Discussion vs. Lecture

[beemerdons]

Going to resist (somewhat) the temptation to hijak the **** outa this, to tell some of you incompetent pickle suckers to... lick the ass cheese from a sheep's ballsak..

:****: :****: :****: :****:

:jester:

Well Bust, just don't forget to wipe down your sheep's ballsack ass cheese with inorganic citrus juice before you lick it. You Owosso redheaded ******* stepchild!

Oh, man. You guys are grossing me out. :huh:

Bustanut joker Buddy, please send Hans some of your pictures of this action. Send him the high resolution ones by private message, those are the very best ones!

 

[BadPigg]

Wow, humbling.

Just went back to my last post on another nonrelevant topic.

.....counted 21 references to oneself.

....now in self loathing mode, for shame, for shame!!

 

[jwhite518]

Often the latter is done under the guise of "Ride your own ride" When I hear that mantra, I know I'm in for some ****-munch to tell me how to ride. It often goes like this:
"Thanks for coming on today's geezerville ride everyone". As a point of safety, let's all "Ride your own ride" .....and before they can get those words out of their mouth they're laying out a shitload of expectation, on what is expected of the day. Usually this person can't ride worth a ****. Usually this person has a track record of stacking it up.

Hm, I don't ever remember a group ride led by SkooterG.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Would it be better to say, instead of 'Ride Your Own Ride', to suggest that each ride their own way and mind their own business? If I'm asked for advice, I'll give it. If not, I will stay quiet. I'll certainly voice my opinions here on the forum. However, one must remember that opinions are like ********, we all have one and everyone else's stinks.

By RJ's standards, I'm doing OK. Haven't been down at more than 1mph on the street (yet) and working hard to keep it that way. But unless I'm wearing the Rider Coach shirt, I'm not going to tell anyone how to ride.

 

[exskibum]

Me thinks this is the best ******* post to hit the forum ...and yes I mean ever.
Me waited to post on this topic because I thought my post might be too inflammatory, but what the hell.

Never have me been around a group of folks with such mediocre riding skillz, (and nothing wrong with that) who are so eager to tell other folks how to ride. Anyone who has been amongst a group of FJR riders has seen these things:

+ A pack of old men who are so wobbly on the bike, you wonder if they're going to hurt themselves and their scared to death pillion --before they get the kickstand up

+ A bunch of guys who want to take their keyboard jockey lectures to the road "ride like I tell you to ride" -as if not bad enough on the internet, they want wait to do it in person.

Often the latter is done under the guise of "Ride your own ride" When I hear that mantra, I know I'm in for some ****-munch to tell me how to ride. It often goes like this:

"Thanks for coming on today's geezerville ride everyone". As a point of safety, let's all "Ride your own ride" .....and before they can get those words out of their mouth they're laying out a shitload of expectation, on what is expected of the day. Usually this person can't ride worth a ****. Usually this person has a track record of stacking it up.

Me realize that motorcycle crashes can create a voyeuristic need in some of us. But for me, Me think I'll listen to the guys who don't crash. Me don't consider crashing a winning proposition, so why listen to proven losers when it comes to the crashing game --when they start on lectures on how to ride. It is these stack-up losers who are most-times leading the lectures.

Rich is a solid rider, I've logged a few miles with him, and I mean a few. Unfortunately it was not intimate, it was with a pack of other guyz and galz ...some of whom could ride and some who couldn't.

So Doc, come up to Reno ...let's go get phreaky on bikes and at the end of the day(s?) I bet we can log some miles, not stack up and have some good fun ....without ever uttering a word to each other on how something should have been done.

And yes, those of us who interview job candidates, we're trained as to how often interviewees use the word "I" ....which is why me replaced it with "me" in much of my rant.

Rock on Doc, .....the best post ever here on they interynet.

Gosh, your post is very interesting. I never thought about it like that before.

BTW, **** it if I use the pronoun “I.” Feel free to judge however you see fit, because to me, whatever device one deigns to use, most of what I’m reading is still first person.

I’ve seen talentless, inexperienced and immature riders on all kinds of motorcycles. Boasts, implied boasts, and **** measuring contests of all sorts, too. I'm not going to give unsolicited riding lessons, taking a cue from golf, in which a German friend reacted to someone trying to do the same to him on the golf course, in his gruff germanic accent: "If I want focking lesson, I focking pay for it! :angry: "

I don’t like large group rides primarily for safety reasons. Until this post, I haven’t publicly advertised it, but I’m pretty selective about who I ride with. Why? Because I am responsible for my own safety and for that of my pillion (and that includes exercising my judgment about the environment in which I ride). I’m also responsible for riding with due care so that I do not endanger anyone else. If you cut into what I think is my reasonable margin, I won’t lecture you, but I won’t ride with you, at least – not in the same group.

If I have an immature ****-munch pulling stunts like running up into my mirrors and past while goosing the throttle, dropping back, doing it again and again, so that I have to watch him with an inordinate amount of attention that should be better spent elsewhere, I’ll either drop back to sweep or further, or leave the ride altogether. Yeah, that’s happened (while in staggered formation before even getting to the twisties). That’s worse than the annoyance of someone who darts past at a stop sign or on a straight, just to park it in every corner with brake lights flashing, while showing me lousy lines and poor throttle control. Yep, that’s happened too. In each of the cases I’m thinking of, there was a pre-ride briefing/meeting/lecture/statement of expectations, but those riders apparently paid it no heed. :angry:

On the net, I have seen what I think you’re referring to as keyboard jockey lecturing, mostly when a discussion of some element of technique turns into said ****-munch pronouncing judgment with a condescending “holier than thou” approach. I agree – that’s really tiring and unnecessary. But what I guess I’ve been fortunate to miss is the same sort of thing on the road (in person). That is, unless you’re talking about the pre-ride briefing that is usually given by the person who organized the ride. I have no objection to that. Why?

Because in that context, it isn’t about your riding skill, how many miles you’ve logged, or your studliness. It’s about how you interact as a rider (safely, I hope) with the group, within which there are a variety of different skill sets, experience levels and maturity levels. (It is also typical for many of the riders in FJR group rides not to have ridden with some or all of the others.) I care about that because if you’re a ****-munch cutting into my safety margin, you’ve diminished my day. Fortunately, it is usually only that, because I’ll quickly drop out rather than allow you to cause worse. Some people will never get it, though, and by that, I’m certainly not suggesting that you have to be AMA expert rated or have hundreds of thousands of miles under your belt to be a safe and enjoyable motorcyclist to ride with.

Speaking of AMA experts and crashers, I don’t know if you remember Randy (BDAZ_XX) from the ‘05 Blackbird meet in Reno, who by his own admission, had crashed innumerable times on the track and a couple or three times on the road. I doubt I’ve ever ridden with a better rider, though. It was Randy giving the lectures on group rides for that meet and the one in Red Bluff the next year – I don’t recall Robin, Paulie, Howie or Jeff objecting; and if they didn’t, I sure don’t know how anyone amongst a pack of old men on FJRs should.

Yeah, I guess that when it comes to group rides, I have expectations, too.

BTW, if you’re looking for “intimate rides”, RJ, maybe you need to hit up Bust for a ride – ya just might learn something. :lol:

 

[wheatonFJR]

Does this mean I can't post up an area ride and give a pre-ride "be safe" briefing beforehand. I have two road rash incidents, so I guess I am now black balled from ever doing that again.

Riding alone...

ooops..I count 4 "I"s in the above...FAIL.

 

[exskibum]

Does this mean I can't post up an area ride and give a pre-ride "be safe" briefing beforehand. I have two road rash incidents, so I guess I am now black balled from ever doing that again.

Wheatie, if you have black balls, it's only a matter of time before they fall off. Best that you ride sweep.

 

[jmdaniel]

However, one must remember that opinions are like ********, we all have one and everyone else's stinks.

I know mine does from time to time, but my wife loves the Dutch Oven.

Well, one of us loves it; I get confused on who exactly does...

 

[RenoJohn]

Often the latter is done under the guise of "Ride your own ride" When I hear that mantra, I know I'm in for some ****-munch to tell me how to ride. It often goes like this:
"Thanks for coming on today's geezerville ride everyone". As a point of safety, let's all "Ride your own ride" .....and before they can get those words out of their mouth they're laying out a shitload of expectation, on what is expected of the day. Usually this person can't ride worth a ****. Usually this person has a track record of stacking it up.

Hm, I don't ever remember a group ride led by SkooterG.

me never heard skooter giving anyone lecture on how to ride ...and for his miles, I think his stack-up-record ain't too shabby.
Exski and I see things a bit different. I"m not concerned with the expectations he puts has on group rides. I look instead for a no lecture atmosphere and as far a the riders hitting the throttle, wheelies, naked, helmet-less ...don't really matter to me. In the FJR arena, those typically aren't the guys stacking up and leading safety lectures.

I say leave the lectures and crashing at home, something simple yet hard to do for many folks in this arena

....when on a ride, enjoy every mile, enjoy moto-bike fun and hit the throttle as you see fit. Or not, after all, it's your ride. Letting the stack-up-brigade and their lectures influence you --well for me I'll opt out and follow the winners when it comes to crashing, and those my friends, are the silent ones who don't.

I'd dare guess that whoever jacked the ol' doc up is one of these safety lecture nazi's who has a stack-up-record of his own and probably can't ride for ****.

BTW doc .....when do I have the honor of following your good moto-bike skillz on some groovy roads??

 

[exskibum]

I'd dare guess that whoever jacked the ol' doc up is one of these safety lecture nazi's who has a stack-up-record of his own and probably can't ride for ****.

:butcher:

OK, but there are a number of riders a hell of a lot more skilled than anyone here who have "stacked it up" and been maimed or killed -- I'm not gonna tempt the gods or risk my streak by invoking that kinda superiority. Maybe I just don't know WTF you and Rich are talking about, or missed something in all the group rides I haven't attended? But damn, RJ, after reading all that a third time to see if I missed some clues to humor, I can't help but wonder if several forum members have offended you directly. Or is the helmet just a little tight today?

I guess we do have different expectations when riding with groups. I mostly don't give a rat's ass what anyone does while "riding their own ride", so long as it doesn't endanger or interfere with others. I'd rather not have an outing darkened or interrupted by anyone's accident, but I guess I'll agree that pre-ride talking points probably won't make, and haven't made a difference to those predisposed to stupidity, emotional immaturity or to riding beyond their skill level. I guess I figured listening to a pre-ride briefing didn't hurt, but you're right -- for those of us who already know everything and ride better'n everyone else, it IS an affront. :lol:

BTW, I'm sporting 10 inches here at my keyboard. B) Sounds like you've got 16 or more! I hear there's a length beyond which it's not fun for the other participant(s) though?

 

[beemerdons]

Only motorcycle riding lecture I've bothered to really listen to was from my friend Arlo, as we were sitting on the GroupW bench. Oh, and I listened to Reg Pridmore!!!

The Motorcycle Song

words and music by Arlo Guthrie

CHORUS:

I don't want a pickle

Just want to ride on my motorsickle

And I don't want a tickle

'Cause I'd rather ride on my motorsickle

And I don't want to die

Just want to ride on my motorcy...cle

It was late last night the other day

I thought I'd go up and see FJRay

So l went up and I saw FJRay

There was only one thing FJRay could say, was:

CHORUS

This song is about the time that I was ridin' my motorcycle.

Going down a mountain road, at 150 miles an hour, playin'

my guitar. On one side of the mountain road there was a

mountain, and on the other side there was nothin' - there was

a cliff in the air.

Now, when you're going down a mountain road at I50 miles

an hour you gotta be very careful, especially if you're playin'

a guitar. Especially if that guitar is an acoustic guitar.

Because if it's an acoustic guitar, the wind pressure is greater

on the box side than on the neck side, because there's

more guitar on the box side. I wasn't payin' attention ..

Luckily I didn't go into the mountain - I went over the cliff.

I was goin' at 150 miles an hour sideways and 500 feet down

at the same time.

I knew it was the end. I looked down, I said ''Wow! Some

trip". I thought it...well I knew it was...I knew it was my last

trip, and in my last remaining seconds in world,I decided

to write one last farewell song to the world.

Put a new ink cartridge in my pen. Took out a piece of paper.

I sat back and I thought awhile. Then I started writin':

I don't want a pickle

Just want to ride on my motorsickle

And I don't want a tickle

'Cause I'd rather ride on my motorsickle

And I don't want to die

Just want to ride on my motorcy ...cle."

I knew that, it wasn't the best song l ever wrote, but I didn't

have time to change it. I was comin' down mighty fast.

But as you all know, and as fate would have it, I didn't die. I

landed on the top of a police car. And he died. I drove away

on the road that he was on. I came into town at a screamin'

175 miles an hour, playin' the motorcycle song.

I came into town, I jumped off my bike, the bike went around

the corner by itself, went up on the stand by itself, turned

itself off.

I walked over to my friend. He was standin' there eatin'

pickles. I said "Hi, what's happenin'?" He looked at me in the

eye and said "Nothin'".

You gotta sing it with that kind of enthusiasm. Like you just

squashed a cop...

CHORUS

©1968,1969 Appleseed Music Inc. (ASCAP)

 

[exskibum]

Don, I saw Arlo at UNR back in the day -- from the old gym's basketball floor, maybe 10 feet in front of him, first row, to the extent there were rows. That song and Coming Into Los Angeles where gut busters with all his improvisation. Great entertainer and funny as hell. Good advice to live by in both songs, BTW.

 

[dcarver]

My curiosity tweaks me.

..what set Dr. Rich off?

..why is RenoJohn so sensitive to this blather? What trips the trigger?

..why does exskii eloquently pontificate over a dead horse issue?

Folks, there is no solution here. Move on.

As long as riders ride, peeps will attempt to impregnate their riding mantas into your Psyche.

Whether it penetrates (bothers, annoys, is receptive) is up to you.

Personally, I love RenoJohn's "I'm on the bike, it will be all right" attitude.

And I love MadMikes "Don't screw up" talk at pre-ride tailboard, for example.

And I will forcibly exlcude idiots from any ride I'm leading. No quarter nor apoligies.

Now that I've got this thread straightened out, let me tell you that -

Any of you who don't ride like me are fools

Group rides are for suckers

Ride Right To Stay Alive

Ride Left to Avoid Rocks

Ride the Center to preserve tire life

Ride naked in the rain to save quarters at the dryer for the Laundromat later..

oh, :****: You are welcome.

Jeesh, I have to fix *everything* on this forum!

now then just go ride

(but do it my way, I just took a class :rofl: )

 

[madmike2]

And I love MadMikes "Don't screw up" talk at pre-ride tailboard, for example. And I will forcibly exlcude idiots from any ride I'm leading. No quarter nor apoligies.

Yebbut....

...according to RJ's guidelines I've been disqualified, so REJECTED!

Soooo, y'all are safe to do whatever you want. However, like Rich, I may soon be absent from that ride.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I enjoy cake...

 

[RenoJohn]

Maybe I just don't know WTF you and Rich are talking about, -

most likely

or missed something in all the group rides I haven't attended? But damn, RJ, after reading all that a third time to see if I missed some clues to humor, I can't help but wonder if several forum members have offended you directly. Or is the helmet just a little tight today?

Helmet ain't tight, just taking solidarity with the doc over the stack-it-up lecture brigade who instead of setting an example of good moto-bike fun, give self righteous lip service, and Rich most of these guys are the ones that should be observing and not talking.

I'd dare say whoever got the doc's panties in a wad could use some miles behind the doctor learning instead of giving the lip service. You can defend that type, it's your prerogative, I'm not good at coloring inside the lines and will speak my mind, especially when it comes to what I consider a 'cancer to the fun' that can be had on moto-bikes.

BTW, I'm sporting 10 inches here at my keyboard. B) Sounds like you've got 16 or more! I hear there's a length beyond which it's not fun for the other participant(s) though?

It's all fun I guess, but from the tone of the doc's email, I think he's lost it (the fun) with this group, and I can speculate why from my experiences -
Simply put Rich ....look at the XX guys, ....riding not talking, at least from my experiences. I loved riding with those guys and got my head handed to me by a few of them. ..but it was solid riding and no lectures or condescending attitudes. I wish we saw that with more of this group ...and I think the doc's post shows we've got a long ways to go.

It's too bad, as the doc had some very solid skillz, many could learn from them. But, my guess from reading his post is that he's D U N (done), ...and what a shame for moto-bike fun. ..the wrong guys won, and the cancer will spread.

peace out from reno ...john

 

[exskibum]

peace out from reno ...john

Same to you sir. I hope Rich isn't done, at least, I sure didn't read it that way. I think he's probably laughing at where this went, having cryptically said as much as he was going to say for diplomatic purposes. He's signed up for WCR next September, so along with some other good riders that I know are going, I believe we'll be having lotsa moto fun together. I KNOW I will.

Yes, many of those XX riders were a hoot, and while there were some less than stellar riders in that group, just like on any bike, some were well beyond where I will ever get to. One thing's for sure --- they could certainly out drink the FJR crowd, notwithstanding your and Fairlaner's contributions to the mean. :lol:

BTW, I'm not so much defending those who shouldn't be defended, or even being diplomatic -- it's really just that I'm superstitious. After all, my last get off was on a Z1 while wearing polyester dress slacks -- so I tend to respect my superstitions.

 

[RenoJohn]

peace out from reno ...john

Same to you sir. I hope Rich isn't done, at least, I sure didn't read it that way. I think he's probably laughing at where this went, having cryptically said as much as he was going to say for diplomatic purposes. He's signed up for WCR next September, so along with some other good riders that I know are going, I believe we'll be having lotsa moto fun together. I KNOW I will.

Yes, many of those XX riders were a hoot, and while there were some less than stellar riders in that group, just like on any bike, some were well beyond where I will ever get to. One thing's for sure --- they could certainly out drink the FJR crowd, notwithstanding your and Fairlaner's contributions to the mean. :lol:

BTW, I'm not so much defending those who shouldn't be defended, or even being diplomatic -- it's really just that I'm superstitious. After all, my last get off was on a Z1 while wearing polyester dress slacks -- so I tend to respect my superstitions.

Ah what the ****, I'm leaving early in the morning and have no more time for this so here it goes, ...I'm going to let it rip:

I don't know who pissed the doc off, ...but the old grumpy codger likely had that plus a kick in the ass coming his way. 'bout time somebody layed into him and made him go home thinkin' about stuff. maybe he'll quit being such an old-man and get a bit more phreaky now and then.

He should get another kick in the ass for posting this thread, making bust-a-nut tell us more than we needed to know .....and yet a third kick in the ass from me ...for having to work so hard to make people feel sorry for him in my attempts to get this thread back on topic. (although it was kinda fun calling the stacker-upper safety brigade a bunch of *****)

I don't know the doc well enough to have an opinion of him personally, but no reason to dislike him and I truly believe he likely has some valid points behind his rant. I'm sorry to see that. I do know that the doc is a strong and smart rider, ....and we can always use them, and should guard and defend them, as we all know, they are the exception.

As far a madMikeyII goes .....get your ass up to reno sometime soon so I can lecture you on how to keep exskibum in line .....

 

[Bustanut joker]

Oh for crissakes! I get me ass violated fer sayin Cake is good?

Tell ya what, Pie sucks sea cow spawn..

An as fer ya workin hard at keepin it on track RJ? Masturbation works bedder.. :lol:

This, like all threads like it, are subjective and honestly I don't ever believe you are going to find a consensus... JMHO

it''s been informative mind ya's but.............................................

I'm going to find me a Holiday inn express, an just lay naked for a few days..

:finger:

:jester:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Viva la difference.

In the history of The Isle of Man T.T., there was (in the '20s) this guy, Freddie Dixon, who defied convention and 'rode his own ride'. He rode in an unconventional style; he modified his motorcycles differently than other racers (more like touring bikes) and he hated eye protection (when race rules forced him to wear goggles, he removed the lenses). But, he could ride and won races -- against some of the world's best.

California's own 'King' Kenny Roberts shocked the European road-racing establishment by 'hanging off' the bike and putting his inside knee to the tarmac. How unconventional -- but, the results speak.

These guys may have passed on double-yellow? They may have scoffed at arbitrary speed limit signs? After all, the highways were designed and controlled for the majority -- four-wheeled vehicles. But, any riding info they might've deigned to bestow -- I, for one, would want to hear it. I might choose to discard it -- my choice -- but given their abilities, there's probably some merit?

There will always be someone better/faster -- the goal (at least for me) is to satisfy my abilities for the time and place.

Motorcycles have been around for about a century and, in that time, have earned a general reputation (deserved or not) for speed and performance. Riding one well requires enhanced abilities not usually found/practiced in the everyday milieu.

Given all of the above: doesn't it stand that there's alot to be gained from sharing information? Especially about a skill so hard-won as riding well? To do the opposite (arbitrarily curtail your riding ablities) seems counter-productive.

I may be reading this all wrong?

But without any further dialogue from the chief protagonists -- we're all 'riding blind' (as it were...).