Do you use the clutch when you upshift?

[Scythian]

I don't know why I wouldn't use the clutch....

I like to use the clutch.

 

[teerex51]

I don't know why I wouldn't use the clutch....
I like to use the clutch.

Ditto.

I paid for the f***ing thing and I'll use it as much as I can :angry2:

Stef

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I use the clutch.

 

[FJRMGM]

this thread is in danger of being cast away to the N.E.P.R.T. forum.

 

[jestal]

edit due to political content

 

[wheatonFJR]

I'm not sure I understand...could you give it another try?

j/k

 

[Mike-H]

Bottom line....WHO CARES :huh: ?....run whatcha ya brung, ride the way you like, & do what works for you, not anyone else :good: ....just enjoy it :yahoo: .....

 

[mdisher]

<snip>

Thanks Jestal, that was a LOT to type or write. It's also IMHO far to hard for the average person, specially some of the folks here so I'll summarize for those with less patience

* Keep in mind that "constant mesh" has nothing to do with clutchless shifting on a bike transmission.

* The shift dogs are what disengage and engage to effect the shift and they are obviously not "constant mesh". ycle applications.

* Motorcycle transmissions are a totally different animal from automotive transmissions in passenger cars.

* Motorcycle dog style gear boxes, however, are not really designed to be in a "neutral" position between gears.

* Just blip the throttle and pull the lever and the shift dogs will jump from one set of slots to the adjacent set of slots very easily.

* Practice, it's not hard.

* It does take a bit of practice and "feel" to accomplish and some people will never be able to do it (they likely cannot walk and chew gum either.....) which is why manuals and "experts" tell you to always use the clutch.

* Air Shifters are cool, they shift fast as shit, and are easier on the tranny than just regular clutchless shifting cause when installed properly it kills the power for a second. This should be standard issue on all FJR's and bikes really.

* Motocross racers NEVER use the clutch. (Well almost never, we use them to get started and in a few particular Oh Shit moments, but usually never is accurate).

* preload is over rated.

* I don't think it is any big deal whether people elect to use the clutch or not on shifts on a motorcycle. Within practical reason you are not likely to ever wear anything out in two or three lifetimes of riding either way.

 

[squeezer]

Wow, jestal, that was awesome. Thanks!

I think I noted a typo in one place, though. Would you please fix it?

( )

 

[jestal]

Fixed. And thanks for the Cliff Notes version. Some people just want to know.......and others want to know why and how and when and what......

 

[Mike-H]

Fixed. And thanks for the Cliff Notes version. Some people just want to know.......and others want to know why and how and when and what......

Good thing the best answered him then :good: ....when in doubt, he is the man to ask....he is "Engineering Man" :superman: .....(or just "jestal" to those in the know)

 

[weekend rider]

If it is wrong or hurts your poor tranny, Then how can all the truckers be wrong for doing it all those years of up shift than down shift, than up than down than up than down.................

I doo both weekend rider

 

[jeremybhm]

More than you ever wanted to know about motorcycle transmissions......................

You never know what your gonna learn when you click "View New Posts"

Thanks for the write up... That was very educational.

 

[Midlifefjr]

Another awesome pearl - gave it a try today and was amazed at how smooth and easy it is - great tip guys :lol:

 

[mcatrophy]

More than you ever wanted to know about motorcycle transmissions......................

Jestal -

Ignore the comments of the ignorant who wish to remain so .

Your info helps explains why, for those of us with the electric gear-change, the best up-shift occurs with just a very slight throttle blip. You've also given me thoughts to try to improve my down-shifting, so from me at least, thanks.

 

[FJRMGM]

I forgot to add this but I have the R1 shifter linkage mod on my '05 FJR and it does shift easier with it so the clutchless shifting is as easy and smooth as buttah.

And Jestal, after that concise summary above, I'm kinda afraid to ask but "what time is it?"

Lets see what kind of response that gets.. :lol:

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[ponyfool]

I was gonna say the same thing Jestal said...... but I'm more of a "I know how" type rather than a "I know why" type, so if I'd have explained it, it would have looked unintelligible.

 

[drewvanracer]

Jestal, I made a copy of that explanation to sell my friends. If they won’t listen to me maybe they will listen to you.

Thanks again.

PS Could you explain how I can keep my wife happy?

 

[RenoJohn]

It does take a bit of practice and "feel" to accomplish and some people will never be able to do it (they likely cannot walk and chew gum either.....) which is why manuals and "experts" tell you to always use the clutch.

Typically once people see how much smoother they are they start to incorporate it. Those of us with dirt background are more typically the ones who do it on a regular basis IMO.

The shift forks that move the dogs are moved by a pin riding in a cam like groove in the shift drum. That is the only reason I disagree with some of the conventional advice to preload the lever and then blip the throttle. While you are "preloading" the lever there is a LOT of load on the shift forks, the (stationary) forks are pressed against the moving/rotating shift dog and the cam slot is pressing hard on the pin to try and move the shift fork sideways. I really don't condone much "preloading" of the shift lever on a regular basis because you can start to see worn shift forks and dents brinnelled into the cam slot of the shift drum. Preloading the lever and then blipping the throttle is a good way to introduce someone to clutchless shifting but start to learn to simultaneously flick the shift lever as you blip the throttle to minimize load on the shift drum and shift forks.

Interesting, I'll have to make a contious effort to see "how much" preloading I'm doing. I know that I'm putting just a "little" pressure. Not sure if i'm doing this for "insurance" for a smooth shift, or to help engage the shifter ....or perhaps just habbit. I don't put any real pressure, but I am preloading most of the time. I will certainly make a contious effort and re-visit this. !Thanks!

Even "clutch" users will find that they don't totally disengage the clutch on every shift and that they don't let the RPM drop/raise much at all between shifts....or it isn't going to be smooth.

Yes, many guys that shift real smooth don't realize that they could have done that without pulling in the clutch, but pulling in the clutch is hard-wired into their routine. No harm, builds the left hand muscles

Downshifting, however, is a bit tougher as you still have to unload the gear by releasing the throttle a bit but then it needs a serious shot of positive throttle to get the RPM up HIGHER than it was to match the next speed. You can make the downshifts no problem but they will not be nearly as smooth most of the time and you really risk momentarily locking the rear tire which is not desireable at all especially in a corner. I find it much smoother on downshifts to pretty much keep the throttle constant (steady wrist) and unload the gear dogs by tagging the clutch lever......this lets the RPM zing up a bit which matches the gear shift almost perfectly if you do it right. You need to develop the feel for just how much throttle to have to hold constant when you tag the clutch just as you depress the shift lever but it is a much cleaner way of down shifting IMO than just doing it witout the clutch on a street bike.

I'm personally not nearly as proficient downshifting. (that walking and chewing gum thing you mention LOL) I found myslef doing less and less as my primary rides became FI and not curburated. I attibute that to throttle control variances of the FI bikes ..not sure real or imagined but I do it much less than i use to.

More than you ever wanted to know about motorcycle transmissions......................

LOL, not really, a fantastic and informative read. Thanks