend. I get it.

But the right answer is if Big-B stepped up, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Rightly or wrongly, people lend out bikes as a friendly gesture. However, motorcycle riders don't do what Big-B did to other motorcycle riders...if I have missed something in this incident and am way off base, then Big-B should address that.

But Big-B's got the chance to correct this by himself...I hope this event is squared away soon to everybody's satisfaction. I really do.

But I'm not going to walk away from this and pretend that wrecking someone else's bike, skipping town and not paying anything for the damage you caused is somehow okay or right...because it just is not.

Not even close.

 

[road runner]

Jeff WILL make out fine in this whole thing I'm sure, because the law is on his side. That's why I said it's getting out of hand. Between insurance and court he will prevail.

Brian is the one out of work, in pain, and can't provide for his family. So who really has it worse right now. And I don't hear him complaining.

 

[SkooterG]

..If he didn't lend his bike to someone he didn't know we wouldn't be having this conversation...

WRONG answer.

I TOTALLY understand you wanting to help your friend. I get it.

But the right answer is if Big-B stepped up, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Rightly or wrongly, people lend out bikes as a friendly gesture. However, motorcycle riders don't do what Big-B did to other motorcycle riders...if I have missed something in this incident and am way off base, then Big-B should address that.

But Big-B's got the chance to correct this by himself...I hope this event is squared away soon to everybody's satisfaction. I really do.

But I'm not going to walk away from this and pretend that wrecking someone else's bike, skipping town and not paying anything for the damage you caused is somehow okay or right...because it just is not.

Not even close.

Well said Wheatie!

If Big-B had NOT

1) Accepted a ride on a bike he was unfamiliar with (NOBODY forced him)

2) Ridden such a bike in such a manner that he somehow crashed the thing in 500'. WTF?

3) Refused to make it right and ignore any attempts at contact. (Except of course to try and make a claim against the guy's insurance to have his helmet paid for WTF!?!?!)

Well then, we would not all be here having such a pleasant conversation.

 

[SkooterG]

Jeff WILL make out fine in this whole thing I'm sure, because the law is on his side. That's why I said it's getting out of hand. Between insurance and court he will prevail.

Brian is the one out of work, in pain, and can't provide for his family. So who really has it worse right now. And I don't hear him complaining.

Dude. No offense, BUT YOU DON'T GET IT.

Brian fucked up. When it comes to his own injuries, it's all his own fault. And he is being a total douchebag by not making things right with the person he wronged.

And if you think having your bike wrecked, hopefully repaired right, not having use of that bike for several months, dealing with insurance companies and even worse, the courts, is 'making out fine', then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

In some states there's a law against letting someone ride your bike without (them having) a motorcycle endorsement. (lending credence to owner responsibility)

Years ago I went on an, invitation only, group ride including many unfamiliar riders -- but, of course, all known to the host. At the time, I had a relatively new bike and a model that had some appeal/demand. On the ride, one of the riders asked me to trade bikes so he could sample my bike -- I agreed (but, worried all the time he had it...).

Later, the host of the ride approached me and stated that he was surprised that I let that guy ride my bike -- he said that he wouldn't have...!

I never forgot that lesson about ASSumptions...

And..., I have owned (freaky/powerful) motorcycles that I just wouldn't let anyone ride -- but I never thought of a KTM 950 SM as one of those.

I guess there's both black & white and shades of grey...?

 

[road runner]

I don't buy irresponsible either. He just lent it to a guy who had rented a motorcycle for about a week. Lending it to someone when you don't know if they can ride or not (as in no or little experience) is irresponsible. The only path I am willing to go down is based on that type of bike that is, you want to be careful on who you let ride it. But if it was me, and a 47 year old guy with a good job who rides an FJR and just rented a Harley for a week wanted to take a crack at it, I most likely would have let him too.

And the guy is not going to make it out OK. There's a deductible. There's the loss of use of his bike even if repaired. There is the knowing that he now has a wrecked (even if fixed) bike. And sounds like Big-B won't return any of this guy's attempts to contact him. That's fucked up. Plain and simple. There's a lot more to this than 'just let the insurance companies deal with it'. I wonder - has Big-B even just once apologized to this guy?

I'm not taking sides. You are agreeing with me in your statements, because he didn't know of any experience. All he knows is what a guy he just met told him. How does he know Brian was telling the truth.

He could make out OK if he lets them total it and get a new bike, then go after Brians ins for any out of pocket money. As far as loss of use that's a lesson learned and the only price Jeff should pay for lending it out.

I think Jeff should get a new bike and Brians insurance should pay the entire thing. Which is most likely what will happen. Even if Jeff's ins pays initially, they will go after Brians ins to be reimbursed.

 

[beemerdons]

Jeff WILL make out fine in this whole thing I'm sure, because the law is on his side. That's why I said it's getting out of hand. Between insurance and court he will prevail.

Brian is the one out of work, in pain, and can't provide for his family. So who really has it worse right now. And I don't hear him complaining.

Dude. No offense, BUT YOU DON'T GET IT.

Brian fucked up. When it comes to his own injuries, it's all his own fault. And he is being a total douchebag by not making things right with the person he wronged.

And if you think having your bike wrecked, hopefully repaired right, not having use of that bike for several months, dealing with insurance companies and even worse, the courts, is 'making out fine', then you are living in a fantasy world.

+1, Gunny; well spoken and entirely true SkooterG, really getting sick and tired of these apologists for a douchebag that fucks up and then takes no responsibility at all!

 

[TomInPA]

I don't buy irresponsible either. He just lent it to a guy who had rented a motorcycle for about a week. Lending it to someone when you don't know if they can ride or not (as in no or little experience) is irresponsible. The only path I am willing to go down is based on that type of bike that is, you want to be careful on who you let ride it. But if it was me, and a 47 year old guy with a good job who rides an FJR and just rented a Harley for a week wanted to take a crack at it, I most likely would have let him too.

And the guy is not going to make it out OK. There's a deductible. There's the loss of use of his bike even if repaired. There is the knowing that he now has a wrecked (even if fixed) bike. And sounds like Big-B won't return any of this guy's attempts to contact him. That's fucked up. Plain and simple. There's a lot more to this than 'just let the insurance companies deal with it'. I wonder - has Big-B even just once apologized to this guy?

I'm not taking sides. You are agreeing with me in your statements, because he didn't know of any experience. All he knows is what a guy he just met told him. How does he know Brian was telling the truth.

He could make out OK if he lets them total it and get a new bike, then go after Brians ins for any out of pocket money. As far as loss of use that's a lesson learned and the only price Jeff should pay for lending it out.

I think Jeff should get a new bike and Brians insurance should pay the entire thing. Which is most likely what will happen. Even if Jeff's ins pays initially, they will go after Brians ins to be reimbursed.

It is extremely unlikely that there will be subrogation against Brian's insurance. In California, the bike is insured. If you permissibly give another person control of that vehicle, the vehicle insurance is still in effect, not the driver's insurance. It is not like a car rental where your insurance may cover the vehicle you rent (BTW you better know you have coverage). I leaned the hard way when a room-mate borrowed my daughter's car and totaled it. Although no points were assigned to us for the accident, our insurance paid 100% of the damages, and medical for the person driving.

Bottom line is, don't ever lend your car or motorcycle to another person without realizing that you have 100% liability for whatever they do.

 

[Old Michael]

....Brian is the one out of work, in pain, and can't provide for his family. So who really has it worse right now. And I don't hear him complaining.

Hmmmm.

How can I put this?

How about .....

You have GOT to be fucking kidding me!

... really getting sick and tired of these apologists for a douchebag that fucks up and then takes no responsibility at all!

AMEN!

 

[SacramentoMike]

Roadrunner. The more you say the deeper you dig. Stop digging.

What the thread DOES need is a post from BigB. The content was posted already, post 58 for one example. Just send it.

 

[exskibum]

Jeff WILL make out fine in this whole thing I'm sure, because the law is on his side. That's why I said it's getting out of hand. Between insurance and court he will prevail.
Brian is the one out of work, in pain, and can't provide for his family. So who really has it worse right now. And I don't hear him complaining.

HUH!?! I don't hear Brian stepping up, and don't see how he has anything to complain about that isn't wholly and directly attributable to his own actions.

Let's distill this to what should happen. That is -- what Brian Church should have done, but having failed that responsibility test, it's the same make up exam:

Jeff paid for insurance and has done what he can to get the maximum repairs out of that. Sounds like he's willing to throw that toward having Brian's responsibility taken care of, for which Brian should be grateful.

Brian needs to pay the deductible and the difference between what Jeff got out of his insurance company and the cost to put the bike in the condition it was in when Brian crashed the bike. That's $500 for the deductible, and while I can't be sure of the difference between insurance payment and full repair from what's posted, that sounds like less than $2,000.

Even with that, Jeff will have a bike that has been wrecked, so he's not really even getting back what he bought and loaned to Brian. I suspect that Jeff would forego any claim for loss of use (what he might have to pay to get replacement transportation (and bike for planned tour) until the bike is fixed). I don't know what kind of insurance Brian might have, but if I were him, and he doesn't want to pay this out of pocket, then I'd check the liability provisions of his MC policy, possibly his HO policy (usually an exclusion for liability arising for use of a vehicle, though) AND any umbrella policy he may have.

From all that has been posted here, Brian is responsible for his own injuries and for the bike damage. He's rewarded Jeff's unselfish act with grief and the promise of even more headache. Why Jeff should have to sue him and jump through all the hoops, aggravation and delay to have this made right is beyond me. That's just plain fucked up, and another of those "me, me, me" situations in which the bad actor refuses to take personal responsibility (as if we didn't have enough of that nowadays). That he wanted Brian's insurer to buy him a new helmet adds some insights to his perspective.

That Brian refused to offer to make it right or even negotiate what that is says more. What I find especially amazing for a late forties man with a good job and son graduating from college (gleaned from his posts on the forum), is setting the example of refusing even to correspond with the guy he wronged about working this out. And some think that the generally negative reaction to that evidence of moral character is "getting out of hand"???

 

[Bounce]

Bummer, I hope you heal quick. BTW did it look something like this..

or maybe like this (language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO9zrZfWXmI&feature=related

Hadn't seen this thread at all until tonight. [removed comment as possible conflict as an admin]

 

[beachy]

i am sure big b has been reading this thread lets hope he will see the error of his ways, eats a little humble pie and does the right thing. at minimum jeff should have no cost to himself.

 

[Auburn]

Wow. I hadn't read this until now. All I can say is BigB you need to step up and make things right. Your reputation is on the line and sinking fast.

 

[CAJW]

This whole thing is getting out of hand. This is why we have insurance. If they both had insurance and they exchanged info then I don't see the problem. The insurance companies will take care of it, and if they don't , that's why there is court.

The inconvenience of both parties will be a lesson learned, because they are both at fault. I think both have to man up, and move on.

My .02 cents

Why in the HELL do you think that Jeff should have to wait for the insurance companies to fight this out? This was not an accident, it was the result of premeditated kindness that ended badly and Brian needs to step up. The mentality of waiting for someone else to clean up our messes is what's wrong with a large part of our world and needs to stop. Thank goodness there are people such as Jeff with the kindheartedness to offer up such a valuable piece of his being to a stranger in the interest of promoting the motorcycling kinship. Brian Church, get off your ass and send the man a check!

(BTW, I told the wife that we're blocking the QVC channel and to tell all of her friends not to spend another dime there! Like I've always said, don't get mad, get even!)