Datel Install

[RadioHowie]

Good Catch!

CM, I think you're on to something....and if LAF was ashamed of his electrical diagnostic skills before, he's probably contemplating ritual suicide right about now. :assassin:

 

[wheatonFJR]

"Here, let me hold the tester for you and...

I know nothing electrical so I just watching the wizards work...thinking it's all magic.

 

[ionbeam]

Mr Mesh is correct about your DMM. All other things ya done am good.

The red meter lead is in the correct hole, the black lead needs to be plugged into the COM socket. As Mr Mesh says, the dial should be set to point to the 20 VDC setting. The BAT scale on the DMM is a convenient setting for measuring 9 volt and 1.5 volt household batteries.

You need to do the same tests again once the meter leads and settings are correct. The testing you did was good and your pixs are very helpful for the Gen II owners.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The 9V and 1.5V BAT selector knob positions for small battery tests also load the batteries with a nominal test current. My meter uses a 6 mA test current for 9 volt batteries and 100 mA current for 1.5 volt batteries.

With these small loads the meter offers a more realistic indication of a battery's condition.

 

[LAF]

Ok then, I will have at it again.

As I said I would not be posting and asking if I had a clue.

I am very scared of electricity and electronics and have been my whole life. When I was about 8 or so (55 now) my Brother was messing around with a pole lamp. Well he has red hair and I looked over and it was strait up and he could not let go of the light. I ran over and block tackled him to knock him off the light. Since then I have had no desire to work with electricity, period.

Not an excuse for being stupid, but a real reason why I am ignorant to this subject.

Ok will get her done soon here. It was raining yesterday when I did that and today just will be cold so I will post up what I find.

Ohh and I drink Maker's Mark and will be happy to ride one up to drink, and one for a gift at the outing that was mentioned. Do not know the chemical composition of it but 3 fingers in a glass always makes me smile.

 

[ionbeam]

We will get ya there, one small step at a time.

FWIW, 12-15 volts won't hurt you, even if it is at one million amps. Anything below 50 VDC can not overcome the resistance of your skin so you will not get a shock. Do stay clear of the coil outputs and spark plug wires Even though 14 volts DC can't shock you it can make awesome sparks and arc weld tools to the frame should you let a tool get across the + output of the battery and the frame.

Here in the North East and Canada your libation of choice will fit right in. MEM uses FJRGuy's three fingers to determine drink size because her three fingers don't equal one shot :lol:

 

[LAF]

Ok went for it again and this is what I got.

With battery only

Started, and the first time I saw those numbers on the Datel.

After cold Idle.

Only odd thing is I have never seen the Datel show that voltage.

Other then that I think I did it right so if the need is there, we can move on.

EDIT:

I have thought about this after posting and I do have a question.

Why it is showing 14.74 from the plug, but showing 14.18 on the Datel at the battery? I thought I was looking for 14.40?

Also I have to say the plugs were dielectric to death. And it did not seem thick, had a rather snotty look to it. Also the three white wire female plug, had a slight, very slight, hint of yellow on it but I gave it no thought! I should have snapped those shots! I did!!!!

This is the Red/Black and you can see the center hole that is not used is packed.

And of course the three White wire.

The ACF-50 was mentioned on this forum and is what I used to clean both sides of the plugs, I also used q-tips and very lightly wire pipe cleaners. The ACF-50 is a purple like substance that seems safe for circuit boards, switches, and dries to a anti corroding like layer. Least that is what it says on the can.

I am wondering if a more judicious cleaning of the plugs is called for? I mean I was very light on them and could for sure have dressed the male plugs in the R/R with some fine grit paper. And I just ran ACF-50, through the female sides and blessed them lightly with the wire pipe cleaners, which are very handy to have around by the way.

So anyway my thoughts and questions so far on this post?

 

[rfulcher]

This looks like great results.

My Datel Meter readings are the same that yours were, typically showing 13.8 volts. If I am reading this correctly the only thing you did to obtain the improvement was clean the the 2 wire connection to the R/R? (red and black?)

If so the would be most exellent.

 

[Zorlac]

Looks good, I'd call it done.

 

[Donal]

The ACF-50 was mentioned on this forum and is what I used to clean both sides of the plugs, I also used q-tips and very lightly wire pipe cleaners. The ACF-50 is a purple like substance that seems safe for circuit boards, switches, and dries to a anti corroding like layer. Least that is what it says on the can.

I am wondering if a more judicious cleaning of the plugs is called for? I mean I was very light on them and could for sure have dressed the male plugs in the R/R with some fine grit paper. And I just ran ACF-50, through the female sides and blessed them lightly with the wire pipe cleaners, which are very handy to have around by the way.

So anyway my thoughts and questions so far on this post?

I would call that good. The connectors are plated for a reason (corrosion protection). It's not a good idea to remove it unless you have severe corrosion and the original 'plating' has already been sacrificed. I would say you did exactly right, just remove any light crud and apply ACF-50. The ACF-50 will 'creep' and provide continued protection. :clapping:

Don

 

[LAF]

I would say nothing is solved.

Why 14.74 at the pins of the plug and 14.18 on the battery?

I still only read 14.05 max on the Datel on the road?

I had to button it up because it goes to service this am. 8000 mile plus clutch, brake, and coolant flush.

I just repacked the plugs with silicone paste and rode yesterday, and today for service.

In my mind I have solved nothing and will need to go back at it after service.

 

[ionbeam]

Voltage leaves the R/R at 14.75 volts and arrives at the battery at 14.05 volts. What is between the R/R and the battery?

The R/R wires go to the starter relay and terminate there. This is the only place the R/R wires go, the R/R #12 wires end at the starter relay on threaded studs. The heavy gauge battery wires start at the starter relay threaded studs and go to the battery posts.

When you get your FJR back you will have to pull off the right side faring to gain access to the starter relay terminals. Using the battery ground post for your DMM black lead measure the voltage on the + (red wire) terminal on the starter relay. Measure directly on the threaded stud and not on the cable ends. This voltage reading will determine the next step(s).

The voltage you are measuring at your battery posts is not bad, nor worrisome but it is less than typical for a new FJR. I'm not a fan of dielectric grease, especially in Weather Pack connectors like the ones on the R/R. A little dielectric grease is not good and a lot is bad IMO, ya done good cleaning up the connectors.

The next time you have your battery terminals available set your DMM to the AC scale and measure directly across the battery terminals. Anything over 0.400 VAC is notable. Your DMM may not be best equipped to make a meaningful AC check but it's worth a try.

 

[Constant Mesh]

When the engine is running the charging system is powering the bike's electrics and the highest measured voltage will be seen at the output terminals of the rectifier/regulator (R/R). The voltage is always highest at the source.

When the R/R is not overloaded its output voltage will range from 14.2 - 14.8 volts. Since the R/R's output current must flow in wires to the battery and all other electrical devices the measured voltages at all those devices will be less than what's measured at the R/R. Voltages decrease as the currents flow through the wires.

The type of battery used on the FJR requires a charging system which has a regulated output ranging from 14.0 - 14.8 volts. The battery won't fully charge if the charging voltage is below 14.0 volts.

When you're running the engine at normal running speeds current is flowing into the battery, not out. The battery is being charged. When you have current flowing out from the battery it must be a temporary, brief event -- switching on the ignition and starting the engine.

 

[Constant Mesh]

One might wonder if the black wire return bus network has many daisy-chained connections between the R/R and the battery. Hopefully there's a continuous, no connection circuit between the R/R and the battery but I doubt it.

The daisy-chained mechanical connector return bus is bizarre. Maybe it allows for a much easier assembly at the factory. Afterwards it would seem to be a liability.

 

[ionbeam]

At 13.2 volts the battery is being trickle charged, but it will take a while for it to recover from a starting drain at this voltage level. In general, when battery voltage drops below 13.4 volts it is entering a Bad Place.

Where I'm going with my directions to LAF is to determine the easiest way for him to perform a voltage drop test across the cables and terminals. I have seen several voltage problems fixed by just cleaning the terminals and connectors at the starter relay. Where and how the meter leads are placed makes a big difference in the results.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Nevermind...

 

[Harald]

The 9V and 1.5V BAT selector knob positions for small battery tests also load the batteries with a nominal test current. My meter uses a 6 mA test current for 9 volt batteries and 100 mA current for 1.5 volt batteries.

With these small loads the meter offers a more realistic indication of a battery's condition.

The same thing can be accomplished by using an analog meter, which is one reason I still keep that old Radio Shack meter around.

Another reason to keep an analog meter around is that they can't be beat for finding intermittent connections. Watching the needle on the ohm scale while wiggling wires, quickly shows flakey connections when the needle jumps. It's hard/impossible to see those variations using a digital meter.

Of course you electrical guru's know all that, but I thought I'd mention it for others following along.

 

[Harald]

I have seen several voltage problems fixed by just cleaning the terminals and connectors at the starter relay.

And I actually had the starter relay go bad on my 07. Pushing the start button pulled the contactor down (you could hear it click), but no continuity through the main contacts on the relay (still had voltage drop reading across the main contacts). Because it was intermittent, the dealer insisted on replacing the start switch assembly and then when the bike continued to not start intermittently they finally listened to me and replaced the starter relay that I originally told them was bad. It was annoying having to take the bike to the dealer twice, but at least YES paid for the parts (otherwise I wouldn't have taken it to the dealer).

 

[spike747]

There's a slight difference in the internal resistance of the two different measurement devices. I don't get why this is an issue what so ever. A 0.2 volt difference in charging systems is nothing. But if you want the most accurate measurement, get a Fluke meter. The craftsman is probably not accurate enough to be the stable source. None of my cheap meters show consist voltages below 50 mV. But the flukes do. Every time.

 

[RadioHowie]

There's a slight difference in the internal resistance of the two different measurement devices. I don't get why this is an issue what so ever. A 0.2 volt difference in charging systems is nothing. But if you want the most accurate measurement, get a Fluke meter. The craftsman is probably not accurate enough to be the stable source. None of my cheap meters show consist voltages below 50 mV. But the flukes do. Every time.

+1.....Fluke meters are ALL we use in the radio biz.....BUT -- they ARE pricey!