Damn near collected another Bambi

[dcarver]

KrZy8, 2006 FJR (Gen2 for the noobies), +150k on the clock..

Near deer strike this morning. Full front/rear ABS actuation, for 'seconds' forever to scrub off speed. No bad results, steered away from Bambi while in ABS lockup....

But..

I used to be able to engage front ABS with 1 finger on brake lever. This morning, not so. Arthritis in finger, degrading of brakes due to years of use etc... Even the rear brake seemed to take a LOT of pressure to hit ABS braking pulses.

I want better brakes. 1 finger-front lever ABS-engaging braking.

Is it possible? Have you upgraded to Spiegler, Braking, etc and have EXCELLENT results?

Yes, I know, 6 year old braking systems need new lines, pistons/seals, blah blah. And I'll do those too - but has anyone really got their FJR to 'performance level' braking? If so, talk to me..

 

[ahchiu]

Don,

Glad you missed it , bet you had to change your shorts whe you got home, I went to EBC pads and they seem to grab better.

 

[wfooshee]

A couple of things...... after saying congrats for the avoidance.

It may have simply felt like forever, since your mind was in an oh-****-not-again-I-don't-wanna-do-this mode of perception of reality.

I'm not sure that brakes "degrade" due to years of use. Other than the fluid. How long has the brake fluid been in there? OTOH, some pad materials work better than others, i.e. generate more friction for the same clamping force, but such pads generally do so at the expense of rotor wear. RH can tell you about his experience, getting all of 3000 miles or so from a set of EBC pads.

Lastly, if you were hard into ABS, you were actually extending your braking distance compared to absolute incipient lockup. ABS does not stop better than non-ABS, it maintains contorl compared to non-ABS. It does so by releasing the brakes. Not criticizing your reaction, just a point of fact. But that slight reduction in deceleration is almost always preferable to dumping the bike with front-wheel lockup. (Click second Crash Club icon in my sig to why I feel that way.)

My first guess about improving the feel of your brakes at the levers would be to replace the fluid. Lines, seals, and all that stuff has very little to do with brake performance. Lines supposedly make the brakes "feel" better. None of that stuff changes the mechanical advantage of the lever over the caliper hydraulically. But old brake fluid after absorbing water very well might.

 

[bgross]

Don -

Sounds like the stars aligned, the gods smiled and your instincts were pure... Congratulations on your FAILURE to thin the herd!

 

[escapefjrtist]

Glad you didn't collect Bambi II DC. All good advice so far, freshen everything up and make sure it's in tip top condition.

As far as better brakes...increased mechanical leverage or more bite in the pads [in exchange for disc wear] are your options.

Let us know what you find!

--G

 

[lonerider]

Glad you missed the damn pest, that could have turned out much worse. ABS has saved my butt a couple of times already, love it.

 

[dcarver]

I've already done all the typical stuff - new pads (various mfrs and grades), fresh fluid, etc. I haven't rebuilt calipers, pistons, seals yet. And the stock brake lines are 7 years old now.

I'm looking at something like this..

 

[tuggy]

I've fitted a UK one of these on the flat underside below my headlights because on the road to my wife's work there have been 6 deer near misses.

I guess it works as I haven't seen any deer.

https://deerwhistle.com

 

[ionbeam]

Oh sure, use the deer to justify $$$ new brake parts

Sounds like you would be better served by buying a couple of deer whistles. Knowing where you live (and having ridden in your forest rat infested area) I have to ask if this event took place on dirt or pavement?

Rotors and pads shouldn't change the feel or pull of the brake levers, the pads are uniform all the way through. Extended hard braking may make worn rotors or pads overheat but for an emergency grab they shouldn't make a difference. If you really want to make a big difference you need to change the master cylinder or pots on the wheels for more surface area or volume. If you have some of Ray's shop tools you could design a funky compound joint to multiply work done by the lever for the same pull distance. Or, just as funky, change the lever pivot point for more mechanical advantage.

Edit: While I was typing tuggy was posting about deer whistles. Glad it's working for tuggy, from what I've seen in Ct the results have been different.

 

[lonerider]

Edit: While I was typing tuggy was posting about deer whistles. Glad it's working for tuggy, from what I've seen in Ct the results have been different.

After #2 kamikaze forest rat, I installed a Hornet https://www.xp3hornet.com/ on one of my Suzukis. When I saw the power wiring was pretty small (18-20 ga.), I knew it wouldn't be very loud and it's not. I was not impressed enough to bother putting them on the other bikes. My Wing's stereo playing through the bike's speakers makes more noise.

 

[HotRodZilla]

You could install loud pipes...They save lives.

Seriously; maybe try some of those Pazzo knock offs. I remember you liked my Pazzos when we were at Ray's. The improved feel is worth the money.

Change your fluid, go back to OEM pads if you've changed them and maybe add those pretty Brake Tech rotors; although I don't know if they'll really help. You can go to SS lines, but I've heard they're a phenomenal PITA for what they cost for not much overall improvement. However, the improvement I've heard about is "initial bite." Which may be what you're looking for.

Don't waste your money on deer whistles. Those things are useless pieces of crap. New horns may be in order if you haven't replaced the OEMs yet. You never really know which way those idiots are gonna run though.

AND, finally, I'm glad you're ok and didn't hit anything. I'm also sorry you're getting old and your arthritis is kicking in. I wish we could all stay 22 forever. Its not fair, but it's what we've got.

 

[yamafitter]

I would first check your stock brake rotors for runout before spending a ton of money on new rotors. If your rotors are in good shape then you are not going to gain much by changing them. If you read the section on rotor honing on the Brake Tech website there may be something to be gained by cleaning your current rotors.

SS brake lines do improve the feel of the brakes and makes sure that most of the braking pressure reaches the wheel calipers. Be aware that going this route is expensive. The only one that has done it on a FJR that I am aware of if Griff over in Calgary. You may want to PM him for a review.

 

[flagstaff]

deleted

 

[scubatech]

You could install loud pipes...They save lives.
Seriously; maybe try some of those Pazzo knock offs. I remember you liked my Pazzos when we were at Ray's. The improved feel is worth the money.

Change your fluid, go back to OEM pads if you've changed them and maybe add those pretty Brake Tech rotors; although I don't know if they'll really help. You can go to SS lines, but I've heard they're a phenomenal PITA for what they cost for not much overall improvement. However, the improvement I've heard about is "initial bite." Which may be what you're looking for.

Don't waste your money on deer whistles. Those things are useless pieces of crap. New horns may be in order if you haven't replaced the OEMs yet. You never really know which way those idiots are gonna run though.

AND, finally, I'm glad you're ok and didn't hit anything. I'm also sorry you're getting old and your arthritis is kicking in. I wish we could all stay 22 forever. Its not fair, but it's what we've got.

Zilla is right on deer whistles. We had them on our big snowplows here in Colorado and nothing was gained. they were an inexpensive trial test.

 

[weekend rider]

Test after test proves abs stops quicker than non abs brakes. Better stoping power you need to increase the brake pad surface area to the rotor which results more powerful stopping and shorter distance

 

[RadioHowie]

If you REALLY wanna stop better, and spend crazy amounts of money doing so, put your POS Gen II on a diet and remove about 200 pounds.

There's enough titanium in the world to accomplish this...it only takes money and a-resolve-nearing-insanity to complete the challenge.

 

[beemerdons]

If you REALLY wanna stop better, and spend crazy amounts of money doing so, put your POS Gen II on a diet and remove about 200 pounds.
There's enough titanium in the world to accomplish this...it only takes money and a-resolve-nearing-insanity to complete the challenge.

You know don't you, that you can be discussing global warming and the exact size of Kim Kardashian's **** and RadioHowie will still find a way to blame it all on the POS GenII's!

 

[ionbeam]

Test after test proves abs stops quicker than non abs brakes. Better stoping power you need to increase the brake pad surface area to the rotor which results more powerful stopping and shorter distance

I would cordially like to disagree to a point. On average, a fully ABS assisted stop will be 4% - 14% longer than a non ABS assisted stop -- providing that the rider is highly trained, proficient, practiced, unsurprised, has good tires and is on a good road surface. For all the rest of us, there is ABS which keeps the wheels from locking allowing a controlled stop under most conditions, albeit a bit longer.

In brakes we are talking about dry kinetic friction. All things being equal, using the same pad material and rotor material you will typically get better braking results by increasing clamping force or increasing the rotor diameter before increasing pad surface. Kinetic friction is in part about turning mechanical force into heat. Given the same pad and rotor material, this is where pad surface area helps.

 

[wfooshee]

I, too, will disagree with the ABS stopping quicker.

The only way ABS is quicker is if the non-ABS rider is not using maximum braking for fear of locking.

Even on the same ABS-equipped bike, a rider will stop shorter if he's right up against lockup vs. heavily into ABS. Since ABS is releasing the brakes to prevent locking, stopping distance has to be longer if ABS is used hard.

The ABS advantage is not stopping distance, but control. It adds no traction, but maximizes the use of available traction.

I also have a real-world data point on it. I grew up driving (spiritedly) the many dirt roads around my county, thinking myself to be the world's future champion rally driver. I know how hard the car would stop with locked wheels in the dirt. One evening I was scouting a new road and came around a hot bend to face a stop sign. Damn, who put that there?!?!?! Hard brakes!!!!! But this car had ABS, so instead of locking and digging in to a nice, maybe sideways stop, it remained under perfect control as it traveled through the stop sign at a barely reduced rate of speed, with the brake pedal hammering back at me the whole time. Fortunately I had no cross traffic.

I literally know of no single comparison where all things being equal, ABS stops shorter than non-ABS. Not one. (And the all things being equal is the important part. Don't compare otherwise unlike systems.)