DAMMIT!!! I said STAY RIGHT!!!

[ctfjr]

I like that word "intoxication." I think you're onto something about how that power affects us. Can you get addicted to the M.C. rush?
At the recent M.C. workshop, one of the coaches said that luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

Its a sad topic - one repeated too many times. My former riding buddy is riding a wheelchair now through no fault of his own, but does that matter?

Your quote is a variant of "Success is that intersection where preparation meets opportunity". I buy that easier than luck.

I'm sure we all think back to times / events that we were, for a lack of a btter word, pure ********. That we all made it through is probably more luck.

 

[Docholiday]

I don't know that I speed more on the bike than I do in my car. I wish we had spaces here other than racetracks where we could test out the limits of out vehicles like the Autobahn in Germany. But the bike takes way more skill to drive at any speed and errors or misjudgments have much more harsh consequences. We all try to deny the risks, but a biker who is involved in a crash is 3 times as likely to die as a car driver. The sense of risk somehow makes the experience of riding a bike more intense than driving a car. The degree of exposure to the elements is also heightened on the bike. Any ride or trip that I take on the bike is way more memorable than the same route in a car. That sense of connectedness and risk makes it feel like I am living and experiencing things much more fully than if everything was perfectly safe/boring in a car. The romantic in me exults in living life more fully but the practical side of me emphasizes safety. That is where the skill comes in. If the skill level is high enough, we blend excitement and safety. Let us never forget though, that the risk is real. I grieve for all the young and old riders who pay the ultimate price to participate in our sport. I think we owe it to ourselves and the rest of the biking community to encourage safe and skillful riding. Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy. I hope if any of you ever sees me doing something foolish, you would take the time to point it out to me.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy.

Talking about the less skilled....... I heard an unforgettable comment this morning. While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why. The response? "Nah, I don't need to do that. I'm not a front brake kinda guy. Never use it when I'm riding on the road".

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

that is a shamed and my prayers are with them both and the families.

Your post was good, but maybe you should refresh it as it was posted in dec of 06 and maybe more will heed your words. That is the one thing I took away from my trip to the dragon during o5 eom... stay right it seemed everyone just wanted half my lane on that ride, passing others in my lane...

Almost everyday on my way home, I find myself making a sharp left turn staying right and staying in control, because it seems the suv's on my road just seem to always be taking half my lane as i come arounds that corner and get readt to enter the sharp right turn.

So preach away and maybe like others have said someone will remember hearing or reading those words of wisdom....

 

[madmike2]

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

You weren't ready with the percentage of braking done with the front brake (like...75%?!?!) and how much more effective that is?

At Streetmasters, during the braking exercise, one of the H.D. riders went skidding through the cones....back wheel locked up and tire smoking, front wheel rolling (keeping the forks from hitting the ground?). Something like 40-45 feet past the brake point. On my next pass, at 25 mph, I stopped in 15 ft. It could save your life, or at least save you from an ambulance ride.

 

[Silver Penguin]

You weren't ready with the percentage of braking done with the front brake (like...75%?!?!) and how much more effective that is?
At Streetmasters, during the braking exercise, one of the H.D. riders went skidding through the cones....back wheel locked up and tire smoking, front wheel rolling (keeping the forks from hitting the ground?). Something like 40-45 feet past the brake point. On my next pass, at 25 mph, I stopped in 15 ft. It could save your life, or at least save you from an ambulance ride.

Oh yes, I had the facts ready for him. Approximately 80% of braking is done with the front and 20% with the rear. I explained that we were trying to build a habit, to create muscle memory so that in an emergency situation, he would do the right thing. The low speeds that the students were doing, and the light weight of the bikes pretty much allowed for the Double-Footed-Doc-Marten stop i.e. flailing both feet in the air for ten yards, then dragging the feet along the floor until the bike came to a stop.

And I get a real kick out of the kids' reactions to seeing my bike. One student even asked me if I REALLY ride it. Yes. Really. All the way here then all the way home. I'm taking to Arizona next weekend. The student asked what kind of truck I'd be using for the bike. Their reactions are priceless!

Jill

 

[noob]

Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy.

Talking about the less skilled....... I heard an unforgettable comment this morning. While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why. The response? "Nah, I don't need to do that. I'm not a front brake kinda guy. Never use it when I'm riding on the road".

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

I don't know Jill, maybe something like "well then we'll peel yer stupid *** off the brick wall you ******* slam into then! hahaha!"

okay... sorry... that's not too pithy... I'll think of something pithy later

honestly now, bout all I ever say is yer missin out on 70% of yer braking power, (as mentioned), but I would like to say the other

 

[drew231506]

Lessons of Death- by Toecutter

Volume 100--------

Toe, if i should pass while riding a motorcycle my wish would be for you not to post my mistake and how I could/should have survived.

Not that I don't appreciate your many lessons, some have stuck with me.

Godspeed Kyle

 

[Silver Penguin]

I don't know Jill, maybe something like "well then we'll peel yer stupid *** off the brick wall you ******* slam into then! hahaha!"

LOL! There was a brick wall, about fifty feet in front. Had he been doing 15mph instead of about 10mph, who knows? I guess that's one of the reasons that rider coaches have to be trained in first aid and CPR. Can you picture his face, if I used your response, with my prim and proper British accent?

Jill

 

[dcarver]

Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy.

Talking about the less skilled....... I heard an unforgettable comment this morning. While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why. The response? "Nah, I don't need to do that. I'm not a front brake kinda guy. Never use it when I'm riding on the road".

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

I don't use four fingers on clutch and brake, I feel it leaves inadequate bar grip control for situations like when you hit a deer. I keep my braking system fully up to top level performance and can activate the ABS with just my index? finger. (the one left of TWN's pointing finger)

Same for the clutch. One finger only. I guess that comes from years of riding MX and dirt.. You never know when the rut /downed rider/ rock is going to cause severe energy imparted to the forks.

Not saying this works for all; and I tried today to front brake with 4 fingers on the lever; way awkward for me.

Back on thread - Toe's message of ride right has saved my *** 2x now - would have been 100% impact otherwise.

Back on thread 2 - Jill is correct; use the front brake. If it takes 4 fingers to haul it down, then use all 4.

Oh, and Thank You Toe, Thank You; great advice.

 

[Silver Penguin]

I don't use four fingers on clutch and brake, I feel it leaves inadequate bar grip control for situations like when you hit a deer. I keep my braking system fully up to top level performance and can activate the ABS with just my index? finger.
Same for the clutch. One finger only. I guess that comes from years of riding MX and dirt.. You never know when the rut /downed rider/ rock is going to cause severe energy imparted to the forks.

Not saying this works for all; and I tried today to front brake with 4 fingers on the lever; way awkward for me.

Ah ha! You illustrate my point perfectly - that we revert to our instincts. Your background is MX, where hanging on tight is essential. Using skills taught to beginning road riders goes against the grain for you.

I've only ever ridden on the street, and am now, albeit rather clumsily, learning to ride off-road. My bike would be quite happy with one finger on each of the levers, but I just can't do it comfortably. I imagine that riding without a helmet would be the same. Years of conditioning make these actions seem impossible.

LOL! I tried to give the MSF kid an out, suggesting that he might have an off road background, but he didn't.

Jill

 

[Checkswrecks]

Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy.

Talking about the less skilled....... I heard an unforgettable comment this morning. While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why. The response? "Nah, I don't need to do that. I'm not a front brake kinda guy. Never use it when I'm riding on the road".

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

I'm with Don in using two fingers on each lever. The other thing it does for you is to help control the force being applied. If I'd used 4 fingers on the Ducati, I would have been constantly locking up the front tire.

Even so, I guess the pithy replay for next time is something like "You're not on the street, you're in my class, and I want you to be able to use the other 80% of the brakes." Of course, hind-sight is so much easier...

Bob

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Toecutter is right to keep giving the sermon to the less skilled/ foolhardy.

Talking about the less skilled....... I heard an unforgettable comment this morning. While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why. The response? "Nah, I don't need to do that. I'm not a front brake kinda guy. Never use it when I'm riding on the road".

I wish I had had a pithy response ready for him.

'Checkswrecks': I'm with Don in using two fingers on each lever. The other thing it does for you is to help control the force being applied. If I'd used 4 fingers on the Ducati, I would have been constantly locking up the front tire.

'dcarver'<snip>: I don't use four fingers on clutch and brake, I feel it leaves inadequate bar grip control .... and can activate the ABS with just my index? finger.

No pithy response -- but, to keep the 'sermon' going:

It's not so much about the brakes -- but rolling off the throttle. Keeping one, two, or three fingers on the throttle while using the front brake lever invites keeping the throttle 'on' while braking. Since you can't 'stop' and 'go' at the same time it's really a bad thing to do.

Contrarily, using all four fingers of the right hand on the front brake lever 'automatically' rolls off the throttle -- what you really want to do when slowing and braking.

I offer, also, that using all four fingers of the right hand on the front brake lever provides more riders with a better ability to modulate brake performance.

ymmv :blink:

 

[Toecutter]

Toe, if i should pass while riding a motorcycle my wish would be for you not to post my mistake and how I could/should have survived.

Granted.

My wish is that nobody should pass while riding a motorcycle. Can you all help me out with that one?

I don't believe that dying is a simple fact of riding. Neither does my local Police Department. I don't think they've ever had a LOD motor officer fatality, and their two outcomes for officer-involved collision investigations are "At fault" and "Avoidable". No accidents....

I tend to believe crashing is a consequence of not riding within your limitations. For some, that means staying off bikes altogether. At the other end of the spectrum, there's Rossi and his colleagues. The rest of us fall somewhere in between, and this ain't a race. The trick is to ride your safe ride and, as Dirty Harry says, "A man's got to know his limitations".

 

[wfooshee]

I tend to believe crashing is a consequence of not riding within your limitations. For some, that means staying off bikes altogether. At the other end of the spectrum, there's Rossi and his colleagues. The rest of us fall somewhere in between, and this ain't a race. The trick is to ride your safe ride and, as Dirty Harry says, "A man's got to know his limitations".

That is well said, but it takes a certain level of maturity to even acknowledge that these limitations exist, and so many "less-than-thirties" simply don't see it. The invincibility factor of the young.

 

[drew231506]

I tend to believe crashing is a consequence of not riding within your limitations.

Not all of the time though, of course things are preventable in hindsight. But saying someone is automatically riding over their skill level and that is why they crashed is an assumption. There could have been many factors, even assuming the rider was at fault. If I get T-boned at an intersection because some drunk runs a redlight, I would hate to think everyone would come on here and say I should have looked both ways again.

It's just like the guy on here that never wears a helmet, and always says everyone has to work on their skills, throttle control etc. Give me a break. Things happen all of the time on a motorcycle that you aren't going to react correctly to, just hope you can say that it was a close call and try to learn from it. These can be split second decisions, do i brake or accelerate, swerve left or right, hit it head on, all of these could mean life or death. You choose left, woops wrong call, truck coming head on, you choose to go right, wrong, deer in your path, you brake, wrong, rear ended...you better guess right and choose the one that'll give you the best chance of survival. But then theres those who don't get to say that it was a close call, guessed wrong, never saw it. It also helps to have lady luck on your side when something goes wrong or you guess wrong.

Braking-

I use the two fingers, brake and clutch. And some do brake while still giving some throttle, helps the front from dipping. k bye bye

 

[Toecutter]

While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why.

Doesn't that make it kinda hard to do burnouts?

 

[dcarver]

While teaching an MSF class, I saw a young man stop with two fingers on the clutch and one finger on the front brake. He was asked to use four fingers on each, and told why.

Doesn't that make it kinda hard to do burnouts?

Yeah, but the stoppies are phenomenal!

 

[Scab]

Preach it, Reverend Toe. Some may take offense, some may tire of the sermons. But if it saves only one...

 

[wfooshee]

LOL! I tried to give the MSF kid an out, suggesting that he might have an off road background, but he didn't.
Jill

It occurs to me to ask: isn't "Would you like the certificate for completion of this course?" a valid reply to the "I don't need to do that" guy?