wabill
Well-known member
It didn't understand the assertion that the FJR didn't handle well in the twisties and couldn't keep up. Mine only gets weak if the tires have worn flat and need a change.
Cycle World Comparo
- Thread starter FJR Bill
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Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
They are right. They aren't in the same class.
The BMW is in the uber-expensive heavyweight I'm just trying to impress my neighbors and riding buddies and I have more money than brains class, and the Triumph is in the underpowered touring whale with no dealership network to support me class, where they still happen to think it's cool to put stereo speakers in the faring so you can blast your tunes at top volume like the Harley **** and Old Wingers do.
Why would it bother you in the least that they don't think the Yamaha FJR is like those other two?
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David Foley
Well-known member
Fred W - I'm in the odd position to defend BMW against FJR, my chosen ride, but I guess it's my turn in the barrel. Your wrong about BMW - flat out. It is clearly better engineered than the FJR but at a price point that turns alot of people off (add about 5K to get a FJR to equal a GTL though and we will get closer to apples to apples). FJR is better from a reliabiltiy standpoint. Impressing the neighbors does not weigh into it. My neighbors don't give a **** what I ride.
SoCalFJR1300
Well-known member
"Harley ****" is a reference to the South Park episode: "The "F" Word" which first aired back in 2009. Here's a short Youtube clip to give you the general idea, or else you can watch the entire episode here, if you want to see what it was all about, or else google it up and read about the entire controversy from both (all three?) sides. Being an apparent Harley owner (guessing based on forum name) and defender, I'm surprised that you were not already aware of it.
Harley **** are a subset of Harley owners. Not all owners subscribe to the *** mentality.
Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way. Nice introductory post. Making personally defamatory posts early on is always a good choice for making new friends.
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BkerChuck
Second hand vegetarian
First off I haven't read the entire article so I don't know all of the details. I do believe that anyone looking at the purchase of any of the 3 bikes is likely not a first time buyer. That being said, I don't believe any potential buyer for this type of bike is likely to get all of their info from just one source. I've seen the Triumph and at a quick glance, first thought it was a BMW! Each of the 3 bikes have their followers and their detractors same as any other motorcycle. The FJR even with the updates is still the oldest base design here. That doesn't make it bad. Regardless of pricing it's still the one I would spend my money on.
As to the Harley "****", I work part time at a Harley dealership and I deal with these ass clowns every other weekend. For too many of them it's all about getting attention by owning the loudest most God awful contraptions you'll ever see. Ape hanger handlebars on a touring bike? For whatever unknown reason that's alll the rage right now and those handlebars are backordered from just about every supplier. Money can buy a lot of things, class isn't one of them.
Sad thing is these are the same people that want to bitch about how bikers rights are being trampled on while being as obnoxious as humanly possible.
As to the Harley "****", I work part time at a Harley dealership and I deal with these ass clowns every other weekend. For too many of them it's all about getting attention by owning the loudest most God awful contraptions you'll ever see. Ape hanger handlebars on a touring bike? For whatever unknown reason that's alll the rage right now and those handlebars are backordered from just about every supplier. Money can buy a lot of things, class isn't one of them.
Sad thing is these are the same people that want to bitch about how bikers rights are being trampled on while being as obnoxious as humanly possible.
Graham Downunder
Well-known member
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BMW has a very bad reputation for reliability and customer service in regards to known common faults such as rear drive failures ,ABS servo bake system that fails at huge cost , dry clutch failures in R series. Go ask owners of 2006-2010 K200 GT about all the problems they have with those bikes eg cam chain, tensioners, guides, chains sprockets , even the new improved ones are now failing . These K 1200GT now sell in Australia for less than the same year FJR or Kawasaki 1400 GTR ,owners must feel real good to have paid more than 50% over the price of a FJR and now its worth less, or course they been screwed for service costs along the way.
I can easily afford to buy any new BMW bike for cash in Australia at their totally over the top prices, I respect the effort it takes to earn money so I do not waste it ,so for the money I earn I buy second hand Yamaha . Maybe that sounds like I am bragging ,but its not meant to be that way ,I have looked at several BMW done my research and found them wanting in regards to reliability, service and TOTAL cost of ownership.
BMW sells well in Europe only because Japanese bikes are forced to be priced very near BMW bikes .
I can easily afford to buy any new BMW bike for cash in Australia at their totally over the top prices, I respect the effort it takes to earn money so I do not waste it ,so for the money I earn I buy second hand Yamaha . Maybe that sounds like I am bragging ,but its not meant to be that way ,I have looked at several BMW done my research and found them wanting in regards to reliability, service and TOTAL cost of ownership.
BMW sells well in Europe only because Japanese bikes are forced to be priced very near BMW bikes .
From my experience too many German machines are over-engineered. In the process of pushing the envelope in the technical frontiers they end up with less reliable machines. Their R&D can be excellent but they often go for the complicated when simple is better and more than adequate.
I'll agree. But some might argue that the '13 FJR is approaching the over-engineering point as well. Fly by wire, unnecessary traction control, having to navigate through the computer generated screens just to raise and lower the windshield height... you get the picture.
With all of that added whiz-bang feature complexity comes also added non-reliability. Every feature option or mechanism has an opportunity to break at any number of points in its lifetime. Even with excellent quality control, the more of these features, options and mechanisms that are included in a particular assembly the more opportunities there are for failure during the assembly's lifetime.
CEO level summary: Simpler is more gooder.
With all of that added whiz-bang feature complexity comes also added non-reliability. Every feature option or mechanism has an opportunity to break at any number of points in its lifetime. Even with excellent quality control, the more of these features, options and mechanisms that are included in a particular assembly the more opportunities there are for failure during the assembly's lifetime.
CEO level summary: Simpler is more gooder.
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SoCalFJR1300
Well-known member
Dave, can you give us a few examples of why you think it's better engineered?
Thanks!
SoCalFJR1300
Well-known member
SoCalFJR1300
Well-known member
He could always just venture into the 170 page (or so) CT thread and give his opinion on why it's a bad idea.
Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way. Nice introductory post. Making personally defamatory posts early on is always a good choice for making new friends.
ndivita
Well-known member
Some people like old school revolvers. Some people like tarted up semi auto pistols. Similar thinking can be applied to motorcycles.
For the kind of riding I do and the kind of person I am, reliability is king. Simplicity and reliability are shirt tail cousins.
The Cycle World review fills a much needed gap.
For the kind of riding I do and the kind of person I am, reliability is king. Simplicity and reliability are shirt tail cousins.
The Cycle World review fills a much needed gap.
Fred, obviously I was not aware of the South Park reference (I have never watched that show). If you have a Sponge Bob Square Pants reference I will be out of the loop on that one too. I was not personnally attacking you and I am not defending Harleys. I sold mine to ride a better bike (the FJR). I didn't think the ride determined the kind of person I was. What I was attempting to ask was why bash people in general because of what they ride. You can think what you want but, not all Harley riders are **** nor are they a subset of Harley owners. My response was not an intro post and I was not making a personal attack towards you. While I am sure your concern was genuine, you don't need to worry about me making new friends.
"Harley ****" is a reference to the South Park episode: "The "F" Word" which first aired back in 2009. Here's a short Youtube clip to give you the general idea, or else you can watch the entire episode here, if you want to see what it was all about, or else google it up and read about the entire controversy from both (all three?) sides. Being an apparent Harley owner (guessing based on forum name) and defender, I'm surprised that you were not already aware of it.
Harley **** are a subset of Harley owners. Not all owners subscribe to the *** mentality.
Oh, and welcome to the forum, by the way. Nice introductory post. Making personally defamatory posts early on is always a good choice for making new friends.
Not bashing people for what they ride, but rather what they do. I have some pretty good friends who ride Harleys and they aren't **** at all (in the Southpark sense, not talking about homosexuality here at all) So, you are quite correct in that regard, not all Harley riders are "****", and I'd said so once already. But there are definitely a large percentage of Harley owners who do subscribe to the "***" ideals that being loud and obnoxious is really cool. I'll bash them as a group because that is just plain dumb, and creates negative feelings in the non-riding public about motorcyclists in general.
By "into post" I meant only that it was one of your first 35 posts to the forum. You're a new guy here.
So, what was the line "Guess brains nor class?" supposed to mean other than something derogatory?
But I'll take you free advice and try not to lose any sleep over your friendship status.
Hope you enjoy your new 2013. It's a heck of a nice bike. :thumbsup:
fjrbird
Well-known member
I am super happy with FJR stock windshield as it fits me perfectly. I guess it's because my short height. I rode to Laughlin, NV a couple months ago and had the windshield to the lowest level all the way and enjoyed so much. That being said it is up to the owner of the bike to customize it. Not one size fits all from the factory. I think magazine comparo is for entertainment only. Imagine those tester just ride bikes for a short period of time, no adjustment made, jumping from one bike to another not on the same roads, their personal bias, their paid advertiser bias, etc. I prefer to read from owner's experience like in this forum, it's true to the fact. Long term ownership will reveal all the plus and minus, maintenance cost, liability issue, etc.
David Foley
Well-known member
SoCalFJR1300 - Dave, can you give us a few examples of why you think it's better engineered?
A short list some of the features of a K1600 that IMO make it the best engineered touring bike on the road. The FJR has several of these features as well but no bike other than the K1600 has this complete package.
ABS
Dynamic Traction Control
Electronic Suspension Adjustment (ESA II)
Cruise Control
Heated Seats
6 Speed
Heated Grips
Adaptive Xenon Headlight
Ground Lighting
Tire Pressure Monitoring
Anti-Theft System
Integrated LED Fog Lights
Central Locking for storage compartments
Factory Crash Bars
Front and Rear Powerlets
Inline 6 Cylinder only slightly larger than the Inline 4 cylinder it replaced.
7 Gallon fuel tank on the GTL (Range 350 miles)
Integrated Navigation
Integrated Bluetooth Communications
Integrated Audio
Integrated Satellite Radio
IPod Integration
Multi-Controller (BMW Motorcycle equivalent of iDrive)
TFT Color Display
Menu Guidance
Duolever Front Suspension
Paralever Rear Suspension
CANBus
Battery under the seat
Obviously I don't subscribe to the theory that "simpler is more gooder".
I do like reliability though and I still ride an FJR and will continue to. I wonder though - a third of the entries (more than any other brand) in the 2011 IBR were BMW. Somebody thinks thier reliable.
I'm new to riding and the K1600 is new to the market - they just released their third model year. Plenty of room for more bikes in the garage - maybe 2014.
A short list some of the features of a K1600 that IMO make it the best engineered touring bike on the road. The FJR has several of these features as well but no bike other than the K1600 has this complete package.
ABSDynamic Traction ControlElectronic Suspension Adjustment (ESA II)Cruise ControlHeated Seats6 SpeedHeated GripsAdaptive Xenon HeadlightGround LightingTire Pressure MonitoringAnti-Theft SystemIntegrated LED Fog LightsCentral Locking for storage compartmentsFactory Crash BarsFront and Rear PowerletsInline 6 Cylinder only slightly larger than the Inline 4 cylinder it replaced.7 Gallon fuel tank on the GTL (Range 350 miles)Integrated NavigationIntegrated Bluetooth CommunicationsIntegrated AudioIntegrated Satellite RadioIPod IntegrationMulti-Controller (BMW Motorcycle equivalent of iDrive)TFT Color DisplayMenu GuidanceDuolever Front SuspensionParalever Rear SuspensionCANBusBattery under the seatObviously I don't subscribe to the theory that "simpler is more gooder".
I do like reliability though and I still ride an FJR and will continue to. I wonder though - a third of the entries (more than any other brand) in the 2011 IBR were BMW. Somebody thinks thier reliable.
I'm new to riding and the K1600 is new to the market - they just released their third model year. Plenty of room for more bikes in the garage - maybe 2014.
David Foley
Well-known member
As far as price differential between the FJR and K1600 GTL are concerned consider this:
2013 FJR1300 - $15K (conservative price)
Add the following aftermarket accessories to get closer to an apples to apples comparison
1.) Aftermarket Suspension - $1000
2.) Heated Seats $1000 (Corbin or RDL or Sargent or take your pick)
3.) TPMS - $300
4.) Anti-Theft - $300
5.) Integrated LED Fog Lights - $600
6.) Crash Bars - $400
7.) Front and Rear Powerlets - $150
8.) Top Box, Bracket and Backrest - $900
9.) Top Box Brake Lights - $150
10.) GPS - $1100
11.) Pazzo Levers - $200
12.) Upgraded WindShield - $250
13.) Heli-Riser - $250
Total Aftermarket = $6600 plus the $15K price of the bike brings your total to $21,600.
You can pick up a fully loaded 2013 K1600 GTL with all of these features for $26K (verified through casual contact with multiple dealers). A difference of ~ $4400.
The bikes are not that far apart in price once aftermarket is taken into consideration.
Of course the cost of maintenance, higher on the BMW has to be taken into account.
2013 FJR1300 - $15K (conservative price)
Add the following aftermarket accessories to get closer to an apples to apples comparison
1.) Aftermarket Suspension - $1000
2.) Heated Seats $1000 (Corbin or RDL or Sargent or take your pick)
3.) TPMS - $300
4.) Anti-Theft - $300
5.) Integrated LED Fog Lights - $600
6.) Crash Bars - $400
7.) Front and Rear Powerlets - $150
8.) Top Box, Bracket and Backrest - $900
9.) Top Box Brake Lights - $150
10.) GPS - $1100
11.) Pazzo Levers - $200
12.) Upgraded WindShield - $250
13.) Heli-Riser - $250
Total Aftermarket = $6600 plus the $15K price of the bike brings your total to $21,600.
You can pick up a fully loaded 2013 K1600 GTL with all of these features for $26K (verified through casual contact with multiple dealers). A difference of ~ $4400.
The bikes are not that far apart in price once aftermarket is taken into consideration.
Of course the cost of maintenance, higher on the BMW has to be taken into account.
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Another way to write the article would be: You can add all the features of the BMW to the FJR and come in at $4400 less. You then have a comparable platform that has proven to be reliable and much cheaper to maintain over the years.
Bill
Bill
