DAMMIT!!! I said STAY RIGHT!!!

[Toecutter]

From my local rider's forum, last Sunday's group ride ended in what appears to have been a head-on collision between two bikes. For Kyle Beck (25? Y/O) the outcome was fatal.

I just found out about this last night, after signing on for the first time this week. I'm still just angry right now, so much so that I haven't even posted condolences over there yet.

Last week or so, I laid out my recipe for safe group riding, along with a qualifier of all the rides I've been on that went without grounding a bike. "The Pace", "Stay Right", pre-ride briefing, etc... and apparently it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Anyway, here's the thread, and another one, in case anybody wants to help out with funeral expenses.

I don't think I'll be riding with these peeps anytime soon (other than to a funeral next week), but there's hope, and some big wisdom....

During this time of sadness, I could not help bur think about how the creation of this forum, set in motion the events leading up to Kyle's death. Let's face it, if we hadn't created this forum, Kyle would most definitely still be alive. I've thought long and hard about this during the past week. With all the crashes lately and now Kyle's death, I was beginning to think we were doing more harm than good. I can't shake the feelings that I have blood on my hands for without this forum Kyle would have never met up for that ride and still be here with Kendra and their families.

Let's be extra safe out there this weekend.

 

[HYCLE]

From my local rider's forum, last Sunday's group ride ended in what appears to have been a head-on collision between two bikes. For Kyle Beck (25? Y/O) the outcome was fatal.
Last week or so, I laid out my recipe for safe group riding, along with a qualifier of all the rides I've been on that went without grounding a bike. "The Pace", "Stay Right", pre-ride briefing, etc... and apparently it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Toe, don't let one kid, that would not listen, stop you from saving others. Think of those that did take your advice and are still here.

From the video his girl friend posted showing his "Talents" it's scary how unsafe kids ride and brag about it. 104mph in a residential area, no run off area just square curbs and trees, many cross streets and driveways, etc...

video showing Kyle's talents

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I recently had a conversation with a local (older guy) rider -- and it still haunts me. He was telling me of riding his large American V-Twin in the coastal mts. of N.Cal when he ended up on the outer, on-coming, edge in a right hand curve (he went completely across the on-coming lane). He said his wife (passenger) joked about it and he (kind'a) joked about it when he told me the story. I shuddered.....

Of course, there must've been no one coming?

But, the fact remains that the 'seriousness' of the fun sport of motorcycling remains oblivious to some.

Sorry for the loss of your local rider.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Toe, don't let one kid, that would not listen, stop you from saving others. Think of those that did take your advice and are still here.

+1 on what HCYCLE said.

Sad news. No matter what the circumstances, it's not good to hear that a fellow rider is gone.

Jill

 

[James Burleigh]

From the website:

Kyle was NOT hot-dogging it in any way... he did everything right, full gear, riding responsibily... just got messed up in that one corner (downhill, decreasing radius, and off camber), going a little wide, with the other rider coming up also hugging the center lines... ten seconds sooner or later, and everything could have been so different.
 
Kyle was out cold for a while, then came to, but was incoherent... he didn't know where he was or what had happened, kept trying to get up and move around. Took ages for help to get there... Sergio held him nearly the entire time, until there were too many paramedics needing to get close to him...
 
We rode to the hospital, worried but thinking everything would be ok, he was moving and no back/neck injuries... but he had massive brain damage and they couldn't help him. He coded before he reached the hospital, per the doctor.
I'm sure Kyle wasn't hot-dogging when he blew the corner, whatever "hot-dogging" means. I don't know if going 90 MPH in a residential area with cross traffic (see referenced video) is "hot dogging," but it isn't leaving yourself an out either. The recent StreetMasters class we took re-emphasized the fact that moving smartly through a curve ("smartly" in a couple senses of that word) takes judgment and practice. He wasn't given the gift of luck in this case in order to be able to apply it as a lesson learned for the next time. It's a tragedy to lose another young person in a M.C. accident.

Toe, not clear to me (1) under what circumstance you preached the SRSA gospel (were you on that ride, or met that kid before?); and (2) where that quote comes from.

Jb

P.S. It looks like if the other rider had practiced SRSA, then this accident would not have happened. BTW, there was a curve like the one described above at Willow Springs (StreetMasters). They are a *****!--even after practicing them all day.

P.P.S. Here's additional evidence that if you are in an accident, even if you are moving around, get yourself (allow yourself to be taken) to the hospital. You can be injured internally, with effects coming over gradually. (Speaking from observation, not expertise.)

 

[Scab]

What is it about motorcycles? We've all seen the threads and read all the reasons for "why" we choose to ride. But, what is it about a motorcycle that makes so many feel as though they must exploit the very outer limits of the machine's capabilities? Why do so many seem to feel that to be 'better' they must push that envelope? And in my opinion, in order for one to truly find out where that line is, you have to cross it. Sometimes we don't come back.

I have been there.

This is an indictment of myself more than anything else. With all other machines that I own or operate, I have a keen sense of a safe, mechanically easy, non-abusive field of operation for said machine. I never find myself pushing my wife's car through a corner just to see how fast I can negotiate the turn. Instead, I intuitively know what is safe and easy, on both the machine, and the operator. Just what is it about a motorcycle that makes so many turn into Mr. Hyde?

I have been him.

Is this just human nature, or have we all collectively created the measure to which we will all fall short? Does the motorcycle prey upon our competitive nature? When I think about it, and barring obvious outside influence, it is just not that complicated to safely operate a motorcycle. Yet, these stories persist. Time and time again group rides lead to mistakes.

I have been him.

My enjoyment of the motorcycle does not diminish when I stay safely within the boundaries. Then why do I wander from center? Is the psychology of the motorcyclist truly that much different? Do we have an undefined need for risk or excess?

Am I him?

 

[James Burleigh]

What is it about motorcycles? ....

I wonder the same stuff, Scab. Thanks for throwing the question out there. Here's a rambling, practically stream-of-consciousness response:

At Willow Springs last weekend, watching the riders on the other tracks doing their club racing, I thought how much fun that looked and how I wanted to get into track days and even racing. But I don't think I will ever do it, because it's like you say--you push the envelope through turns to increase your skill and speed until you crash. How else do you probe and learn (on a race track)? And if you crash at high speed, you wreck your bike and risk serious injury.

So what is it about motorcycles and twisty public roads? First of all, I don't like riding like a "Harley" rider--cruising in low gears at low speeds. I don't feel safe doing that, and I don't enjoy (have fun) doing that.

If I were writing a philosophical argument, I would lay down the premise (possibly calling it "self-evident" or "a given") that it's fun to go fast. It's exhilarating. But it ain't a given as long as we have cruisers (people who like to cruise) out there. So it's only a given for me. I posit as a basic premise that I have fun going fast on a motorcycle.

It's also fun to (in California) always get to go to the font of the line, to keep moving in traffic, to feel like--quoting myself--a three-dimentional creature in a two-dimensional world.

Throw in there the skill factor. I recognize that riding a M.C. takes practice and skill. As the MSF says, the more you know the better it gets. I like to improve my skills (and being proud of that fact have posted in my signature my coursework--next up: Keith Code). Part of skills improvement is going through turns smoothly, expertly, consistently, safely...quickly. I get deep gratification by increasing my skills in the areas that define me, including oil painting, riding, my career, etc. It's part of my philosophy of life: to continue to develop along the journey and not remain static or plateau out.

But now here's the trick: On public roads you have to put it all together, along with imagination of the hay truck pulling out around the blind corner, to bring it all home in one piece that evening. That is so freakin' hard to do! (I know: no one ever got in trouble going through a turn too slow; go to top, start post again....).

It takes skills, training, practice, patience, self-control, good decision-making, judgment, common sense, suppression of ego, imagination, sobriety, and luck. It's hard enough to do that I am thankful my two sons have never shown the least interest in my bikes.

To hell with it. I'm going to fall back on a cliche: One feels more engaged in living if he / she engages in risk-taking activities. But I'm not advocating jumping out of planes without a parachute. I'm advocating risky behavior moderated with knowledge, skill, practice, and judgment. Otherwise it's just foolishness.

 

[user 6393]

I think part of the human/motorcycle connection is that you sit on top of the motor, you feel the power under your behind, with a helmet on you are constantly exposed to the smells of...life. I don't get that in my car. I don't get the urge to wind out the old mazda, but maybe because I feel somehow woven onto/into that bike it is part of the the pull towards pushing it now and then. Don't know, just a random thought.

RIP fallen rider..

 

[Silver Penguin]

There's some heavy thoughts expressed there Scab. Not the usual Friday fare, but perhaps more enjoyable to read.

Is there any one of us that can honestly deny the Jekyll/Hyde mentality when riding? I do try hard, to be the safest, sanest rider that I can be. But sometimes, there is a driver who needs to see my tail lights. Caution to the wind, as I get past the guy in the raised up pick up truck (usual offender). I've seen my mild-mannered, gentle, polite husband engage in a street race. Sure, he knows that is beyond stupid, but he won. As soon as the kid in the sports car was beaten, the speed limit was once again observed (as an advisory value).

The smarter part of me knows that a safe vehicle operator will not be the first to enter an intersection on a fresh, green light. Take the center lane, and let the vehicles on either side shield you from red light runner. Smart huh? Then why on earth would I want to scream away from the light first, with a big handful of throttle?

As in all things, recognizing and admitting your weaknesses is the first step to addressing them. But that begs the question as to whether we WANT to address them.

Jill

 

[Scab]

edited

 

[twowheelnut]

Don't think too deep about it. An accident is just that - an accident. People get hurt in the kitchen. People die in the home. People get hit by cars while sitting at the bus stop. People happen to work at the post office when a fellow employee gets a nasty pimple that he can't pop, then pulls out a carbine.

Live life. Don't contemplate death - it eventually catches up to you anyway.

 

[Nightshift]

I think part of the human/motorcycle connection is that you sit on top of the motor, you feel the power under your behind, with a helmet on you are constantly exposed to the smells of...life. I don't get that in my car. I don't get the urge to wind out the old mazda, but maybe because I feel somehow woven onto/into that bike it is part of the the pull towards pushing it now and then. Don't know, just a random thought.
RIP fallen rider..

Well I have a few words about what Barb is talkin about and that is on riding my FJR I notice when the tach is over 5500 or 6 G the bike takes on an 'otherwordly' personality and just the way my mind works in concert with the bike it becomes hold on for dear life situation. There is a type of intoxication when this happens and its like that arm ripping torque and scenes moving by so quickly that experience is really neat. Somehow I manage to back off the throttle because I don't know if a vehicle is going to pull in front or a radar gun is right ahead and then it becomes me just riding the bike on the street.

 

[James Burleigh]

I like that word "intoxication." I think you're onto something about how that power affects us. Can you get addicted to the M.C. rush?

At the recent M.C. workshop, one of the coaches said that luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

 

[noob]

Alot of thoughtful and interesting comments from everyone.

I'm an MSF instructor, and I gotta tell ya, becoming an instructor taught me Alot more then just taking the course did.

here's the rub... hard as one trys, it ain't easy getting through to people, especially where cornering is concerned. I look back on my own history... and u bet yer a** I'm here partly because I was lucky!

sadly, luck isn't with all of us... through no fault of our own...

 

[Silver Penguin]

I'm an MSF instructor, and I gotta tell ya, becoming an instructor taught me Alot more then just taking the course did.

I second that comment! One of the biggest lessons learned in the Rider Coach Prep was how lucky I've been so far. It's scary to think that not only was I riding with poor skills, but that I didn't even know it at the time. The skills have gotten much better, but I still have a LOT to learn.

Jill

 

[FJamR]

Rip fallen rider and prayers to his loved ones-

From your centralvalleyriders Toe, someone wrote, "I can't shake the feelings that I have blood on my hands for without this forum Kyle would have never met up for that ride and still be here with Kendra and their families." Of course we want to take care of our own and keep them safe. I remember a time when I was at a constant battle to impose my will on life and others. I was going through some stuff and this oldtimer says to me, I'm not in control of **** in life. I thought, the nerve of this old *******. The next day we had a talk and he really did help change my life in so many ways over the years (RIP Hank). I can help guide, give instructions to and encourage, but ultimately the ball is in their court. Life in general got much easier that day and I realized, as long as I have done my part, I don't have to carry the burden of people, places and things. I hope the author of the quoted post, will give himself a break and quite kicking his own ***.

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What is it about motorcycles? We've all seen the threads and read all the reasons for "why" we choose to ride. But, what is it about a motorcycle that makes so many feel as though they must exploit the very outer limits of the machine's capabilities? Why do so many seem to feel that to be 'better' they must push that envelope? And in my opinion, in order for one to truly find out where that line is, you have to cross it. Sometimes we don't come back. I have been there.

This is an indictment of myself more than anything else. With all other machines that I own or operate, I have a keen sense of a safe, mechanically easy, non-abusive field of operation for said machine. I never find myself pushing my wife's car through a corner just to see how fast I can negotiate the turn. Instead, I intuitively know what is safe and easy, on both the machine, and the operator. Just what is it about a motorcycle that makes so many turn into Mr. Hyde?

I have been him.

Is this just human nature, or have we all collectively created the measure to which we will all fall short? Does the motorcycle prey upon our competitive nature? When I think about it, and barring obvious outside influence, it is just not that complicated to safely operate a motorcycle. Yet, these stories persist. Time and time again group rides lead to mistakes.

I have been him.

My enjoyment of the motorcycle does not diminish when I stay safely within the boundaries. Then why do I wander from center? Is the psychology of the motorcyclist truly that much different? Do we have an undefined need for risk or excess?

Am I him?

Kind of strange Scab, I have many times pondered your thoughts. I have wondered what drives me to ride like I enjoy, is it in my genetic make-up, or days of racing that drive me to get out front? The nature or nurture question became irrelevant because it simply is, for me. I have realized Mr. Hyde isn't coming out, but my true self. I ride street just about daily and enjoyment for me happens outside the legal limits. I will always ride street but have also gone back to my dirt roots and decided to push my boundary there instead of on the asphalt where it was going. It really reaffirmed it when my brother in law recently died in a m/c accident.

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[Last Chance]

I don't know...But for me it is like flying. When I got my pilot's license years ago I discovered that maneuvers "close" to the ground were a real rush.

Therefore I enjoyed landings and take-offs and stalls, spins, etc. I especially enjoyed sneaking off to the desert and "hedge-hopping". For me, riding a MC has the same swooping, rushing sensation. It is intoxicating to some extent.

However, 30+ years of commercial driving has given me, I hope, the advantage of increased defensive driving skills. One needs such skills on their MC. One is "safely" encased in their car or truck, on a MC there is no real protection except defensive skills. Even then, if they want to kill you they can!

LC

P.S. But, on the FJR they have to catch me first...or have great timing!

 

[MojaveFJR]

We cannot be responsible for the actions/inactions of others. You did your part. You parted with wisdom and experience. Nothing more you could of done.

I am a destiny kind of guy. It was his time. No matter what Kyle was doing he was going be taken at that moment.

SHake it off.

 

[Toecutter]

Toe, not clear to me (1) under what circumstance you preached the SRSA gospel (were you on that ride, or met that kid before?); and (2) where that quote comes from.

I posted about safe group riding practices on another topic in that forum, started by another local FJR owner, after being somewhat fed up with the rate of crashes on organized outings. Something like, "Who's next?"....

From somebody way better than I'll ever be....

Absolutely agree 100%.We are all talking about different sight lines here. wide open sweepers I can agree on the late apex and having a better sight line, but in the tight, tight twisty stuff that's common in the Sierras and other mountain passes, a wide apex maybe gain you a foot or two sight line, not worth it IMHO, stay tight right, you've room to move left if there's debris in the road, and if the corner decreases.......lean more, the FJR will lean a lot more when the feelers touch down, quite a bit more !

Left hander.... .stay right,.......... .right hander..... .stay right......Stay Right, Stay Alive !